4th Gen 4runner strength considerations

[Cameronswmp9]

Decided to start doing something somewhat productive with my 4runner. It's completely stock, and is in desperate need for some new struts/shocks. If I'm going to do that, then I'm going to at least put fun ones on there.

I'm looking at possibly going with a long travel setup, being it's a DD and gets lots of road miles. SAS isn't off the table, but it's definitely not anytime soon.

For going up to 35s, outside of suspension issues (which should be resolved with the suspension kit) what strength issues will I run into on the stock axles, and mainly the front? Gears and lockers will happen, and needed with the tires. Any other considerations, transmission/transfer case, etc?

 

[rockota]

Cv’s, Lower ball joints, knuckles.

Unless you’re going to do something like the Marlin IFS kit that replaced all that stuff

 

[Cameronswmp9]

Cv’s, Lower ball joints, knuckles.

Unless you’re going to do something like the Marlin IFS kit that replaced all that stuff

Definitely not dropping $20K on suspension, that's assinine.

Most of the LT stuff is new LCAs with different style LBJ, usually uniball, and new CV for the added width. Probably go with a +2 or +2.5. at least it sounds like a good idea

 

[rockota]

Definitely not dropping $20K on suspension, that's assinine.

Most of the LT stuff is new LCAs with different style LBJ, usually uniball, and new CV for the added width. Probably go with a +2 or +2.5. at least it sounds like a good idea

Website says $6250, which seems like a large reduction in the last year.

I’m neither pro nor con… but you’re talking about 35’s on IFS and asking about weak points. You're going to spend $$$$

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Website says $6250, which seems like a large reduction in the last year.

I’m neither pro nor con… but you’re talking about 35’s on IFS and asking about weak points. You're going to spend $$$$

Thats just thier arms right? Then you need shocks, steering rack, rcv's and probably some other parts. Last I looked it was over $12k just for the front, then you have to do something with the rear

 

[rockota]

Thats just thier arms right? Then you need shocks, steering rack, rcv's and probably some other parts. Last I looked it was over $12k just for the front, then you have to do something with the rear

Hell if I know. I’m still waiting for someone to build a +2 kit for 1st gen Tacoma’s… but he’s too busy not finishing a Cummins swap.

And where are my knuckles?

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Hell if I know. I’m still waiting for someone to build a +2 kit for 1st gen Tacoma’s… but he’s too busy not finishing a Cummins swap.

And where are my knuckles?

In my truck bed, honestly forgot you wanted them

 

[Cameronswmp9]

Thats just thier arms right? Then you need shocks, steering rack, rcv's and probably some other parts. Last I looked it was over $12k just for the front, then you have to do something with the rear

Basic comes to about $9K, all out closer to $12K, so not far off. In looking at JDFab, Camburg, and a few others their all out kits are closer to $8-10K depending on shocks, width, and options. Including a steering upgrade, but not sure how it compares to the RCLT steering, but same time for what I'm doing with it, there is an overkill threshold....

 

[FleshEater]

I’m running Icon coil overs and Camburg racing upper control arms on my 4th gen. Love the ride. It goes across the US once a year. 35’s would take some trimming.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

No personal experience on a 4th gen specifically, but old man emu is hard to beat for ride quality vs value. It was night and day on my 3rd gen 4runner just using thier coils.

For 1/8th of cost, I'd go that route

 

[Cameronswmp9]

I’m running Icon coil overs and Camburg racing upper control arms on my 4th gen. Love the ride. It goes across the US once a year. 35’s would take some trimming.

I was looking at yours a decent amount today. I like the look and stance of it, and for what you do with it looks like it works well. I couldn't remember your setup, but I knew it wasn't a long travel. Been looking at similar a bit though.

I'm not sold on 35s, or necessarily long travel, but figured if I'm going in and replacing parts, get more stance and tire than going from a 32 (265/70R17) to a 33. And the LT kits (and some aftermarket LCAs) push everything forward to add caster and get the tire away from the firewall and all intrusions there, for more tire.

 

[Cameronswmp9]

No personal experience, but old man emu is hard to beat for ride quality vs value. It was night and day on my 3rd gen 4runner just using thier coils.

