Amphibious HEMTT

[WaterH]

One possible solution. Fit two of the truck/trailer height control valves at different ride heights and run a pneumatic switch to select between them.

On-road, off-road and vent (slammed) would be pretty easy.

You realize to do what you’re suggesting would require 8 of those valves and it would be a maze of plumbing.

This is the best solution.

My biggest complaint is in the morning the truck is not like it was the night before. (Because of leaks) I admit it would be cool to just hit a switch and it be at a desired ride height, but that’s not really a complaint. Those height control valves would only work when there was pressure in the tank, so if I want the truck to be correct when it sits for two days, (or a week) I would need to leave the compressor on.

Whatever I do, I need to fix the leaks. I changed the 4 push connect fittings last night. I’m hope for a pleasant surprise when I go out to the shop today. Even if they are fixed, I still have two other problems with the system. I think the brand new pressure guage from McMaster has a slow leak. (It might be the short tube the goes from the manifold block) The rest of it I had under water with no bubbles. I also have a leak in the plumbing back at the tank. There’s quite a few fittings and adapters back there and I’m not sure where it leaks. A lot of it is tucked inside the frame. So general PITA.

Those manual valves will eventually leak if they don't already. Sometimes they will leak up.
As for the overheating, is air not thinner in summer and have less oxygen to burn?
I always thought egt problems got worse in the cold.

Are you saying you have experience with those particular valves or just all valves will leak. They appear to be very well constructed. I have considered 4 ball valves if they truly won’t hold up.

On the temperature, it is true a diesel runs cooler when lean, but I have never heard of edt getting worse in winter.

 

[2big bronco]

I would think egts would get better in the cold as air is denser correct?

 

[WaterH]

I would think egts would get better in the cold as air is denser correct?

I’m not sure if it’s because of denser air, but my experience is EGTs go down with outside temps.

So I just checked the truck and it appears the new fittings fixed the leaks from the valves to the bags. (The truck is with in 1/8” at the 4 corners) Fingers are crossed. I think I have one more push connect fitting in the back on the main line coming from the tank forward. I wonder if that could be the tank leak.

 

[elbekko]

One possible solution. Fit two of the truck/trailer height control valves at different ride heights and run a pneumatic switch to select between them.

On-road, off-road and vent (slammed) would be pretty easy.

As WaterH said, that's just a maze of plumbing for something easily fixed with some basic electronics

All you need is 4/5 solenoid operated valves, and whatever system you desire to control them based on some height sensors. Hell, all of this can probably be done with some off the shelf industrial components.

Or grab an OEM system from the junkyard and be done with it.

 

[Dougal]

You realize to do what you’re suggesting would require 8 of those valves and it would be a maze of plumbing.

Yes, but avoiding electronics that's where you end up. Computer circuits were once pneumatic logic with simple switches and check valves providing all the outputs. Anything is possible with pneumatics if you're dedicated enough.

I reckon it could be done with 4 of those valves though.

As WaterH said, that's just a maze of plumbing for something easily fixed with some basic electronics

All you need is 4/5 solenoid operated valves, and whatever system you desire to control them based on some height sensors. Hell, all of this can probably be done with some off the shelf industrial components.

Or grab an OEM system from the junkyard and be done with it.

I know it's easier with electronics. He doesn't want electronics though. My 1993 RRC system is a great example. A potentiometer on each corner, a valve for each corner and a programmable controller. Could probably be done with arduino these days.

 

[Bacho]

Had an F450 with the mechanical ride hight valves. Worked great. Wired in a dump solenoid to dump the rears when hooking to a trailer, that worked great. If you let it sit a long time, yes the system would have to wait on the compressor.

I would think with some electric solenoids you could great a dual ride height without miles of plumbing and no computers.

 

[elbekko]

I know it's easier with electronics. He doesn't want electronics though. My 1993 RRC system is a great example. A potentiometer on each corner, a valve for each corner and a programmable controller. Could probably be done with arduino these days.

Yup, we're in agreement there. The RRC system (99% the same as on my 1999 P38, by the way) is beautifully simple, mainly let down by 80s electronics. Pop in some better valve drivers and a more robust ECU, and it'd be perfect. Hence my suggestion that it could also be done with off-the-shelf industrial components, but at a greater cost most likely.

I just didn't want to explicitly mention it because someone would just go "ermahgerd Land Rover sux"

But yes. If you want a simple multi-height air suspension system that's easy to integrate, go steal one out of a 1st or 2nd gen Range Rover in the junkyard.

