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Aftermarket EFI on 460 cliff notes?

Projectjunkie

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I've got a couple potential projects on a back burner, 70s Ford's sitting for some time with 460s, ones a camper van, other a shiny Friday night truck

I figure either rig will need fuel tanks removed, everything flushed, and carbs rebuilt, mechanical fuel pumps replaced (I've lost an engine to a dried out diaphragm dumping fuel), carbs got expensive, and i never was good at them, so stand alone efi might make sense

both rigs should have duraspark

looking for bang for buck

recommendations?
fitech?
holley?
something better?
 

Will12785

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460 efi guys can take an 88-97 harness and turn it into a stand alone. They can also sell you a pre built one. That should probably be your best option over the aftermarket tbi units.

Just grab heads intake and harness off a fuel injected truck and they can set you up with a stand alone for like 650 bucks.
 
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bdkw1

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Just grab heads intake and harness off a fuel injected truck and they can set you up with a stand alone for like 650 bucks.

And have a shitty computer that hates mods.
 

'84 Bronco II

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And have a shitty computer that hates mods.

What? I am not a fuel injection "expert" by any stretch, but my personal experience and most things I have read say the factory Ford fuel injection is a better setup than the aftermarket stuff. Multi port > TBI, and the factory parts are more reliable, cheaper, and more widely available. You definitely want a mass air setup since it will "adapt" to mods without a need for a tune unless you start running bigger injectors instead of a speed density system which will have to be tuned any time you make any major changes to the engine. Sure EECIV has some limitations compared to newer stuff, but it definitely isn't garbage. I'd bet you could do an EECV (OBD II) setup without being too crafty if you really want for the tune-ability.

Regardless, for a stock setup, the factory EFI stuff (speed density or mass air) is a no-brainer.
 

Will12785

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And have a shitty computer that hates mods.

The factory Ford computer can be tuned just as well as any of the options the op listed. There's no shortage of aftermarket tuning options available for early Ford electronics.

Sure you can use megasquirt or something fancy and go all out with it but it really depends on your budget.

For my money, in the sub 1k range the factory efi setup definitely gives you the most bang for your buck.
 

bdkw1

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Having built a 351with a factory computer, I would go with a TB stand alone next time. There are a few places with a Dyno that can work on them, but if there aren't any local your just in a never ending struggle.
 

'84 Bronco II

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Having built a 351with a factory computer, I would go with a TB stand alone next time. There are a few places with a Dyno that can work on them, but if there aren't any local your just in a never ending struggle.

Was this a speed density setup? Was the guy doing your tuning familiar with Ford EEC? There a quite a few guys who are pretty good at tuning via email if you can send them log files.

Again though, the OP hasn't indicated whether the engine will be staying close to stock or not. If he isn't planning on making more power than the stock injectors can support, or running a really nasty cam, then just put a factory mass flow EEC setup on it and be done with it.
 
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ScottRS

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I like Mega/Micro-squirt personally, but to run either the way I'd want to do it, you'd probably be swapping to a multiport intake, buying injectors, fuel pump, wideband O2, TPS, crank position, coolant temp, intake air temp, MAP, at least two ignition coil assemblies, building a harness... even if you can junkyard most of that, you're probably looking to start off spending at least a grand, and building a wiring harness. If you can't junkyard it and/or aren't comfortable with building a harness, it'll get much more expensive in a hurry. Drop-on TBI (Fast/FiTech/Holley/whoever) will probably be cheaper, but may not get you ignition control, whether you want that is another (related) discussion.
 

'84 Bronco II

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I like Mega/Micro-squirt personally, but to run either the way I'd want to do it, you'd probably be swapping to a multiport intake, buying injectors, fuel pump, wideband O2, TPS, crank position, coolant temp, intake air temp, MAP, at least two ignition coil assemblies, building a harness... even if you can junkyard most of that, you're probably looking to start off spending at least a grand, and building a wiring harness. If you can't junkyard it and/or aren't comfortable with building a harness, it'll get much more expensive in a hurry. Drop-on TBI (Fast/FiTech/Holley/whoever) will probably be cheaper, but may not get you ignition control, whether you want that is another (related) discussion.