For 1/8th of cost, I'd go that route

Haven't ruled it out, just researching all options. A well set mid travel would be ok, but rather get more out of it if I'm doing it

 

[FleshEater]

I was looking at yours a decent amount today. I like the look and stance of it, and for what you do with it looks like it works well. I couldn't remember your setup, but I knew it wasn't a long travel. Been looking at similar a bit though.

I'm not sold on 35s, or necessarily long travel, but figured if I'm going in and replacing parts, get more stance and tire than going from a 32 (265/70R17) to a 33. And the LT kits (and some aftermarket LCAs) push everything forward to add caster and get the tire away from the firewall and all intrusions there, for more tire.

That would be preferable to a body lift and body mount chop.

 

[Cameronswmp9]

That would be preferable to a body lift and body mount chop.

4th Gen 4Runner Lower Arm Pivots

INSTALL INSTRUCTIONS YEAR-2003-2009 MODEL-Toyota 4Runner WIDER PER SIDE- 0" TIRE SIZE RECOMMENDED- 31"-35" WHEEL TRAVEL- Dependent on suspension kit TIRES PUSHED FORWARD- 0.25" to 1" PARTS INCLUDED- Left and right lower arm pivots, front cross bar, skid plate with diff sump, cross bar tab...

jdfabrication.com

03-09 4runner high caster LCA

Better firewall clearance, and more caster for lifted trucks. These arms push the lower balljoint forward approximately 3/4” for better firewall/body mount clearance with oversized tires. 0 offset or negative offset wheels required to eliminate any potential rubbing of the tire to the control...

btffabrication.com

I like the idea here, pushing everything forward, but that $$ I'm halfway to LT. I think JD kit has the lower pushed, so adding their pivots really gets the tire away from everything, and adds a metric assload of caster, but but not sure how much and if it's too much

 

[FleshEater]

4th Gen 4Runner Lower Arm Pivots

INSTALL INSTRUCTIONS YEAR-2003-2009 MODEL-Toyota 4Runner WIDER PER SIDE- 0" TIRE SIZE RECOMMENDED- 31"-35" WHEEL TRAVEL- Dependent on suspension kit TIRES PUSHED FORWARD- 0.25" to 1" PARTS INCLUDED- Left and right lower arm pivots, front cross bar, skid plate with diff sump, cross bar tab...

jdfabrication.com

03-09 4runner high caster LCA

Better firewall clearance, and more caster for lifted trucks. These arms push the lower balljoint forward approximately 3/4” for better firewall/body mount clearance with oversized tires. 0 offset or negative offset wheels required to eliminate any potential rubbing of the tire to the control...

btffabrication.com

I like the idea here, pushing everything forward, but that $$ I'm halfway to LT. I think JD kit has the lower pushed, so adding their pivots really gets the tire away from everything, and adds a metric assload of caster, but but not sure how much and if it's too much

What do you want to do with this? Figure that out and then decide which route to go.

 

[Cameronswmp9]

What do you want to do with this? Figure that out and then decide which route to go.

Ultimate plan is a DD, hardishcore wheeler, that can handle it all. SEUSA trails, but able to load up and drive anywhere to wheel anything.

The ask is part of the research, hence not being sold on it completely. I understand how the 35s will hurt road manners to a degree, but I also don't want to replace parts every trip out as well.

The suspension should help with interference of the tires, but that's not going to keep diffs from grenading, tcase issues, etc. that is the interest here. I know ECGS makes a bolt in D60 rear, but I don't think there's much for the front outside of gears/lockers and updated shafts. If Tundra stuff would work, which I have not looked into, is the juice worth the squeeze for swapping it in? I've read LT guys on certain applications using Tundra CVs for inexpensive longer shafts, but that's research I have only skimmed into.

I would love to sling a SD60 under it and call it good, but being it's my DD, and I don't have a place to tear it down for that long, it's just not in the cards right now.

 

[FleshEater]

I learned at like 23 not to wheel your DD. Never a great idea.

When I hear hardcore wheeling I think body damage. Am I off base here? Is body damage okay? How much?

You can do a lot on a mild build, outside of “hardcore” wheeling.

Are you trying to build a UA style rig?

I think you should look at Slander’s build thread.

 

[Cameronswmp9]

I learned at like 23 not to wheel your DD. Never a great idea.

The difference in 23 vs 38 is more monies for better parts! And the common sense to not be but so stupid with it

When I hear hardcore wheeling I think body damage. Am I off base here? Is body damage okay? How much?

