A wolf in Jeeps clothing - Goatbuilt 1200 LJ/TJ Chassis build

[Wisconsinite]

that cooler is overkill for you application and as FI-Krawler mentioned will be getting blasted with hot air.

i would look into a radial dynamics or howe in line cooler. mount it in front of the radiator or on the vertical tube to the left of the radiator.

Over kill is the best kind of kill. Plus, I have it already. I will look into other mounting options.

Josh

 

[mobil1syn]

Over kill is the best kind of kill. Plus, I have it already. I will look into other mounting options.

Josh

Yea but if you are blasting it with hot hair because of packaging them its not doing much good.

how feasible is it to lay it flat here? a couple speed holes in the hood for air flow

 

[Wisconsinite]

It fits, but is tight. Is this cooler going to cause a flow restriction? I think the ports are only 1/4 npt.

 

[mobil1syn]

Is this cooler going to cause a flow restriction? I think the ports are only 1/4 npt.

those look larger than 1/4" npt. typically on the high end coolers they are an ORB fitting, those look like a -6 or -8.

 

[Wisconsinite]

^ I will confirm

 

[Wisconsinite]

This griffin has 1/4 NPT ports on the cooler.

 

[mobil1syn]

This griffin has 1/4 NPT ports on the cooler.

cut em off and have someone weld these one. i suspect the return on the orbital is -8, so i would go a size up from that.

Fragola AN -8 ORB 3/4"-16 Thread Female O-Ring Port Aluminum Low Profile Weld On Bungs 1" Step - Kartek Off-Road

Fragola AN -8 ORB 3/4"-16 Thread Female O-Ring Port Aluminum Low Profile Weld On Bungs 1" Step for offroad racing in the King of the Hammers, New Zealand Taupo 1000, Dakar Rally, Tatts Finke Desert Race, Score International Baja 500 or Baja 1000, Mint 400, Vegas to Reno, Silk Way Rally, Crandon...

www.kartek.com

or

Fragola AN -10 ORB 7/8"-14 Thread Female O-Ring Port Aluminum Low Profile Weld On Bungs 1" Step - Kartek Off-Road

Fragola AN -10 ORB 7/8"-14 Thread Female O-Ring Port Aluminum Low Profile Weld On Bungs 1" Step for offroad racing in the King of the Hammers, New Zealand Taupo 1000, Dakar Rally, Tatts Finke Desert Race, Score International Baja 500 or Baja 1000, Mint 400, Vegas to Reno, Silk Way Rally, Crandon...

www.kartek.com

 

[Wisconsinite]

That's a great idea.

 

[Wisconsinite]

Had some time this weekend to get a few hours in the shop! I worked on front bump mounts and limit straps. Having a bypass mount, coilover mount, link mount, sway bar mount, and limit strap mount all wanting to occupy the same space, compromises had to be made. #firstworldproblems.

First, without having an air bump pad hang way off the axle, the bump can had to be frenched into the frame pretty far. I was not happy about that, but I didn't have much of an option. If it kills a busload of nuns, I will have learned my lesson..... I did run a 3/16" domex gusset plate on the inside of the frame rail to help with reinforcement. With the pads on the axle, and the bumps the first component to bottom out on full bump (both sides of axle at full bump) I was a happy camper. Unfortunately, they are only at 1/2 stroke on full articulation, but, what can you do?

\

Next up was limit straps. I haven't had time to complete these, but you can get an idea of what I am going after. I hesitantly drilled a 1.00" hole through both frame rails, and sleeved them with a piece of DOM I reamed to 9/16". Then I made some tabs for the axle ends and tacked them on. I will flex test the front sometime this week and see what I am working with as far as strap length, and how it flexes out.

 

[mobil1syn]

add vertical plates or a tube to support the center of that plate, it will bend from being hammered on by the bumpstop

 

[Wisconsinite]

^
Being that it's 3/16 domex, I didn't think any reinforcement would be necessary. But it wouldn't take that long to put in, thanks.

 

[Bebop]

Some thoughts:

That cooler is overkill. I like overkill too.
This means its very efficient at exchanging heat between the fluid and air around it. Coolers are not a one way street. The coldest of the 2 mediums available (oil or air passing through) is getting heated by the other. So it'll be extra good at heating the fluid from the hot air getting blasted on it.

On the other hand, I don't know how people can keep their systems happy with just a heatsink.
I have a 20" PSC / Derale unit and it WILL NOT keep my system anywhere around 120* under hard use (high RPM / heavy rock crawling).
I'm thinking about going to a single pass (less pressure loss than a dual pass) oil cooler very similar to yours with dedicated fans to try to solve my problem. Maybe it's because of my hydroboost making more heat ? No idea.

Eric Amato from RD didn't think have a positive answer on that but assured me a big oil cooler would be more than overkill.

If you're modfying the cooler ports (and you should), go AN10 or 12. Bigger cannot hurt performance.

Last thing, I could not find a griffin oil cooler with the specs you shared. Is it a radiator and not an oil cooler ? If yes be careful because the cores are different between oil coolers and water coolers.



