4th Gen 4Runner: Cross Country Runner

[rockota]

FYI only...
R-a60 manual from the tacoma's is .849:1 OD. Vs the .72:1 of the Auto, if my google-fu is correct.

that's almost 18% numerically higher OD in the manual vs. Auto.

just something to consider when doing your calculations.

 

[FleshEater]

FJ t-case will bolt right in. You can also get a manual shift t-case out of a 2010+ 4-runner because they're identical. I got mine out of a 2015 TRD OR 4runner for like $400 this time last year. You'll have to drill a hole in the tunnel and cut some of the interior plastics up for the shifter to work and be accessible. You could buy an FJ/ 5th gen 4R case and then the NWF eco box and be $2k in it total if you want a doubled setup. Put your factory Tcase internals into the Ecobox and then the FJ case behind it.

You'll need the FJ ADD tube and intermediate shaft to delete the front ADD, I have the part numbers on my laptop at home and can check them tonight. I think with a used Tcase and all new Toyota parts for the front diff I was like $700 in the tcase swap and ADD delete. But if your actuators are good on the front diff and especially the Tcase, you can actually make money by selling your old stuff and end up with no electronics and some cash in your pocket (assuming you don't add the NWF box too).

As for gearing, I found that 4.56's and 35's was the perfect sweet spot. I took my 5th gen from Nashville out west on a 2.5 week trip towing a 2200lb travel trailer and had no complaints. Can easily run 80-85 on the western highways too and get decent mileage. I was averaging 17-18 running from Salt Lake City down to Moab about once a month (no trailer) while I lived out there.

3rd gen rear axle would require some serious fabrication to the mounts to work. Not to mention it's like 4" narrower than the factory so you'll have all sorts of tire to body interference, it's weaker overall, etc... Overall terrible idea.

I did not read up on the FJ ADD delete parts. Everyone was discussing Tacomas.

Did you need new drive shafts for this? I’m assuming you did this swap in a 4rh gen, or are you referencing your 5th gen?

I’m still not fully versed in all the parts that swap on these things.

 

[kerleyfries]

I did not read up on the FJ ADD delete parts. Everyone was discussing Tacomas.

Did you need new drive shafts for this? I’m assuming you did this swap in a 4rh gen, or are you referencing your 5th gen?

I’m still not fully versed in all the parts that swap on these things.

My 5th gen was an off-road with the manual tcase. I did the swap in a 2011 tacoma, which is identical drivetrain wise to your 4th gen. The ADD delete parts are all out of a manual FJ cruiser since they didn't have front ADD.

You can also just unplug your ADD and manually shift it over with a screwdriver and leave it, but the tube is still weaker than a non-ADD tube.

Your factory driveshafts will bolt right up. No need for modification to them.

 

[FleshEater]

My 5th gen was an off-road with the manual tcase. I did the swap in a 2011 tacoma, which is identical drivetrain wise to your 4th gen. The ADD delete parts are all out of a manual FJ cruiser since they didn't have front ADD.

You can also just unplug your ADD and manually shift it over with a screwdriver and leave it, but the tube is still weaker than a non-ADD tube.

Your factory driveshafts will bolt right up. No need for modification to them.

I’m going to be dropping my front clamshell out for a re-gear, if you think if it can you grab those part numbers to delete the ADD?

I know the V8 4Runners are non-ADD, too. I’ll just delete that now and do the transfer case after the New England trip.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Fwiw, I don't think anyone was suggesting a whole axle swap from a 3rd gen, they were talking about retrofitting the elocker, which has been done for years.

I would not go this route and I have had a 3rd gen with a functioning elocker for ~7 years. With how expensive they have gotten, and the fact that you have to modify the housing to use them, just go arb.

 

[kerleyfries]

I’m going to be dropping my front clamshell out for a re-gear, if you think if it can you grab those part numbers to delete the ADD?

I know the V8 4Runners are non-ADD, too. I’ll just delete that now and do the transfer case after the New England trip.

90107-12003 x 4 - shorter bolt for ADD to clamshell
90311-47013 x 1 - Output shaft seal
90105-14171 x 1 - Flange bolt
41321-35050 x 1 - Non-ADD Tube
41337-35050 x 1 - Non-ADD output shaft
90363-43001 x 1 - Output shaft bearing
90520-41014 x 1 - Snap ring
90520-75002 x 1 - Ring

This is everything I ordered from McGeorge Toyota and it was $337 shipped.

How to: Deleting ADD system

It seems the next weakest point in these trucks (once the transfer case is swapped out with a manual t-case of course) is the ADD actuator. If this...

www.tacomaworld.com

This link is the directions I followed. It's spot on for what you'll need to do.