 

[WaterH]

I know it's easier with electronics. He doesn't want electronics though. My 1993 RRC system is a great example. A potentiometer on each corner, a valve for each corner and a programmable controller. Could probably be done with arduino these days.

But yes. If you want a simple multi-height air suspension system that's easy to integrate, go steal one out of a 1st or 2nd gen Range Rover in the junkyard.

Actually, I allready have a simple muli-height suspension. Quite honestly, I have no complaints except it leaks. The reason a preset height would be nice is so I could get in, turn the battery on and the truck go to the preset. If it wouldn’t leak, I don’t need to do anything. It is so rare that I need to change the height, it’s not a hardship.

Currently I have three leaks.
1. A vary slow leak in the front drivers side. Must be at the bag fitting or the bag itself.
2. The copper tube that feeds the guage in the console. I did some tests and found that I need to have the fittings so tight to hold air, that I will need to mount the plumbing in a vice. This is difficult now because I installed the “never leak” fittings. They are hard to take apart. I’m temped to just plug the guage hole.
3. A leak in the plumbing in the rear by the tank. There’s quite a few fittings back. More than you would imagine. Shut off valve, quick coupling for air tools, blow off valve, pressure switch to operate the pump and of course nothing is the same size, so multiple adapters.

 

[WaterH]

I wanted to update this with my home made dynamic balancer. There’s lots about it in another thread, but this is the thread I go back to when I need to find how I did something.

Technically this not a dynamic balancer. It would be more correct to call it a flywheel.

Basically, I’m bolting this in place of the 6BT dynamic ballancer I had been running. It makes the motor run idle a lot smoother. My main goal here is to make the belt last long. Not sure if this will help. Time will tell.

 

[bdkw1]

Did you have to balanced?

 

[WaterH]

Did you have to balanced?

No.it was obviously smoother running right off. I might hook the electronic balancer on it just for fun. I suppose the engine balance could be further out, but the power pulses overshadow them. Since this is smoothing out power pulses, it might feel smoother and really be worse on balance . My balancer is kind of a pain to hook up, but it has a “spectrum analysis” feature that is easy to do and can tell me if I need to do more.

 

[Dethmachinefab]

No.it was obviously smoother running right off. I might hook the electronic balancer on it just for fun. I suppose the engine balance could be further out, but the power pulses overshadow them. Since this is smoothing out power pulses, it might feel smoother and really be worse on balance . My balancer is kind of a pain to hook up, but it has a “spectrum analysis” feature that is easy to do and can tell me if I need to do more.

Did you also press fit the center hub in addition to welding? I'd keep a close eye on the welds, they are doing alot of work with a ton of fatigue potential.

 

[ThePanzerFuhrer]

Did you also press fit the center hub in addition to welding? I'd keep a close eye on the welds, they are doing alot of work with a ton of fatigue potential.

I don’t think it was much. Suggested to him to drill and tap a hole at the mating line to make a makeshift key. Even Two or three wouldn’t hurt.

 

[Firstram]

I don’t think it was much. Suggested to him to drill and tap a hole at the mating line to make a makeshift key. Even Two or three wouldn’t hurt.

This low tech method always works

 

[WaterH]

Did you also press fit the center hub in addition to welding? I'd keep a close eye on the welds, they are doing alot of work with a ton of fatigue potential.

Yes it was a press fit. Don’t know how much, but I had to freeze the center and heat the outside to assemble. Once it got to room temp it was locked. I don’t follow how you see fatigue on that weld. The force would be lengthwise to the weld. If the weld were to crack, the disc would just spin on the spacer. I still think the biggest issue, if there is one, would be the bolts shearing. It’s a small bolt circle for a lot of rotational force. I will be keeping an eye on it.

 

[Dethmachinefab]

Yes it was a press fit. Don’t know how much, but I had to freeze the center and heat the outside to assemble. Once it got to room temp it was locked. I don’t follow how you see fatigue on that weld. The force would be lengthwise to the weld. If the weld were to crack, the disc would just spin on the spacer. I still think the biggest issue, if there is one, would be the bolts shearing. It’s a small bolt circle for a lot of rotational force. I will be keeping an eye on it.

It's loaded and unloaded with every pulse so it's a hard life. Not a weld critique. Bolt shear is certainly a high possibility.

 

[ThePanzerFuhrer]

Yes it was a press fit. Don’t know how much, but I had to freeze the center and heat the outside to assemble. Once it got to room temp it was locked. I don’t follow how you see fatigue on that weld. The force would be lengthwise to the weld. If the weld were to crack, the disc would just spin on the spacer. I still think the biggest issue, if there is one, would be the bolts shearing. It’s a small bolt circle for a lot of rotational force. I will be keeping an eye on it.

lol this is the problem. The way that is welded is pretty much worst case. Each fire of a cylinder is trying to accelerate waterheads mass damper. So each revolution there are 2 hits on that mass. It’s not if it’s when is that weld gonna crack. My screen boxes are huck bolted together because welds fail.