You can do a lot on a mild build, outside of “hardcore” wheeling.

Are you trying to build a UA style rig?

I think you should look at Slander’s build thread.

I don't care about body damage, to some degree. Really hold up is windows staying intact, heat and AC are nice to have!

To go up to UA style, it's getting spicy with the solid axles. If I had the room to build, and room for another vehicle, I would just jump in and go, but at home I have 3 cars and a 2 car driveway, no garage. I park this turdmobile on the street so wife and kiddo keep their cars in the driveway, and HOA that frowns upon big work. Work in automotive, so have access to a full corporate repair shop, so bolt in stuff is fine, but we don't have welders, benders, etc. and can occupy a lift for 1 day, 2 max of we're not busy.

I have a little shit talking in that thread, he is rather close and I think I've seen his truck at Uwharrie a few years ago, in passing. However his methodology of "drive there wheel drive home" is pretty much what I'm after. I know this thing, no matter how it's built, isn't going after buggy lines but want to do some fun hard shit.

 

[FleshEater]

The difference in 23 vs 38 is more monies for better parts! And the common sense to not be but so stupid with it

I don't care about body damage, to some degree. Really hold up is windows staying intact, heat and AC are nice to have!

To go up to UA style, it's getting spicy with the solid axles. If I had the room to build, and room for another vehicle, I would just jump in and go, but at home I have 3 cars and a 2 car driveway, no garage. I park this turdmobile on the street so wife and kiddo keep their cars in the driveway, and HOA that frowns upon big work. Work in automotive, so have access to a full corporate repair shop, so bolt in stuff is fine, but we don't have welders, benders, etc. and can occupy a lift for 1 day, 2 max of we're not busy.

I have a little shit talking in that thread, he is rather close and I think I've seen his truck at Uwharrie a few years ago, in passing. However his methodology of "drive there wheel drive home" is pretty much what I'm after. I know this thing, no matter how it's built, isn't going after buggy lines but want to do some fun hard shit.

If that is your plan, I would go long travel, personally, and build for 35’s if you’re determined to keep IFS. Buy RCV shafts and then start seeing where your weak links are.

More ground clearance, flex, and width is going to minimize your body damage.

 

[thezentree]

I think you're trying to build a truck that sucks at being a DD and is still not built enough to be a hardcore trail rig without eating front diffs and CVs, especially if you're not set up to do any fab. And you're going to eventually end up buying another DD anyway so you can start cutting up your raisined 4Runner.

You can run every trail at Uwharrie on 33s without body damage and still get like 18mpg on the highway. Not trying to be a dick, but I tried to do this and built a 4Runner that is decent on the road and decent on the trail, but not good at either. I've done some pretty difficult stuff with it, but it's loud, vibrates, and is always dirty inside. Taking your trail rig on a 10 hour drive to go visit family or go to a funeral or a job interview sucks.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I run 35s on a 4runner, daily drive it and wheel it.

Do it

 

[Slander]

I would just SAS it now and put it on 37s, I'm an idiot and have no idea what I'm doing and have a truck that's easy to drive up to 80mph on the highway, so it should be easy for anyone. Also may as well exocage it if you care about the body at all, the hardcoreish trails down here are tight with trees. I also wheeled with a few dudes who went the LT route and it looks very annoying to wheel. Turn the locker off, now back on for a min, now back off oops I popped a TRE.... repeat ...

I drive my junk to and from the trail, but have a few DDs. Recommend getting a daily if you don't have one as a first priority.

 

[DMG]

1st gen tundras have similar suspension so herenis what worked for me.

Front
Icon coilovers. Any good brand will do as long as they are longer travel. Even 5100s
Total chaos spindle gussets
TC eurathane rack bushings
Uniball upper control arms from TC, Camburg, whatever
Diff drop


Rear
Measure for longer shocks and run a good Fox/Icon/etc
Ome or stock 80 series springs

Torsions work awesome with Atrac

 

[Cameronswmp9]

I would just SAS it now and put it on 37s, I'm an idiot and have no idea what I'm doing and have a truck that's easy to drive up to 80mph on the highway, so it should be easy for anyone. Also may as well exocage it if you care about the body at all, the hardcoreish trails down here are tight with trees. I also wheeled with a few dudes who went the LT route and it looks very annoying to wheel. Turn the locker off, now back on for a min, now back off oops I popped a TRE.... repeat ...

