Anyone regret doing a Cummins swap?

[YotaAtieToo]

Brakes can get better with modern axle brake stuff. Idk if you can put bigger calipers/rotors on or have to swap the axles entirely but I imagine there’s upgrades.

Oh I know.

Hydroboost was a big help. But doesn't do anything for brake fade.

I grabbed that F550 beam axle from you with plans to put those knuckles on my c's.

14.5" rotors are larger than a 16 F350.

Just not sure if they will clear 18s as I don't really want 20s.

Also kinda want to keep my alcoas

There is also the dodge rotors and later model ford calipers like TrailTamer did. Keeps my live spindle and 8x6.5.

Part of me wants to keep adding mods to make it tow better, but realistically, it's fine for these random projects anyway. I'm more tempted to level the front with ome leafs, possibly better rear leafs, air bags, rear locker, maybe winch bumper and 35-37s. Make it more of an adventure rig with the camper. Still capable of towing.

 

[TrailTamer]

It will pull a lot harder than the 7.3, but for such a short burst.

Governor spring kit will fix that

There is also the dodge rotors and later model ford calipers like @TrailTamer did. Keeps my live spindle and 8x6.5.

I did but I had to turn down its outer diameter as the caliper did not clear. And clearanced caliper bracket to clear rotor’s “hat”… I need to find a different caliper/bracket to try again to use rotors and caliper brackets as-is off the shelf.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Governor spring kit will fix that

Have a 4k kit in the box.

I did but I had to turn down its outer diameter as the caliper did not clear. And clearanced caliper bracket to clear rotor’s “hat”… I need to find a different caliper/bracket to try again to use rotors and caliper brackets as-is off the shelf.

Caliper bracket? As in the 2 tabs cast into the knuckle? Or the pice that the caliper slides on?

 

[TrailTamer]

Caliper bracket? As in the 2 tabs cast into the knuckle? Or the pice that the caliper slides on?

 

[350TacoZilla]

Makes sense that it feels about the same considering the PS had more power stock and that higher rpm range. The thing that I'm sure you know by now is the cummins can be turned up pretty quick with simple fuel plate since you already have an upgraded turbo. I'm not talking big coal rolling, just a adjustable plate for a bump in power. Could also bump up the governor springs a bit without going wild. Again I know this is all stuff you already mentioned

97 7.3- 225hp@3000rpm \ 450ft.lbs@2000rpm
97 5.9- 180hp@2700rpm \ 420ft.lbs@1500rpm

 

[06h3]

Makes sense that it feels about the same considering the PS had more power stock and that higher rpm range. The thing that I'm sure you know by now is the cummins can be turned up pretty quick with simple fuel plate since you already have an upgraded turbo. I'm not talking big coal rolling, just a adjustable plate for a bump in power. Could also bump up the governor springs a bit without going wild. Again I know this is all stuff you already mentioned

97 7.3- 225hp@3000rpm \ 450ft.lbs@2000rpm
97 5.9- 180hp@2700rpm \ 420ft.lbs@1500rpm

I always chuckled how the 7.3 got the bad rap for being a slow turd but the 7.3 had better power #'s then a cummins stock.

I get you can turn a cummins up easier than a 7.3 but it is still interesting how it got the bad rap.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Makes sense that it feels about the same considering the PS had more power stock and that higher rpm range. The thing that I'm sure you know by now is the cummins can be turned up pretty quick with simple fuel plate since you already have an upgraded turbo. I'm not talking big coal rolling, just a adjustable plate for a bump in power. Could also bump up the governor springs a bit without going wild. Again I know this is all stuff you already mentioned

97 7.3- 225hp@3000rpm \ 450ft.lbs@2000rpm
97 5.9- 180hp@2700rpm \ 420ft.lbs@1500rpm

My 7.3 had the typical mods, chip, exhaust, i/C, ect. But also 350k miles.

I'm not positive this 12v hasn't been messed with, it will blow more smoke than I would think a bone stock 12v would.