I still think your issue is in the belt setup not the engine itself.

 

[WaterH]

lol this is the problem. The way that is welded is pretty much worst case. Each fire of a cylinder is trying to accelerate waterheads mass damper. So each revolution there are 2 hits on that mass. It’s not if it’s when is that weld gonna crack. My screen boxes are huck bolted together because welds fail.

I still think your issue is in the belt setup not the engine itself.

If it would break at the weld, I can always install some bolts at the mating area. I’m not sure that would solve it unless maybe I use pipe thread. Regular threads would have enough play to work loose. Once there’s any movement, I think it will shear the bolt just as it would shear a weld. This why I say the mount bolts are an issue. They are the most likly to develop some movement first.

As far as the belts go, the setup is the same as many trucks. I’m thinking there’s a reason mine is running rougher than other engines. Injectors, injection pump, maybe one cylinder has got bad compression. I’ve had people say I should pull the injectors and the pump and send them to a diesel shop. Probably good advice, but nobody got time for dat.

 

[desertPOS]

Can't go wrong with safety blue

 

[subybaja]

No competition.

 

[WaterH]

Not really an update. I started a thread “Waterhorse machining again” that quite involved. Ended up rebuilding both alternator mounts. I just wanted it here so I can keep track of the date I did it. Don’t have good pics of the mods because I was in a rush, but I’ll post some to catch my eye in the future.

For my weak memory, the 3 holes are tension adjustments. The small pilot hole equals 25 lbs. The hole next to it is 45 lbs. and the last hole equals 65 lbs. These were measured with a torque wrench. I’m using the center (45 lb) hole.

Modified the povot mount also, but have no pic. (This is the old one)

 

[WaterH]

So I’ve been working on air leaks ever since I built it. Previously, I installed a valve on the console that I can completely separate the front air bag valves from the rear compressor and tank. Once it is pressured up, I can shut it and see if the leaks in front or back. Also, I replaced one of the bag valves because the drivers side front bag would leak down over a couple days.

Of course, both front and back leak down over night. And the drivers front bag still leaks down after a week. When I say leaks down, the drivers side front will be an inch or two lower after a week. (Not on the bump)

This week I decided to tackle these issues again.

First, I uncoupled the line from the air valve to the drivers bag. I capped the shader and left it sit for a couple days. The bag still leaked down some. This tells me the bag leaks or the fitting right in the top. This fitting consists of an elbow and a AC shrader valve. (Not to be confused with a standard tire shradder valve) These fittings are pipe thread and I wanted to confirm they were not leaking at the threads. I like to spray glass cleaner on the joints and look fo bubbles, but the location of this fitting does not allow for it. So I just cranked the fittings really tight. They were tight, but I really put some elbow grease in to them.

Second, I went to the back and removed the battery so I had access to the plumbing from the compressor. There is only one line going forward from all these fittings and I wanted no leaks. I sprayed ever joint and could only find two small leaks at the quick disconnect for air tools I have back there. The leaks seem so small that I doubt it could leak the whole tank down over night, but I again, I cranked the pipe threads tight as shit. When I was done, there was no bubbles.

Third, I have already redone the console valves several times and I didn’t feel like tearing that apart again. But there is one other thing I had not looked at up front. It was the air horns. I have a TEE in the line from the compressor right before the console valves. I decided to spray the fittings there with the glass cleaner and I’m glad I did. There were 3 fairly bad leaks. When I tightened them down, the TEE cracked. ( It's possible that it was cracked all along.) I replaced it and tightened all again.

I pressured the system up once more, closed the console valve and left it. I measured the height of the bumper to the floor very accurate.

After two days, it appears that the drivers air bag does not leak. I still have to hook the line back up to the console, but if that leaks, it would be just one fitting to be replaced. None of the other bags are leaking, so I would assume the only leak in the console is the guage itself. (I’ve had continual problems with it and the hard line that feeds it)

The air pressure on the back side of the console valve leaked down also. I went to recheck everything and I noticed something. Normally, I have two fans on in my shop because it’s so stinking hot. To day I was out early and I hadn’t turned them on yet. When it was dead quiet in the shop, I could hear a tone or hum at the back of the truck. I listened all over and I believe the compressor itself is “back leaking” when it is shut down. This was a brand new compressor, but it could have been leaking all along. I guess I need some kind of check valve.