I drive my junk to and from the trail, but have a few DDs. Recommend getting a daily if you don't have one as a first priority.

SAS is low on the list, and would probably be a while because of time and space. The axle will probably be the easiest part, getting steering, brakes and all the little shit is what takes so damn long.

Outside of the rack bushings, I hadn't thought about steering issues being weak issues, like popping TREs and all. I've seen some steering solutions, and moves the weak link to the rack itself.

 

[FleshEater]

SAS is low on the list, and would probably be a while because of time and space. The axle will probably be the easiest part, getting steering, brakes and all the little shit is what takes so damn long.

Outside of the rack bushings, I hadn't thought about steering issues being weak issues, like popping TREs and all. I've seen some steering solutions, and moves the weak link to the rack itself.

The problem with pushing and pushing tire sizes is everything comes in bundles. 35’s will take a lot to make them reliably live under that IFS rig.

If you want 35’s you’ll find yourself wanting 37’s. It’s a vicious cycle. Which is why you should take Slander’s advice and make priority number one finding a beater DD. You’re in NC, find an old Tracker or something tiny to DD.

 

[Slander]

SAS is low on the list, and would probably be a while because of time and space. The axle will probably be the easiest part, getting steering, brakes and all the little shit is what takes so damn long.

Outside of the rack bushings, I hadn't thought about steering issues being weak issues, like popping TREs and all. I've seen some steering solutions, and moves the weak link to the rack itself.

I wheel with a bunch of 2nd gen taco guys and they were either popping CVs (not a huge deal as they would change them in like 15mins) or breaking steering components. So much so one of them swapped out the rack with a DE ram. He is right now doing a 1ton swap

I wheeled my Tacoma on 33s for a long time IFS and it was a blast, but I went as cheap as possible and skipped over the whole "LT rock crawling I can make it work" stage that people seem to go through.

 

[Skinny]

There is no right answer here but I think you are building something unobtainable. It's like nice to drive and hardcore wheeling can be graphed and the lines never intersect.

You are starting with a platform that is expensive. The concept of throwing money at it may get you into bigger tires but at the end of the day is still IFS. Sorry to all the guys who do long arms, Marlin setup, portals, etc. Sure those solve problems and may do a bunch of stuff well but simplicity and affordable are not it.

Run some bigger tires with spacers/springs or bike something with some real axles.

 

[FleshEater]

I wheel with a bunch of 2nd gen taco guys and they were either popping CVs (not a huge deal as they would change them in like 15mins) or breaking steering components. So much so one of them swapped out the rack with a DE ram. He is right now doing a 1ton swap

I wheeled my Tacoma on 33s for a long time IFS and it was a blast, but I went as cheap as possible and skipped over the whole "LT rock crawling I can make it work" stage that people seem to go through.

It’s not a stage worth wasting time or money on. I have learned this on my Tracker. Unless you’re spending SAS money on everything, it isn’t worth it.

For me, it’s not even worth keeping a “hardcore” wheeling rig street legal.

 

[Cameronswmp9]

There is no right answer here but I think you are building something unobtainable. It's like nice to drive and hardcore wheeling can be graphed and the lines never intersect.

You are starting with a platform that is expensive. The concept of throwing money at it may get you into bigger tires but at the end of the day is still IFS. Sorry to all the guys who do long arms, Marlin setup, portals, etc. Sure those solve problems and may do a bunch of stuff well but simplicity and affordable are not it.

Run some bigger tires with spacers/springs or bike something with some real axles.

You're not wrong, on about all of it.

I bought this shit when my last truck was totaled, and had about a week of rental car. Was looking for a 3rd gen 4runner or 1st gen Tacoma double cab, but they weren't in the cards, between availability and pricing and time. It's not the first choice, Even though I do like the truck. Any of those other options would be a lot better starting point than this one.

I'm at the split of doing a little until I can SAS it, spend big bucks for the IFS and deal with the inadequate parts that will have to be replaced/upgraded (good money after bad?) and have a truck that's decent at a few things but not really good at any of them....

 

[Slander]

Well the good part is you can start buying parts and getting seat time now. Driver mod and learning the vehicle is better than any $$$ you throw at it! I wouldn't mind building a 4th gen one day