Good point on the ignition control with the aftermarket EFI setups. The factory Ford stuff controls ignition too which is nice in my opinion since properly curving a distributor is a pain in the ass, especially with Ford stuff.
 

Projectjunkie

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Carbs are getting more expensive and self learning efi looks to be getting cheaper

I'm just looking to improve the driveability of an old stock 460 with minimal work and minimal expense over a new carb and replacing stick fuel system

picking up minor performance and fuel economy is a plus

If I was going to swap heads and such, I'd probably just start with a different powertrain altogether
 

bdkw1

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Was this a speed density setup?

No, mas air conversion from a mustang. I forget who I had doing the tuning but it was sending him the ECU. Constantly chasing issues, was never "right". Trashed it and went with a stand alone system. Light years better. But for the time and money I wasted on the stock set-up, I could have bought one of the new TB set-up's. Running a 14" air cleaner would have been nice to.
 

Will12785

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Carbs are getting more expensive and self learning efi looks to be getting cheaper

I'm just looking to improve the driveability of an old stock 460 with minimal work and minimal expense over a new carb and replacing stick fuel system

picking up minor performance and fuel economy is a plus

If I was going to swap heads and such, I'd probably just start with a different powertrain altogether

In that case I'm sure any of the bolt on tbi units will work fine. The only word of caution I have is that a lot of them use inline fuel pumps like the e2000. Keep a spare because they tend to hydrolock and burn up.
 

bdkw1

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Also, use a single plane intake. Dual planes fuck with some of the TBI systems.
 

Projectjunkie

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In that case I'm sure any of the bolt on tbi units will work fine. The only word of caution I have is that a lot of them use inline fuel pumps like the e2000. Keep a spare because they tend to hydrolock and burn up.

Once upon a time I had an early bronco somebody dumped a ton of money into, but cobbled together a cobra/ lightning /mass air setup on using a e2000, I'm going to avoid all that, this project would start with a new fuel tank and in tank pump, F that inline pump:laughing:
 

M92PV4U

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I'm doing a tbi conversion for my Chevy, I'm using the factory in tank pump. I decided to go with stock efi so it is easier to troubleshoot and get parts for in 10 years.
 

welndmn

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Carbs are getting more expensive and self learning efi looks to be getting cheaper

I'm just looking to improve the driveability of an old stock 460 with minimal work and minimal expense over a new carb and replacing stick fuel system

picking up minor performance and fuel economy is a plus

If I was going to swap heads and such, I'd probably just start with a different powertrain altogether


Just get a factory EFI intake and swap the Mustang 5.0 harness and computer on it. It will be rock solid reliable.
 

bdkw1

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Just get a factory EFI intake and swap the Mustang 5.0 harness and computer on it. It will be rock solid reliable.

If you have a bone stock motor and don't have to fuck with the programming.
 

Projectjunkie

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Here's the rub, I'm pretty set on this $900 easy button, self learning idiot proof thing, and punching a high pressure module into a tank that needs to be removed and cleaned, or replaced anyways

one 460 is new, the other low miles, if i have to buy efi heads, I'm spending $. Or I buy a whole truck. Then I might as well use the overdrive tranny, then I might as well use this 7.3 zf5 drive train I've got, then I might as well save a little more for a Cummins, but then I can't settle for a d44 or d50 in the front, I need a 60. Or I could combine this project with my desire to build a turbo LS, and now I've got a 1000hp E85 dent side monster, which if I'm fucking around with 93 7.5 heads and trying to tune a 9al and rebuild a e4od I might as well go junkyard 6.0 built 4l80e and just really upset everybody with 4wd launches.

shit snowballs fast:flipoff2:

When all I really want is a quick and easy turn key cruiser project, or a 20mpg 7.3 dd, or a 1000hp truck.

what I don't want is to spend days and a grand cobbling together a 275hp 460 that will never run right
 

ScottRS

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Here's the rub, I'm pretty set on this $900 easy button, self learning idiot proof thing, and punching a high pressure module into a tank that needs to be removed and cleaned, or replaced anyways

Details? Which $900 easy button are you thinking about?