 

[WaterH]

So it would appear my airbags are all no leaking and the belt problem might be solved. Based on those successes, I decided to tackle the cooling again. I can’t say with authority I actually have a cooling problem. The EGTs run 1000 to 1200 most times. While I think these should be lower, they aren’t terrible. To be honest, the only time I ever back out of the throttle is towing. Probubly I would have to “back out” more often if I lived in the mountains. But there aren’t any big hills with in like 400 miles of my house.

That leaves the water temp. My water temp runs at a cool 180 in all cases except driving faster than 55mph for more than 15 minutes. When cruising at just over 60mph, it will run about 215-220. It has never boiled over, but it has me worried on long drives. If I push it to the high 60s, it will go to 240. Again, it has never boiled over, but I wonder why not. I don’t usually drive faster than 60-62, but I don’t want to worry about it. If I take this thing out west, 60 may not be feasible.

Theory

I have mentioned before that my fans maybe be fighting the aero dynamics of the truck because they take air from under the truck and blow it out the side. Possibly at high speed, that air hits an aerodynamic brick wall. This theory is bolstered by my AC condenser on the other side of the truck. That fan pulls from outside and blows under the truck. The AC works great. In fact, I don’t even have both fans hooked up right now because it gets so cold. I have had the AC fans quit because of a bad relay and the AC still works when traveling over 25mph. That tells me there is some natural flow from the sides to the center of the truck. Some of you may remember these louvers I made to help air flow.

They didnt work.

The answer is simple. Reverse the flow of the radiator to match the AC condenser. Of course, simpler said than done. I can’t just swap the polarity of the motors because the fan blades are a “one way” design. Not saying they won’t work backwards, but certainly not as good. Also, it has been proven many times that a fan is more efficient drawing air through a radiator, rather than pushing. Swapping the fan shroud to the inside of the rad is the answer, but of course, there is not enough room for the fans on that side. So I will be moving the radiator 2” out board and then swapping the fans to the inside.

I started by removing the access panels.

Then I removed the rad and the fans. This was designed to be easy. For some reason it wasn’t quite so, but I got them out along with the tranny oil cooler.

That’s what I got done last night. I’ll start the mods today.

 

[ExWrench]

I started by removing the access panels.

is there a solid sheet metal panel ~4" from the inside edge of that radiator?

If so, a hole saw might be your best friend.

 

[2big bronco]

is there a solid sheet metal panel ~4" from the inside edge of that radiator?

If so, a hole saw might be your best friend.

Sure looks like it huh...

 

[gt1guy]

Even if he spins the rad and moves it outboard, I'd hole saw that panel as ExWrench says.

 

[WaterH]

is there a solid sheet metal panel ~4" from the inside edge of that radiator?

If so, a hole saw might be your best friend.

Not sure exactly what you’re looking at, but no, there is not a solid panel from either side of the rad..

Here’s another angle. If you are referring to the panel on the left, it is the side of the bed. Rad is mounted allot lower then the the bottom of the bed. It is also mounted forward of the front of the bed. That combination means that a very small section of the bed is actually blocking any part of the rad.

In addition, you can see the 2” radiator feed line has clearance on both sides between the bed and the rad.

 

[ExWrench]

Not sure exactly what you’re looking at, but no, there is not a solid panel from either side of the rad..

Looks to me like there's a sheet <4" from the rad & blocking at least the top half or third? Or is the photo just wrecking perspective?

If so & you don't want to cut through it, lay that rad. over ~30 degrees & duct both sides to flow air through it. Dude, you do good tin work & you've been around aircraft; look at how they handle airflow and do some aerospace-y looking bullshit

Please post a top-down pic of that area to reassure us you weren't choking the shit out of that poor radiator

EDIT: or a pic from the underside. Let's see what's going on so we can curb-stomp your gremlin.

 

[WaterH]

Looks to me like there's a sheet <4" from the rad & blocking at least the top half or third? Or is the photo just wrecking perspective?

If so & you don't want to cut through it, lay that rad. over ~30 degrees & duct both sides to flow air through it. Dude, you do good tin work & you've been around aircraft; look at how they handle airflow and do some aerospace-y looking bullshit

Please post a top-down pic of that area to reassure us you weren't choking the shit out of that poor radiator

EDIT: or a pic from the underside. Let's see what's going on so we can curb-stomp your gremlin.

Yea, your are looking at a piece of angle on the top edge of the bed. It’s an inch wide. The angle of the photo makes it look tight. There’s plenty of room there.

 

[ExWrench]

There’s plenty of room there.

How many inches is it from the radiator face to that wall?