For the bumpstops being frenched into the frame, my bumps on my buggy are built the exact same way and I've been jumping the crap out of it with no issues at all. Only difference is that I have pin mount bumpstops vs the split can to keep as much strength as possible.

 

[Wisconsinite]

^
Thanks for the input. I feel a little better about the bumps now. It sure was nervewracking cutting that much out!

I took some more pics of the cooler.

 

[gtxracer2]

On Friday, a buddy stopped over for some beers and we got on the topic of power steering coolers, and where I'm going to mount mine. I hadn't gotten to that point quite yet, and wouldn't mind some input from anyone following along.

I am running a PSC CBR pump and reservoir w/ filter. I have two options for the cooler, one is a PSC single pass super flow heat sink fluid cooler, and the other is a Griffin 19 x 6 x 1.75" cooler.

The front of the engine compartment is starting to fill up fast, my initial thought was to mount the PSC cooler off the shock hoop cross bar/ upper radiator mount. That would be quick and easy, and in close proximity to the steering resi and orbital. One of the down sides to this location is it would not get a lot of air flow, another is it would be in the way of doing anything with the accessory drive. One thing to note, I am flipping my intake so there will not be a throttle body or intake system there.

Then my buddy asked about the option of mounting it lower, directly behind the radiator. That would ensure it would not drain back to the resi, and would also be in close proximity to the steering resi and orbital. Is getting hot air better than no air? I would angle the cooler to match the radiator for more clearance at the fans. I had that little tray sitting in the scrap pile, and would be easy enough to mount with some tabs coming off the shock tubes.

WWID?

Can you move the steering cooler in front of the radiator, same position? Maybe weld tabs to the radiator, so the PS cooler mounts directly to the radiator and makes removal easy. The Howe coolers work well too. I had the same cylindrical finned cooler in your pics for my PS system (hydro assist with DE ram and Sweet servo), and it's just not big enough - but the Howe cooler should work.

This is the bigger Howe cooler, I plan to run this when I move to #8 lines this winter:

Howe Performance Large Power Steering Oil Cooler 3" Dia. 11-1/2" Long Uses AN -12 ORB Inlet/Outet - Kartek Off-Road

Howe Performance Large Power Steering Oil Cooler 3" Dia. 11-1/2" Long Uses AN -12 ORB Inlet/Outet for offroad racing in the King of the Hammers, New Zealand Taupo 1000, Dakar Rally, Tatts Finke Desert Race, Score International Baja 500 or Baja 1000, Mint 400, Vegas to Reno, Silk Way Rally...

www.kartek.com

 

[Wisconsinite]

^
I have a plan of attack that I think will work well. A few posts ago, Mobil1syn suggested a position up near the upper radiator mount that will work well and keep it in freshish air.

I have talked with Griffin regarding the core size of the cooler, and they said it is good to go. I ordered -8 male fittings to replace the 1/4 NPT female bungs that are welded to the cooler currently.

The last few weekends I haven't been able to get much time in on the rig, but I have a three day weekend and am hoping to make some progress.

Edit: I purchased a few extra bungs in -8, -10, and -12 just to have on hand. There is no benefit to having a -10 fitting reduced down to -8 hose is there?

 

[Bebop]

Put the -10 fittings. For full hydro return, -8 is too small

 

[Wisconsinite]

Are you saying to plumb the whole return circut from orbital to resi in -10?

 

[gtxracer2]

Yes, at least #10, #12 if it’s available. That’s intended to be a low pressure line but can sometimes see higher than intended pressures. The larger return line slows the flow rate drastically and can relieve pressure also. Feed line should be #12 too.

 

[Wisconsinite]

From what it sounds like, I was undersizing the plumbing. Is -6 sufficient for the lines going from orbital to ram?

 

[gtxracer2]

From what it sounds like, I was undersizing the plumbing. Is -6 sufficient for the lines going from orbital to ram?

I would use #8.

 

[Bebop]

From what it sounds like, I was undersizing the plumbing. Is -6 sufficient for the lines going from orbital to ram?

Depends what the use will be. For ultra4 / desert I'd say go to 8. For crawling 6 is fine.

 

[gtxracer2]

Depends what the use will be. For ultra4 / desert I'd say go to 8. For crawling 6 is fine.

#6 is too small for this system, especially the ram. It would be very slow and likely not have nearly the same power as #8. The hose sizes should match the system and all components should follow this trend. Pump, servo/orbital, and hydraulic cylinder (ram) should all be matched together. I went through this with my setup and it was a learning process that I hope he can avoid.

 

[Wisconsinite]

I haven't bought any other fittings/plumbing for the steering system at the moment. This will not be a race car, but I like to go fast. If -8 to the ram is not overkill, that is easily accomplished. The fittings/hose can't cost that much more going from -6 to -8.

Is there any downside to going -8?

 

[mobil1syn]

http://www.howeperformance.com/wp-content/uploads/Rock-Racing-Full-Hyd-w.-T-Pump.docx.pdf

 

[Wisconsinite]

^
Bingo.