 

[kerleyfries]

Fwiw, I don't think anyone was suggesting a whole axle swap from a 3rd gen, they were talking about retrofitting the elocker, which has been done for years.

I would not go this route and I have had a 3rd gen with a functioning elocker for ~7 years. With how expensive they have gotten, and the fact that you have to modify the housing to use them, just go arb.

This sounds even worse. lol. I have an elocker in my 3rd gen and can't wait to rip the axle out and sell it.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

This sounds even worse. lol. I have an elocker in my 3rd gen and can't wait to rip the axle out and sell it.

I debated switching to an arb when I regeared, but didn't want to fix what wasn't broken. I definitely hated the one I retrofitted into my 2nd gen.

 

[kerleyfries]

I debated switching to an arb when I regeared, but didn't want to fix what wasn't broken. I definitely hated the one I retrofitted into my 2nd gen.

I'm not saying the elockers are bad in 3rd gens, just not up to par for the heavier 4th gen runners. I love having an Elocker. I was just saying that I can't wait to pocket the money when I go from this axle to the FJ80 to match the front that is going in. My 3rd gen didn't come with an elocker and the dude before me actually swapped in the elocker rear housing from a totlaed 3rd gen. I'll probably go harrop e-locker in the fj80 rear when time comes for that.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I'm not saying the elockers are bad in 3rd gens, just not up to par for the heavier 4th gen runners. I love having an Elocker. I was just saying that I can't wait to pocket the money when I go from this axle to the FJ80 to match the front that is going in. My 3rd gen didn't come with an elocker and the dude before me actually swapped in the elocker rear housing from a totlaed 3rd gen. I'll probably go harrop e-locker in the fj80 rear when time comes for that.

You lost me at spending $1400 just to still have a (different type) junk elocker

 

[kerleyfries]

You lost me at spending $1400 just to still have a (different type) junk elocker

From everyone I know, the harrops seem to be much more reliable than ARB's. With the exception of 1 dumbass wiring job that had to be redone on the trail, I haven't seen a harrop fail. And never seen one fail mechanically. However, I know multiple people who have gone through multpiple ARB's and then switch to Harrops.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

From everyone I know, the harrops seem to be much more reliable than ARB's. With the exception of 1 dumbass wiring job that had to be redone on the trail, I haven't seen a harrop fail. And never seen one fail mechanically. However, I know multiple people who have gone through multpiple ARB's and then switch to Harrops.

Arbs have been around for 30? Plus years. I know people personally who have ran them for 15+ years with no more than a single hose failure. The only issues I've heard of were the years of bonded seals which have been remedied now.

Elockers have been proven to be unreliable. They have came out with new designs that supposedly fixed the issues, then next thing you know there is lots of people with issues. The other problem is that arb has outstanding support for parts and service. Eaton on the other hand is basically the opposite. There is also yukon zip lockers as well.

Check this thread out before you drop the coin

Eaton Elocker4 vs. old style eaton e locker

I honestly don't believe that your buddies are just going through arbs. Complete failures are really rare. Unless they're buying new lockers because of a bad seal

 

[rockota]

Toyota elocker has been out since 95.5. 28 years. And can be operated manually.

Unreliable? Maybe. Depends.

I’ve had fewer issues with elockers than ARB’s overall. But I’ve owned about the same number of each…

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Toyota elocker has been out since 95.5. 28 years. And can be operated manually.

Unreliable? Maybe. Depends.

I’ve had fewer issues with elockers than ARB’s overall. But I’ve owned about the same number of each…

They came out a long time ago, but didn't produce near as many as arb, and have many different designs.

I went with one on my 2nd gen for that reason. "bUt eYe cAN mAnuAlY lOcK it" and that's pretty much all I did after about 6 months when the actuator took a shit. That was until it broke on 35s

They also suck in comparison to an arb for engagement and disengagement.

Like I said, I don't hate them, just don't think it's worth retrofitting one. I could have probably sold my complete 4runner elocker axle for most of the cost of an arb when I was regearing but decided to keep it. It's worked fine for about 7 years in that rig.

Anyway, derail off. We can squabble in the elocker thread now.



As far as the add, I don't exactly like it, but I have not heard of many problems with Toyotas design. For FleshEater use, I'm betting the better mileage with it intact will be more beneficial than ultimate strength. Unless there is a locking hub conversion I'm not aware of for that generation?

 

[rockota]

Definitely wouldn’t do the work to retrofit into an axle.

FWIW… xcab has an elocker in the back and ARB up front. Any vehicle that wasn’t factory elocker would get a Detroit… or ARB

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Definitely wouldn’t do the work to retrofit into an axle.

FWIW… xcab has an elocker in the back and ARB up front. Any vehicle that wasn’t factory elocker would get a Detroit… or ARB

Same here.