But ya I have a #0 plate and 4k springs, just haven't messed with it yet.

I always chuckled how the 7.3 got the bad rap for being a slow turd but the 7.3 had better power #'s then a cummins stock.

I get you can turn a cummins up easier than a 7.3 but it is still interesting how it got the bad rap.

Well 2 reasons imo.

7.3 makes it's power higher and the obs turbo doesn't spool for shit. Most guys aren't going to ring out a diesel to 3200-3500.

12v is so easy to turn up, I'd bet most have been tweeked at least a little bit.

That being said, the absolute slowest vehicle I've ever been in, including semi's, was my buddies 91.5 cummins. Giant laggy turbo, and i/C. You'd floor it just to try and keep up with normal traffic acceleration.

 

[Levigarrett76]

That being said, the absolute slowest vehicle I've ever been in, including semi's, was my buddies 91.5 cummins. Giant laggy turbo, and i/C. You'd floor it just to try and keep up with normal traffic acceleration.

Same here, it was a 90', felt as slow as my ol 87 6.9 worn the fuck out idi non turbo with heavy 38 tsls on double beadlocks.

Made an 89 f150 with 4.9 feel like an ecoboost

 

[pcorssmit]

97 5.9- 180hp@2700rpm \ 420ft.lbs@1500rpm

It's been a long time, but I didn't think the motors in the auto trucks would even rev that high. My ''97 had the 215hp motor (manual); it would rev to 3k tops but it started defueling long before you got there. It was a turd stock, but I had no intentions of leaving it that way when I bought it.

Definitely do the governor springs, they make a big difference in drivability without compromising reliability for the rest of the drivetrain. Of course I'd recommend the rest of the typical mods, too. I did the #10 plate & boost elbow first (and a clutch), eventually did the 4k GSK, bumped the timing a bit, 5 x .012" injectors, and a mechanically controlled HE351VE turbo.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Same here, it was a 90', felt as slow as my ol 87 6.9 worn the fuck out idi non turbo with heavy 38 tsls on double beadlocks.

Made an 89 f150 with 4.9 feel like an ecoboost

That's really funny because at the same time another buddy had an 80s 400k+ mile na 6.9 four-speed truck on 38s that would absolutely blow the doors off that first gen Cummins empty but it was turned up.

 

[350TacoZilla]

I think alot of people didn't really compare the 12v to PS in their heads, they compared the "new" 12v to the "old" IDI motors. Personally my parent's always had big block gas trucks growing up then they landed a sweet deal on a barely used 94 ram in 95 I think and it was a completely different experience to towing with a gas motor or the old 6.2GM,6.9-7.3Ford IDI's that we had access to before. I have made no secret of my love for the 6.2-6.5's and have been gathering parts for a build here forever but I haven't drank enough kool aid to say its a better motor than the 5.9 cummins. I will say stock for stock that RPM and gearing thing can help the 6.5's feel pretty decent towing but again nothing like a modded 12v

just for giggles here I'll add the chevy.
97 7.3- 225hp@3000rpm \ 450ft.lbs@2000rpm
97 5.9- 180hp@2700rpm \ 420ft.lbs@1500rpm
97 6.5- 215hp@3200rpm \ 440ft.lbs@1800rpm

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I think alot of people didn't really compare the 12v to PS in their heads, they compared the "new" 12v to the "old" IDI motors. Personally my parent's always had big block gas trucks growing up then they landed a sweet deal on a barely used 94 ram in 95 I think and it was a completely different experience to towing with a gas motor or the old 6.2GM,6.9-7.3Ford IDI's that we had access to before. I have made no secret of my love for the 6.2-6.5's and have been gathering parts for a build here forever but I haven't drank enough kool aid to say its a better motor than the 5.9 cummins. I will say stock for stock that RPM and gearing thing can help the 6.5's feel pretty decent towing but again nothing like a modded 12v

just for giggles here I'll add the chevy.
97 7.3- 225hp@3000rpm \ 450ft.lbs@2000rpm
97 5.9- 180hp@2700rpm \ 420ft.lbs@1500rpm
97 6.5- 215hp@3200rpm \ 440ft.lbs@1800rpm

Either way, I think most opinions are biased one way or another.

