4th Gen 4runner strength considerations

[Skinny]

Around my neck of the woods a near stock truck with a rear locker, sliders, and some armor will do 90% of the trails. Insert throttle and momentum as necessary. So that skews my judgement in that you don't "need" big money suspension or mods to wheel.

Sure making things reliable and stronger are nice but not a necessary upgrade. Now you want to climb big rocks are go fast yes you'll need $$$.

But I also just narrowed a set of junkyard 60's for my S10 which is on 33s because I didn't want to get into spending money and needing to chase everything. Could have started with Jeep axles, then moved up to 44s, and finally ended up in a decade later with tons.

But I'd rather spend the money and get it set up right so that when I'm ready to upgrade the infrastructure is already in place rather then double or triple spend.

I also am a firm believer that no matter how much money you spend on IFS it will never be good for what I use it for. Ie. Go pound the shit out of it and expect it to not only hold up but keep an alignment. At the end of the day that truck still has a small clamshell diff and you are in the constraints or working with the factory frame.

Even with Marlin parts sure it may have a fuck ton of ground clearance and with RCVs the shafts won't pop. But unless you are going fast I think you are just better off with a big piece of cast iron up there. Of course that contradicts where the market is. So just my opinion.

 

[Cameronswmp9]

Well the good part is you can start buying parts and getting seat time now. Driver mod and learning the vehicle is better than any $$$ you throw at it! I wouldn't mind building a 4th gen one day

Driver mod is a bit rusty, and even with stock shit on the bunny slopes it can be a lot of fun.

 

[DMG]

I would consider finding some D range 285s or 255s instead of 35s.

 

[Slander]

Driver mod is a bit rusty, and even with stock shit on the bunny slopes it can be a lot of fun.

Evreytime I go to URE I think "this place would be a blast in something on 33s with a rear locker."

 

[FleshEater]

Evreytime I go to URE I think "this place would be a blast in something on 33s with a rear locker."

I have a vehicle to fit the bill.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I would consider finding some D range 285s or 255s instead of 35s.

The 35x10.50s fit almost as easy as the 285s fwiw.

 

[FleshEater]

The 35x10.50s fit almost as easy as the 285s fwiw.

Not on a 4th gen. He’ll be chopping body mounts if he doesn’t push the arm forward or go super high.


My 33’s rub enough to turn on stability control or whatever going into parking lots.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Not on a 4th gen. He’ll be chopping body mounts if he doesn’t push the arm forward or go super high.


My 33’s rub enough to turn on stability control or whatever going into parking lots.

My 285s rubbed also.

Adjusting the stock lower arms and aftermarket uppers was enough to make them fit. The narrower width on stock wheels is the key.

There is so many more options for the 4th gens, fitting narrow 35s would be easy.

 

[Cameronswmp9]

My 285s rubbed also.

Adjusting the stock lower arms and aftermarket uppers was enough to make them fit. The narrower width on stock wheels is the key.

There is so many more options for the 4th gens, fitting narrow 35s would be easy.

There are aftermarket LCAs and pivots (linked earlier in this thread) that help to move the lower forward. It adds in a bunch of caster, I'm not sure exactly how much, but works to clear the body mount and other obstruction. Bad thing is stupid expensive, pushing LT dollars.

Just fitting the tire stock won't work, of course, but even with adding factory adjusted caster with UCAs isn't enough. Cutting the body mount is a must without pushing forward, and even then it may be needed depending on tire and specs, width, wheel, offset, tread, etc. Narrower may help with turns, but overall in a straight line still not going to work.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

There are aftermarket LCAs and pivots (linked earlier in this thread) that help to move the lower forward. It adds in a bunch of caster, I'm not sure exactly how much, but works to clear the body mount and other obstruction. Bad thing is stupid expensive, pushing LT dollars.

Just fitting the tire stock won't work, of course, but even with adding factory adjusted caster with UCAs isn't enough. Cutting the body mount is a must without pushing forward, and even then it may be needed depending on tire and specs, width, wheel, offset, tread, etc. Narrower may help with turns, but overall in a straight line still not going to work.

I can't speak too much to the 4th gen specifically.

What I can say is that when I researched putting 285s on my 3rd gen. Everyone said you need 3"+ lift, wheel spacers, cutting, blah blah blah. However, when I went to actually mount them. They fit pretty much perfect after some extremely minor mods to the firewall. This was with no lift and stock offset wheels. Sure they rubbed, but very minor. I did lift it 3/4" just cause, which didn't seem to change anything honestly.

I went to the narrow 35s and 2.5" lift ome coils a few years ago and the rubbed more because of the larger diameter, but the lesser width made it not near as bad as you'd think. I spent some time with the struts removed jacking the tire up and Turing lock to lock. I was surprised how much the cam bolts on the lower arms moved the tire forward. I wanted good caster so I left the adjustable uppers at the neutral position.

Again, they rub, but it's very minor, it gets wheeled and driven everyday. I say do it, but skip the LT stuff. Adding 6"+ of track width would be more of a hindrance than a benefit for crawling anyway imo.