I do actually like the fact that if all else fails I can climb under there, manually lock it and have at least one locker.

 

[FleshEater]

They came out a long time ago, but didn't produce near as many as arb, and have many different designs.

I went with one on my 2nd gen for that reason. "bUt eYe cAN mAnuAlY lOcK it" and that's pretty much all I did after about 6 months when the actuator took a shit. That was until it broke on 35s

They also suck in comparison to an arb for engagement and disengagement.

Like I said, I don't hate them, just don't think it's worth retrofitting one. I could have probably sold my complete 4runner elocker axle for most of the cost of an arb when I was regearing but decided to keep it. It's worked fine for about 7 years in that rig.

Anyway, derail off. We can squabble in the elocker thread now.



As far as the add, I don't exactly like it, but I have not heard of many problems with Toyotas design. For FleshEater use, I'm betting the better mileage with it intact will be more beneficial than ultimate strength. Unless there is a locking hub conversion I'm not aware of for that generation?

There’s a locking hub conversion for the 3rd gen from Lotus axles and it costs some serious coin.

I realize locking hubs require maintenance, and more maintenance on salty roads or mud. BUT, I miss locking hubs. You can almost always limp something out with them disengaged. I’ve done it twice in the Tracker. Without those I would have been really in trouble way out in a creek bed or at the bottom of a ravine in a snow storm.

Flashy, convenient stuff sells, though. Not reliability.

Anyways, I’m going with the ARB. I also want to find some decent air line instead of the cheap plastic stuff I see on air bags on passenger cars. Those rub through too easily.

As for the ADD, it will spin the driveshaft all the time if I delete it, but the CV’s are spinning non-stop already. A little more friction won’t hurt mileage too much. Actuators fail, and mud and water can make it happen quicker. I want as little trouble on vacation as possible. I’ll be pricing out the ADD delete soon.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

There’s a locking hub conversion for the 3rd gen from Lotus axles and it costs some serious coin.

I realize locking hubs require maintenance, and more maintenance on salty roads or mud. BUT, I miss locking hubs. You can almost always limp something out with them disengaged. I’ve done it twice in the Tracker. Without those I would have been really in trouble way out in a creek bed or at the bottom of a ravine in a snow storm.

Flashy, convenient stuff sells, though. Not

Some 1st gen tacomas have locking hubs, I could have done it on mine, but the cv's are different and way less common, plus everything works fine at 350k miles, why change it?

reliability.

Anyways, I’m going with the ARB. I also want to find some decent air line instead of the cheap plastic stuff I see on air bags on passenger cars. Those rub through too easily.

I disagree, the air line they give you is super tough, especially the new black stuff vs the blue stuff. Big rigs use the same line and fittings and rely on air way more than us. It's also super easy to fix and repair. Leave it a little long and you can often clip a little off and re stab it in the fitting, use a repair union or its easy to bring extra. I've seen steel braided, but if it does get messed up, you can't repair it.

As for the ADD, it will spin the driveshaft all the time if I delete it, but the CV’s are spinning non-stop already. A little more friction won’t hurt mileage too much. Actuators fail, and mud and water can make it happen quicker. I want as little trouble on vacation as possible. I’ll be pricing out the ADD delete soon.

It may have more of an effect than you think. The parts are reliable and it's easy enough to manually lock it in an emergency situation.

 

[FleshEater]

Some 1st gen tacomas have locking hubs, I could have done it on mine, but the cv's are different and way less common, plus everything works fine at 350k miles, why change it?



I disagree, the air line they give you is super tough, especially the new black stuff vs the blue stuff. Big rigs use the same line and fittings and rely on air way more than us. It's also super easy to fix and repair. Leave it a little long and you can often clip a little off and re stab it in the fitting, use a repair union or its easy to bring extra. I've seen steel braided, but if it does get messed up, you can't repair it.



It may have more of an effect than you think. The parts are reliable and it's easy enough to manually lock it in an emergency situation.

I didn’t know they made a new black line. The blue line has always seemed cheap to me.

You are right about easier repairs, that’s for sure.

Maybe. I need to pull my skid off and actually look at this damn thing. I don’t know much about it as I’ve never gotten that deep into the front end. Suppose I can see how it works when I pull the clamshell out.

 

[kerleyfries]

The ADD is just a big ass fork that slides back and forth like 3/4 of an inch. Little electrical gears move it. Deleting it does less for your gas mileage than you’d think. Negligible compared to wheels and tires or armor.

I still would rather the harrop than ARB because it's less moving parts and shit to go wrong. I'm not bouncing this thing around on 40's or larger so I'm not super concerned about strength. It'll be in a toyota 9.5" on 37's under a 3rd gen 4runner.