Another example was a buddy who worked at a place with a 24v/5speed and 7.3/6speed about 15 years ago. We both figured "hur dur cummins will tow way better" they were hauling skid steers at 5kish feet. After a while he said they were basically the same, the 24v had a little more grunt but the 6 speed was better splits.

Also, mine is a 95 auto originally, so only 160hp

I need to get the tach hooked up...

 

[TrailTamer]

I took my truck to sand dunes and drag raced a hot rodded 7.3 PSD super duty (99-02) reg cab truck. I won the half time. He asked what tuner I had in my truck. What tuner?

All I had was governor spring kit, in-op waste gate, ground fuel plate and minor timing advance. Bone stock 200k auto trans even.

I drove my truck 100% stock for like a year. It was a total turd in acceleration department. So bad I had to take that in consideration before pulling into traffic. Those mods solved that.

Granted they pull well at speed, just not as peppy and no neck snapping acceleration.

 

[350TacoZilla]

Ah I thought you said the guy put a 97 motor into the 95 ram before you got it so it would be the higher HP. We have had 12v P-pump, vp44 24v, 7.3PSD, 6.0PSD, Common rail 5.9, Common rail 6.7 All with manuals and autos other than the 6.7 (my dads newest truck) I definitely like the ZF6 trans over NV4500-5600, the G56 isn't bad but I would still give the edge to ZF6. Perfect world I guess would be a P-pump 24v ZF6 or maybe just HO common rail with the ZF6. I think the thing with my family is we use what works not any 1 particular brand, gas motors we were always chevy but then started buying the 2nd gen ram 5.9 and 8.0v10 to pull trailers along with the diesels just because we liked the chassis better than the GM stuff. Then I have had GMT400-800 suburbans gas and diesel so bit of everything. One combo I would love to get my hands on is the last year V10 with 6spd. Never got to drive one and missed out on one at a dealership by a day.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I took my truck to sand dunes and drag raced a hot rodded 7.3 PSD super duty (99-02) reg cab truck. I won the half time. He asked what tuner I had in my truck. What tuner?

Ya, the 12v and 24v cummins has way more power potential with just "tuning" 7.3s need injectors to make more than about 100hp over stock.

All I had was governor spring kit, in-op waste gate, ground fuel plate and minor timing advance. Bone stock 200k auto trans even.

I drove my truck 100% stock for like a year. It was a total turd in acceleration department. So bad I had to take that in consideration before pulling into traffic. Those mods solved that.

Granted they pull well at speed, just not as peppy and no neck snapping acceleration.

Ah I thought you said the guy put a 97 motor into the 95 ram before you got it so it would be the higher HP.

Good memory, it was the trans though, not engine.

We have had 12v P-pump, vp44 24v, 7.3PSD, 6.0PSD, Common rail 5.9, Common rail 6.7 All with manuals and autos other than the 6.7 (my dads newest truck) I definitely like the ZF6 trans over NV4500-5600, the G56 isn't bad but I would still give the edge to ZF6. Perfect world I guess would be a P-pump 24v ZF6 or maybe just HO common rail with the ZF6. I think the thing with my family is we use what works not any 1 particular brand, gas motors we were always chevy but then started buying the 2nd gen ram 5.9 and 8.0v10 to pull trailers along with the diesels just because we liked the chassis better than the GM stuff. Then I have had GMT400-800 suburbans gas and diesel so bit of everything. One combo I would love to get my hands on is the last year V10 with 6spd. Never got to drive one and missed out on one at a dealership by a day.

I have very little time behind any of the 6 speeds, driven them all, but just very little.

I can agree the nv5600 isn't the most enjoyable to drive, but the zf6 can be similar in that it just doesn't always shift super smooth.