As far as aftermarket LCA's, why not modify yours? Put them om a table, make some measurements, cut and move the pivot 1" forward. Then add some plates and whatnot in.

 

[Cameronswmp9]

As far as aftermarket LCA's, why not modify yours? Put them om a table, make some measurements, cut and move the pivot 1" forward. Then add some plates and whatnot in.

Space and tooling right now. No garage, brother has our welder 3 hours away in storage, he's in the same situation.

I'm thinking like what Slander said, start collecting parts for when the time comes for a solid and then make that happen. It's a lot of parts needed, all steering, axle, etc so it will take time.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Space and tooling right now. No garage, brother has our welder 3 hours away in storage, he's in the same situation.

You have a jack and hand tools? Because that's what I used to make 35s fit on mine. I did do it in a small garage, but I've done plenty of work in gravel before

I'm thinking like what Slander said, start collecting parts for when the time comes for a solid and then make that happen. It's a lot of parts needed, all steering, axle, etc so it will take time.

To me, the limitations of a full body 4runner make going bigger axles and all that almost pointless unless you want to totally trash the body.

With that 4th gen being a bit larger, using anything but 1 tons is going to be pretty pointless, or fairly expensive. 1 tons need 40s, which would be cool, but just a whole different can of worms.

 

[FleshEater]

You have a jack and hand tools? Because that's what I used to make 35s fit on mine. I did do it in a small garage, but I've done plenty of work in gravel before



To me, the limitations of a full body 4runner make going bigger axles and all that almost pointless unless you want to totally trash the body.

With that 4th gen being a bit larger, using anything but 1 tons is going to be pretty pointless, or fairly expensive. 1 tons need 40s, which would be cool, but just a whole different can of worms.

Body mount chop and welding is 100% required on these 4th gens. Can confirm.

I agree with all you said at the end…and that is going to run the OP over the Marlin IFS kit. Especially if he wants to keep it nice and safe for a daily.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Body mount chop and welding is 100% required on these 4th gens. Can confirm.

I agree with all you said at the end…and that is going to run the OP over the Marlin IFS kit. Especially if he wants to keep it nice and safe for a daily.

You have your lower arms set all the way forward?

 

[FleshEater]

You have your lower arms set all the way forward?

I don’t understand…there’s no adjustment forward other than normal camber alignment adjustments. And those alone will not clear 35’s.

 

[rockota]

I don’t understand…there’s no adjustment forward other than normal camber alignment adjustments. And those alone will not clear 35’s.

They also adjust caster. And can move the tire forward or aft a bit if manipulated correctly.

But that sacrifices alignment

 

[FleshEater]

They also adjust caster. And can move the tire forward or aft a bit if manipulated correctly.

But that sacrifices alignment

MY 33’s are rubbing the body mount at less than full lock on compression. 35’s would be into it all day.

I mean, they don’t sell mount chop kits just because guys on forums said it HAS to be done. It really has to be done.

 

[Cameronswmp9]

You have a jack and hand tools? Because that's what I used to make 35s fit on mine. I did do it in a small garage, but I've done plenty of work in gravel before



To me, the limitations of a full body 4runner make going bigger axles and all that almost pointless unless you want to totally trash the body.

With that 4th gen being a bit larger, using anything but 1 tons is going to be pretty pointless, or fairly expensive. 1 tons need 40s, which would be cool, but just a whole different can of worms.

Hard to cut and weld a LCA without the metal glue gun

Decent set of Dobinsons or coilovers for now, and start to save up and collect parts for a set of super duty axles and all the accessories, or go something like the RCLT and be weary of the steering on the big tires. Even the JDFAB stuff has steering strengthening, but it's still on a rack and pinion, would actually be a Tacoma rack not that that would make much of a difference.

Really seems like it comes down to 3 questions:
1- do I run IFS and deal with the short comings involved?
2- do I swap the axle, going on a handful of builds unlike 1st, 2nd, or 3rd gens?
3- do I run what I bring or do I look for a different base vehicle?

Honestly torn between 1 and 2, leaning towards 2 long term, but lack of solid build info does push some questions in my head

 

[FleshEater]

Hard to cut and weld a LCA without the metal glue gun

Decent set of Dobinsons or coilovers for now, and start to save up and collect parts for a set of super duty axles and all the accessories, or go something like the RCLT and be weary of the steering on the big tires. Even the JDFAB stuff has steering strengthening, but it's still on a rack and pinion, would actually be a Tacoma rack not that that would make much of a difference.

Really seems like it comes down to 3 questions:
1- do I run IFS and deal with the short comings involved?
2- do I swap the axle, going on a handful of builds unlike 1st, 2nd, or 3rd gens?
3- do I run what I bring or do I look for a different base vehicle?

