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Adventure Rail build(s)!

PAToyota said:
Finished assembly:
Suspension.jpg
Click to expand...
Typical buggy shit motion ratio.
 
Ok, you have a welder and a pile of steel. What do you build? I am not being a smartass here, just truly curious.
 
Dethmachinefab said:
Would be better top mount of the shock where the resi is.
Click to expand...
No, shock needs to be leaned farther forward. If he had put a horizontal bar between the B pillar and the diagonal it's mounted off of, he could have gotten a lot closer.
 
Also, how do you set your shock mounts without the trans and axles in? That's a lot of guessing........
 
2nd also:flipoff2: WTF up with the hiem joint attachment from the replacement spring plate to the arm? That's going to get interesting.
 
bdkw1 said:
2nd also:flipoff2: WTF up with the hiem joint attachment from the replacement spring plate to the arm? That's going to get interesting.
Click to expand...
Typical when switching to coilovers from what I have seen but you guys are talking way above my knowledge level. :beer:

Listening though, because I'd love to eventually go coilovers instead of torsion bars.
.
 
Sceep said:
Typical when switching to coilovers from what I have seen but you guys are talking way above my knowledge level. :beer:

Listening though, because I'd love to eventually go coilovers instead of torsion bars.
.
Click to expand...
Hiem at the torsion housing end yes. Another one connecting to the arm no. There is nothing to keep the arm from flopping around. Hitting the brakes will wrap that thing up quick. Unless there's another link in there to keep it constrained that I'm not seeing.....

IMG_9593.jpeg
 
bdkw1 said:
Hiem at the torsion housing end yes. Another one connecting to the arm no. There is nothing to keep the arm from flopping around. Hitting the brakes will wrap that thing up quick. Unless there's another link in there to keep it constrained that I'm not seeing.....

IMG_9593.jpeg
Click to expand...
The trailing arm is constrained at the inner pivot mount. Applying brakes cannot make the arm flop around. The outer link is just constraining the fore/aft movement of the trailing arm.
 
ORTitan said:
The trailing arm is constrained at the inner pivot mount. Applying brakes cannot make the arm flop around. The outer link is just constraining the fore/aft movement of the trailing arm.
Click to expand...
You just reduced the strength of the arm assembly by at least 50%. This will not end well. Thar inner mount is going to get worked with all the extra load placed on it.
 
bdkw1 said:
No, shock needs to be leaned farther forward. If he had put a horizontal bar between the B pillar and the diagonal it's mounted off of, he could have gotten a lot closer.
Click to expand...
Gotcha. I figured you would want as close to 90 at full stuff. Didn't look like it would get there.
 
bdkw1 said:
You just reduced the strength of the arm assembly by at least 50%. This will not end well. Thar inner mount is going to get worked with all the extra load placed on it.
Click to expand...
You are correct! I was not looking at it like that. Thanks for learning me something.:beer:
 
bdkw1 said:
No, shock needs to be leaned farther forward. If he had put a horizontal bar between the B pillar and the diagonal it's mounted off of, he could have gotten a lot closer.
Click to expand...

Like this? This is how it is typically done. Other picture was a customer's build.
Rear.jpg


ORTitan said:
The trailing arm is constrained at the inner pivot mount. Applying brakes cannot make the arm flop around. The outer link is just constraining the fore/aft movement of the trailing arm.
Click to expand...

This. The arm pivots on the inner mount and outer link.

bdkw1 said:
You just reduced the strength of the arm assembly by at least 50%. This will not end well. Thar inner mount is going to get worked with all the extra load placed on it.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I'm following. You're basically replacing the stock torsion with the coilover and the stock plate with the outer link. Otherwise, it is essentially the same as what Sceep has here:
1694987388933-png.746528
 
PAToyota said:
I'm not sure I'm following. You're basically replacing the stock torsion with the coilover and the stock plate with the outer link. Otherwise, it is essentially the same as what Sceep has here:
1694987388933-png.746528
Click to expand...
Except his (like every other spring plate ever) is bolted to the arm with 3 bolts. This takes a lot of bending and twisting loads out of the arm. Having that extra pivot like the ones above put all that load solely on the inner pivot.
 
Ok, I see what you're getting at. By the way, here is the full kit description: Options and Accessories

In practice I'm not sure that it is as serious a concern as you've laid out as these have been used by a variety of rails over the years - including two that competed in the NORRA Mexican 1000 two years ago.

I just work at Berrien part time and was fabricating and assembling a kit for a customer. I appreciate the input as I'm learning from it and will discuss the concerns with the designers.
 
PAToyota said:
Ok, I see what you're getting at. By the way, here is the full kit description: Options and Accessories

In practice I'm not sure that it is as serious a concern as you've laid out as these have been used by a variety of rails over the years - including two that competed in the NORRA Mexican 1000 two years ago.

I just work at Berrien part time and was fabricating and assembling a kit for a customer. I appreciate the input as I'm learning from it and will discuss the concerns with the designers.
Click to expand...
The Norra is a very smooth course, stock vehicles run it. I was there 2 years ago, coming into BOLA, we were 3rd overall in a street legal Bronco. I've been doing this a very long time, Ive seen a lot of different suspension setups on Vdubs. This is the first time I have seen that. While it "works" short term, long term longevity is not going to be there. Look at the spring plate mounts on any 3x3 trailing arm. They are beefy for a reason.
 
Thank you for the input. I'll discuss it with the higher ups and see what they have to say.

This setup is also on a bunch of East Coast rails that see more rocks, climbs, and hook trees and such. I've only been at Berrien for five years, but haven't heard anything about failures.
 
bdkw1 said:
Heim at the torsion housing end yes. Another one connecting to the arm no. There is nothing to keep the arm from flopping around. Hitting the brakes will wrap that thing up quick. Unless there's another link in there to keep it constrained that I'm not seeing.....

IMG_9593.jpeg
Click to expand...

Had a chance to talk this over and you're absolutely right. I wasn't picking up on what you were saying initially.

I was grabbing pictures from the company website since I only had the parts and nothing of it installed on a vehicle. Unfortunately, the pictures on the website all show the very first pre-production trial with heims at both ends of the arm. The guy who put it together (who is no longer with the company) fabbed everything up and they took it out in the back parking lot - and it did exactly what you said the first time they mashed the pedal... :lmao:

You'll notice my initial images looked like this, though:
img_6754edit-jpg.832299


Here's another picture of things finished and ready to go out:
IMG_6765.JPG


Heim at the torsion mount (left) and solid (bolted) mount to the trailing arm.

They really need to spend some time on the stuff they have on their website. This isn't the only example of things on there that just aren't right.
 
FWIW, I'm pretty against the hiem bushing combo. The point of a hiem is it can be adjusted. With a bushing it's useless for adjustment purposes unless the bushing is trashed. Uniball inner and hiem outer is where it's at.
 
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