I'm totally fine with the zf5 and had a ton of confidence in it strength wise until I read someone say the zf5 doesn't like the vibration of the 12v? Then after towing with it, it does seem like there is a wierd vibration under load?

Also, my carpet isn't perfect around the shifter, so I may just be hearing things I couldn't before.

 

[Alexis700]

I had a 24v dodge with a nv5600 for a while , with a ceramic double disk southbend clutch in it which was basically an on off switch. The worst part about that truck was that the nv5600 just didnt shift nice , no fun at all for driving around empty.

I daily a 01 24v with a nv4500, the 4500 is just way nicer to drive if your empty or pulling moderate weight. Really the only time I would want the 5600 is if you are pulling heavy enough that the 3 4 split is an issue.

Now with the p pump engine , if you are driving one with stock gov springs and a manual that is a worthless setup. I install gov springs immediately, 3k is fine. Then you can shift out of 3rd at 2800 and land in 4th right at 1800. With stock gov springs and a nv4500 , its only gonna pull to like 2200 2400 , then when you get into 4th its at like 1200 rpms , that just doesnt work if you are hauling anything.

Governor springs in a manual p pump truck is mandatory in my opinion. It is a completely different truck from that mod alone. Then fuel plate , injectors, double disk, 62mm turbo, head studs, timing , list goes on $$$

 

[YotaAtieToo]

That's one advantage the zf5 has over the 4500, much closer gear spread.

 

[Burns]

I had a 24v dodge with a nv5600 for a while , with a ceramic double disk southbend clutch in it which was basically an on off switch. The worst part about that truck was that the nv5600 just didnt shift nice , no fun at all for driving around empty.

I daily a 01 24v with a nv4500, the 4500 is just way nicer to drive if your empty or pulling moderate weight. Really the only time I would want the 5600 is if you are pulling heavy enough that the 3 4 split is an issue.

Now with the p pump engine , if you are driving one with stock gov springs and a manual that is a worthless setup. I install gov springs immediately, 3k is fine. Then you can shift out of 3rd at 2800 and land in 4th right at 1800. With stock gov springs and a nv4500 , its only gonna pull to like 2200 2400 , then when you get into 4th its at like 1200 rpms , that just doesnt work if you are hauling anything.

Governor springs in a manual p pump truck is mandatory in my opinion. It is a completely different truck from that mod alone. Then fuel plate , injectors, double disk, 62mm turbo, head studs, timing , list goes on $$$

I can confirm that with a 12valve, fuel plate, worked pump, injectors, head studs, dual disc.....this nails it......but a 64mm turbo is a little much. Its sweet for mashing the throttle and smoking out a city block, but towing its not all that happy. The ZF6, with its big jumps between gears, loses all boost so basically you pick a gear and stick with it or shift and then work to build up all that pressure again.

Open to recommendations for turbos :)

Currently have 5x.014 injectors, Borq SX364, and a Farrell 215hp worked pump that flows 620cc

 

[06h3]

While it isnt a cummins I have a 7.3 with a BW SXE364 like you do and I feel it is laggy down low. It wakes up at 2200 rpm and is really happy at 2500 rpm plus

I am so close to pulling the trigger on the DPS turbonators. I bet a VGT will make things happier. Reviews on it are good if you can find them through the bullshit marketing crap from DPS. I have seen one fail, but it seems like it's almost perfect.

 

[slow600]

this is supposed to be the cats meow to spool an sxe, but i have no first world experience

S300 Villain turbine housing s362 s363 s366 s369 s372

Turbine Housing kit Only. complete with everything you need. works with the s300 68 turbine only. i can machine it too larger sizes for a...

instaspoolperformance.bigcartel.com

 

[06h3]

this is supposed to be the cats meow to spool an sxe, but i have no first world experience

S300 Villain turbine housing s362 s363 s366 s369 s372

Turbine Housing kit Only. complete with everything you need. works with the s300 68 turbine only. i can machine it too larger sizes for a...

instaspoolperformance.bigcartel.com

I take it this is still a fixed turbo and not a VGT but is much more efficient?