Honestly torn between 1 and 2, leaning towards 2 long term, but lack of solid build info does push some questions in my head

ANYTHING “hardcore” wheeling should not be used as a DD. Drive it to the trails? Fine, but you don’t want to count on this to get to work. If you want to wheel in rocks and get a little wild, find a Samurai. The 4th gen can tow it on a small trailer. Abuse it, love it, and don’t worry about it come Monday morning for work.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I don’t understand…there’s no adjustment forward other than normal camber alignment adjustments. And those alone will not clear 35’s.

Adjusting the cam bolts can move the tire forward a fair amount.

They also adjust caster. And can move the tire forward or aft a bit if manipulated correctly.

But that sacrifices alignment

More caster is a sacrifice?

MY 33’s are rubbing the body mount at less than full lock on compression. 35’s would be into it all day.

I mean, they don’t sell mount chop kits just because guys on forums said it HAS to be done. It really has to be done.

These Toyota ifs guys posting on toy twc, or whatever the popular forum is are not wheelers. They buy whatever -420mm offset gold method wheels then talk about how much lift you need for whatever size tire.

I'm running 35s with about 2.5" lift on a platform that the internet said wouldn't run 33s without extensive mods. I'm willing to bet those same tires wouldn't be that big of a deal on a 4th gen.

Here's a great example of a bunch of guys saying you need to do a bunch of crazy mods to run the exact tires and wheels I run with minor mods.

35x10.50 17 Tires

Hey Y’all, I see lots of newer Tacos running 35x10.50 17 Kenda Klever tires. Anyone running this size on a 1st gen and if so, what lift? I have a 2”...

www.tacomaworld.com

 

[Cameronswmp9]

ANYTHING “hardcore” wheeling should not be used as a DD. Drive it to the trails? Fine, but you don’t want to count on this to get to work. If you want to wheel in rocks and get a little wild, find a Samurai. The 4th gen can tow it on a small trailer. Abuse it, love it, and don’t worry about it come Monday morning for work.

I've listened to you, part of the long term is a DD . And I miss my Sammy, and I hate that it got cut the way it did. In fact, reading Yota82's thread about axles in the Suzuki area got my mind going there too, kinda triggering question #3 some.

Adjusting the cam bolts can move the tire forward a fair amount.


More caster is a sacrifice?

To some point, yes. Within factory adjustment tolerance, doubtful honestly, but can make camber adjustments harder by trying to keep that caster since that's what you are targeting.

 

[FleshEater]

I've listened to you, part of the long term is a DD . And I miss my Sammy, and I hate that it got cut the way it did. In fact, reading Yota82's thread about axles in the Suzuki area got my mind going there too, kinda triggering question #3 some.


To some point, yes. Within factory adjustment tolerance, doubtful honestly, but can make camber adjustments harder by trying to keep that caster since that's what you are targeting.

You should post pics of this 4Runner. Is it clean or a shitbox?

 

[Cameronswmp9]

You should post pics of this 4Runner. Is it clean or a shitbox?

Basket on the roof has been removed, and gone up to 265/70R17. Don't have many pictures, it's overall pretty good.

 

[FleshEater]

Basket on the roof has been removed, and gone up to 265/70R17. Don't have many pictures, it's overall pretty good.

Well that’s too clean for me to thrash.

An affordable Sami or Toyota pickup would be a good place to start. It seems like you’re itching to get out and wheel. Surely someone down there has to have a barely running vehicle they’ll sell on the cheap.

 

[Cameronswmp9]

It seems like you’re itching to get out and wheel.

Absofuckinlutely

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I've listened to you, part of the long term is a DD . And I miss my Sammy, and I hate that it got cut the way it did. In fact, reading Yota82's thread about axles in the Suzuki area got my mind going there too, kinda triggering question #3 some.


To some point, yes. Within factory adjustment tolerance, doubtful honestly, but can make camber adjustments harder by trying to keep that caster since that's what you are targeting.

Too much caster isn't an issue with lifted IFS Toyotas.

Factory tolerance? you're putting 35s on IFS, why would you even consider factory tolerance?

 

[Cameronswmp9]

Too much caster isn't an issue with lifted IFS Toyotas.

Factory tolerance? you're putting 35s on IFS, why would you even consider factory tolerance?

I was saying that the adjustment from the factory would not be enough to add too much caster to make a huge difference to be considered "too much caster", but add in all the caster and other adjustments could be effected because of the aim for caster, possibly lose some caster to ensure camber is within spec.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I'm saying you're not going to get too much caster, period.

Most likely you won't be able to get to 4*, and 6-8* isn't a bad thing with larger tires.

It's usually the opposite issue, trying to get enough caster.

 

[FleshEater]

I'm saying you're not going to get too much caster, period.

Most likely you won't be able to get to 4*, and 6-8* isn't a bad thing with larger tires.

It's usually the opposite issue, trying to get enough caster.

I think spec on these is like 3-4 degrees. Mine is around 3.6-3.7 degrees and I wouldn’t mind more.

 

[DMG]

One of the things the uniball UCAs from TC, Camburg, etc do is add caster.