Thanks for the help fellas!

 

[CaptainBalding]

I took the advice of adding a little strenght to the carrier bearing mount. I added a plate gusset to the bottom tab, and also added another tab with a 5/8" bolt. I know the bolt is overkill, but it was easier than turning a bushing, pressing it into the trans housing, and then making a tab with a 3/8" or 1/2" bolt.

I decided to mount the battery in the subframe on the passenger side of the transfer case. This will keep a heavy component as low as possible, and free up a lot of space in the engine bay.

I also got the exhaust knocked out this weekend. 1/2" stainless LS3 manifold flanges, 2.5" 304ss tubing, 4" OAL flex pipe, 4" x 14" Magnaflow, vibrant performance V-band clamp, and factory camaro exhaust tips.

After a few test pieces, I was happy with the welds!

This was my first time using V-band clamps on an exhaust build, I never considered them due to the cost. After my experience with them this weekend, I will try to budget them into the project budget for any exhaust build. I bet I had the driver side tail pipe off 15 times trimming the tube to get the exhaust tip where I wanted it. It was really painless with a v-band, where a standard u-bolt or band clamp would have sucked big time.

The build is Awesome! I have an LS Powered LJ and love it. I might rethink the battery location as heat kills them, right next to the exhaust is sure to cook it.

 

[Wisconsinite]

The build is Awesome! I have an LS Powered LJ and love it. I might rethink the battery location as heat kills them, right next to the exhaust is sure to cook it.

Thanks for the input. I spent a lot of time thinking about the battery location, and a few things led to its current location. The engine bay is getting tight quick, and one day I would love to have a power adder on this rig. With the battery mounted in the belly, it moves a heavy component lower in the chassis for a slightly lower COG, but it also frees up a lot of room in the engine bay. Currently, there is nothing but a shock reservoir mounted in the pass side of the engine compartment(gives me a nice little home for a rotary muffler).

I am already planning on making some sort of heat shield for the battery, and will more than likely have the exhaust wrapped.

 

[RadialDynamics]

For reference, hose sizes should not be based on the size ports you are connecting but should instead be based on flow velocity. Rule of thumb is that you want your suction (feed) hose to be around max 4 FPS, high pressure max 25 FPS (I try to stick to around 15 typically), and return max 10 FPS.

That CBR pump is flow regulated to put out around 4-5 GPM max output so assuming 5 GPM, a -12 feed hose results in 4.3 FPS (good), -8 high pressure from pump to orbital is 12.4 FPS (good), and -8 low pressure return is 10.7 FPS (also good).

Going up to -10 return is still acceptable at 6.5 FPS and gives you room to upgrade to a higher flowing pump in the future if needed but there is such thing as using too large of a hose. Aside from the higher cost of large hose, if your hose size is too large and flow velocity is too low, then you will struggle to carry any trapped air back to the reservoir (the only place it can escape the system) and to carry solids contamination to the filter.

From the orbital to ram, these two hoses do not see full flow rate from the pump all the time the way the rest of the circuit does and if you are pushing max flow through them, it is only momentarily during a very quick steering maneuver so I usually recommend keeping those as -6 high pressure hose which is still well within reason for recommended velocity and also makes routing a little easier going to the axle.

 

[gtxracer2]

From the orbital to ram, these two hoses do not see full flow rate from the pump all the time the way the rest of the circuit does and if you are pushing max flow through them, it is only momentarily during a very quick steering maneuver so I usually recommend keeping those as -6 high pressure hose which is still well within reason for recommended velocity and also makes routing a little easier going to the axle.

Thanks for chiming in, it's great to hear from your expertise. I was under the impression the #6 hoses do not flow enough for the size of the ram. Most #6 high pressure hoses are actually 5/16 ID from my experience, not 3/8 as indicated by the sizing (6/16 for AN hoses for those unaware). It was my understanding that #8 hoses allow more flow and therefore steering speed increases. Right now, I have a similar system as OP, and I am limited in steering speed - IE, can't turn the wheel as fast as I want, the system slows down my hand speed on the steering wheel. I'm hoping I'm wrong and you're right, and there's some other small change to make to improve steering speed. For reference, my setup is a DE PSC Ram (2.25" bore ram with 1.125" shaft), Lee CBR 4.5GPM pump, Sweet .235 servo, PSC reservoir. #6 lines, #10 feed (IIRC), but a #6 return (IIRC). Hoping it will help OP as much as it'll help me stop banging my head chasing quick powerful steering.

 

[RadialDynamics]

With a full hydro system, the hose size won't impact what flow rate is moving because flow through the main circuit is determined by the pump and flow in the hoses feeding the ram are determined by the orbital valve (however too small of a hose will result in pressure loss and heat).

Typically if it is difficult to turn the wheel quickly but works fine when you turn slowly, that indicates inadequate flow. Things are a little different when dealing with a servo valve though compared to an orbital due to differences in the way they function. Without derailing this thread, feel free to send me a message and I'd be happy to help you tackle your setup.