 

[slow600]

correct, smaller exh housing and supposedly more efficient. its on my want list

 

[Alexis700]

I am gonna do a Diesel Auto Power , borg 62/65/12 on the 24 valve for when it gets turned up. That truck is running edge comp, DDP 150s and a hx35, its perfect now. Tows awesome and roasts the 37s in 3rd if you hit an expansion joint when merging, kinda annoying when it does that cause Im trying to speed up not leave rubber on the road.

62/65/12 is a tight exhaust housing and turbine wheel but about the best option for a towing single. Once you get into a 68mm or larger turbine or bigger than 12cm3 exhaust housing the lag becomes an issue for a truck that tows.

The 62/65/12 has been around for a long time , and honestly in a manual truck will feel stronger on the street than say a 64/68 because of how fast and hard it will spool. Going to give up top end power and egts will be higher on top, but it will hold lower egts when crusing on highway whereas a big single wont be moving any air at cruise.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

While it isnt a cummins I have a 7.3 with a BW SXE364 like you do and I feel it is laggy down low. It wakes up at 2200 rpm and is really happy at 2500 rpm plus

I am so close to pulling the trigger on the DPS turbonators. I bet a VGT will make things happier. Reviews on it are good if you can find them through the bullshit marketing crap from DPS. I have seen one fail, but it seems like it's almost perfect.

With an auto that mostly does longer trips, are you sure you want to give up top end egts for less lag?

Vgt should be the best of both worlds

back woods runs a vgt on a 7.3 and likes it.

 

[Burns]

While it isnt a cummins I have a 7.3 with a BW SXE364 like you do and I feel it is laggy down low. It wakes up at 2200 rpm and is really happy at 2500 rpm plus

I am so close to pulling the trigger on the DPS turbonators. I bet a VGT will make things happier. Reviews on it are good if you can find them through the bullshit marketing crap from DPS. I have seen one fail, but it seems like it's almost perfect.

We are definitely on the same page. 2200 shes starts coming alive, 2500 and up kicks absolute ass. Below that isnt bad...its just not good

I read about the DPS Turbonators, and the Villain housing. From a price point, Im super interested in the Villains, as Ive like what I have but know it could be better...and dont want to drop a pissload more coin.

 

[Burns]

this is supposed to be the cats meow to spool an sxe, but i have no first world experience

S300 Villain turbine housing s362 s363 s366 s369 s372

Turbine Housing kit Only. complete with everything you need. works with the s300 68 turbine only. i can machine it too larger sizes for a...

instaspoolperformance.bigcartel.com

Have you spoken with anyone who has real world/hands on experience with one of these? Id be super curious how it effects/changes spool time on the sx364. I haven't googled it yet, but will probably do some reading/clicking around this weekend to see what I can dig up for info. Id call and chat with them but fear I dont know enough to dive into convo with dudes who do hardcore turbo stuff.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Has anyone gone directly from an He351cw to an s300? I'd be curious what the actual gain is.

 

[Levigarrett76]

Has anyone gone directly from an He351cw to an s300? I'd be curious what the actual gain is.

I did on a 2007 5.9 in a 3500 drw , 62/65-12 on a 2nd gen manifold with helix 2 cam g56 6 speed

Spooled a little slower, egts got up to 1000-1100 faster but then held below danger zone much better. Tuning was efilive ppei iirc

 

[06h3]

With an auto that mostly does longer trips, are you sure you want to give up top end egts for less lag?

Vgt should be the best of both worlds

back woods runs a vgt on a 7.3 and likes it.

No, I don’t want to give it up. I just want it all and not spend too much money getting it all

 

[[486]]

so take it loose, turn your key on, and push it in and see if it stays.
I've had to adjust mine a few times. take the two top mount bolts loose, and make sure its not sticking up above the mount with it turned on and not screwed down.

don't they usually have a pull in and a hold in coil
pull in is usually on the starter solenoid (maybe the I terminal if you've got one) and hold in is ign hot