I let my project snowball, now I have a twin turbo 351 that hasn't cranked over yet, in a tube jeep that contains about 5 pounds of anything original to the jeep. Should be lots of fun eventually, but I'm a little past $900 deep in it.
 

'84 Bronco II

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If you have a bone stock motor and don't have to fuck with the programming.

I don't know the details of your build or what exactly your issue was, but there are plenty of people running fairly modified engines on stock A9L programming. Sure the stock programming won't be optimized for a heavily built engine, but unless you are running a radical cam, or wanting to put some larger flow rate injectors, the stock mass air computer should run and drive just fine, you will just be leaving a few ponies on the table.

Here's the rub, I'm pretty set on this $900 easy button, self learning idiot proof thing, and punching a high pressure module into a tank that needs to be removed and cleaned, or replaced anyways

one 460 is new, the other low miles, if i have to buy efi heads, I'm spending $

Why do you think you need heads off an EFI engine? I am sure there are some TBI aftermarket systems that kick ass and run great right out of the box, but the couple of guys I have known that have gone that route still had to do quite a bit of dicking around to try and get them to run right, and they still have some odd quirks. I just bought an entire EFI engine with the harness and computer for $500. I have seen plenty of people selling the Ford EFI intakes (with injectors and fuel rails), harness, and computer for $150-$300.

If you want quick and easy, just keep the damn thing carbureted. I have never understood the mentality of "oh, I can't figure out how to get a caburetor to run correctly, so let me dump a ton of money on installing a much more complicated EFI system" :homer: Don't get me wrong, EFI is nice, but for just a "cruiser," I don't see what the issue is with running a carburetor.
 

Projectjunkie

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Details? Which $900 easy button are you thinking about?

I let my project snowball, now I have a twin turbo 351 that hasn't cranked over yet, in a tube jeep that contains about 5 pounds of anything original to the jeep. Should be lots of fun eventually, but I'm a little past $900 deep in it.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...RK1buuJQV5rL2tpUOE9knVwB2PQXzsLBoCeXwQAvD_BwE

$858 at summit, 1st one I came across

figure I'll buy a new bronco tank and resuse a factory module with a new quality brand pump, probably about the same cost and work as doing a new tank and a mechanical pump on a carbd truck
 

'84 Bronco II

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The factory EFI intake doesn't work with normal 460 heads

Huh, learn something new everyday. I am more familiar with the Windsor stuff; I've never spent much time around the 385 series engines.

Since that is the case, I withdraw my argument for factory EFI. No sense in swapping heads unless you are in it for some real power gains.
 
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bdkw1

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Single plane manifold and a nice cam while you're in there. Some headers and TB injection. It will pick up 100+Hp and get better mileage.
 

Poriggity

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welndmn

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I don't know the details of your build or what exactly your issue was, but there are plenty of people running fairly modified engines on stock A9L programming. Sure the stock programming won't be optimized for a heavily built engine, but unless you are running a radical cam, or wanting to put some larger flow rate injectors, the stock mass air computer should run and drive just fine, you will just be leaving a few ponies on the table.



or.

This.
I have a 302 and 351, both with Dyno'd 300/400 HP numbers running factory A9P/L/T computers.
A lot of the Mustnag tuner crowd wants you run a megasquirt or even a programmer, but for small ish (don't forget, these were 200hp to start with engines) The factory computer is fine.
 

Blown4x4

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I have the fi tech 600 hp kit that I’m going to install on my 460. From all the reading I’ve been doing on the internet the fi tech will make any issues you have with the engine worse as far as tuning goes.
 

no class

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This may not be exactly what you are looking for, but is an option. Hot Rod garage used one on these on the turbo t-bird episode and looks pretty slick. I'm thinking of using it. One of the guy's that run the company posts on the Ford Truck Enthusiasts board.
 

JR4X

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I’ve been really pleased with the FAST stuff we’ve been using. Really plug and play even on race engines. The EZ-EFI doesn’t control spark so your old duraspark will still work fine. Speed density is better than MAF. We’ve got a 5.0 stroker and a 454 cid Windsor running the same FAST computer, mpfi , n/a speed density. Got the drop on FAST tbi setup going into a 383 cid Windsor but it’s not a runner yet.
 
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