 

[Slander]

The ADD is just a big ass fork that slides back and forth like 3/4 of an inch. Little electrical gears move it. Deleting it does less for your gas mileage than you’d think. Negligible compared to wheels and tires or armor.

I still would rather the harrop than ARB because it's less moving parts and shit to go wrong. I'm not bouncing this thing around on 40's or larger so I'm not super concerned about strength. It'll be in a toyota 9.5" on 37's under a 3rd gen 4runner.

Man up and just put a spartan in the rear and be done


FleshEater while you are pokeing around under the front end look into just hooking the ADD to a switch and do it that way and buy some old CVs off somewhere and make a 2wd kit Incase you break anything in the front end. It's basically the CV outer you bolt into place so your bearing doesn't come apart. Manual hubs are cool, but like others said the shafts are hard to find and the outers are smaller diameter, at least they were on the 1st gens.

 

[rockota]

The ADD is just a big ass fork that slides back and forth like 3/4 of an inch. Little electrical gears move it. Deleting it does less for your gas mileage than you’d think. Negligible compared to wheels and tires or armor.

may be about the same impact as running in 4wd the entire time (assuming multi-mode tcase) given it'll spin driveshaft 100% of the time.

ORS used to make manual hub kits... not sure if they do for the 4th gen, though.

 

[ToyodaAddict1980]

Anyways, I’m going with the ARB. I also want to find some decent air line instead of the cheap plastic stuff I see on air bags on passenger cars. Those rub through too easily.

I put an ARB in the back of my Dads 4runner, I used the blue line and found some clear flexible hose at home depot that was a perfect fit to sleeve it. I used the larger black line on my front ARB and sleeved some of it as well. Seemed like a good idea

 

[FleshEater]

I took that FJ case and turned the front output in 2WD. As Yota stated above I think that non-ADD will affect my gas mileage way more than I thought. There’s a lot of resistance on that case in 2WD.

Also, I really like Slander’s idea for making a 2WD set up of old CV’s. Maybe I can find some with broken inners for dirt cheap. Cut them down to just the outer and toss em in some Ziploc bags.

So, FJ case will force the front driveshaft to compress 3/4” of an inch more and extend the driveshaft out an inch in the rear. What’s the general consensus on driveshaft spacers? Yay, or nay? I know it’s another weak point, but is it that bad?

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I took that FJ case and turned the front output in 2WD. As Yota stated above I think that non-ADD will affect my gas mileage way more than I thought. There’s a lot of resistance on that case in 2WD.

Could manually engage it and do some milage testing.

Also, I really like Slander’s idea for making a 2WD set up of old CV’s. Maybe I can find some with broken inners for dirt cheap. Cut them down to just the outer and toss em in some Ziploc bags.

I always figured I'd just make them on the trail if I had to.

So, FJ case will force the front driveshaft to compress 3/4” of an inch more and an inch in the rear. What’s the general consensus on driveshaft spacers? Yay, or nay? I know it’s another weak point, but is it that bad?

You're not making sense. If the case is bigger and compresses the shafts, spacers would make it worse?

 

[FleshEater]

Could manually engage it and do some milage testing.



I always figured I'd just make them on the trail if I had to.



You're not making sense. If the case is bigger and compresses the shafts, spacers would make it worse?

That’s the front. My rear driveshaft will be extended 1” further than it is now. It’s already an 1” out from factory since the rear is lifted quite a bit with the progressive rate coils. I see what I did, forgot to mention it would extended the rear an inch. Going back to edit.

Also, do you carry a grinder or reciprocating saw with you to make those CV’s on the trail?

 

[kerleyfries]

I took that FJ case and turned the front output in 2WD. As Yota stated above I think that non-ADD will affect my gas mileage way more than I thought. There’s a lot of resistance on that case in 2WD.

Also, I really like Slander’s idea for making a 2WD set up of old CV’s. Maybe I can find some with broken inners for dirt cheap. Cut them down to just the outer and toss em in some Ziploc bags.

So, FJ case will force the front driveshaft to compress 3/4” of an inch more and extend the driveshaft out an inch in the rear. What’s the general consensus on driveshaft spacers? Yay, or nay? I know it’s another weak point, but is it that bad?

It won’t make it much worse than it is. The tcase will have no bearing on the mileage, and having both cv’s spinning over 1 isn’t much more resistance in the front end. You’re vastly over thinking this.

What about it makes you think you need driveshaft modifications? It’s a direct bolt in and has the exact same dimensions as every other tcase that comes behind the 1GR motors.

 

[rockota]

It won’t make it much worse than it is. The tcase will have no bearing on the mileage, and having both cv’s spinning over 1 isn’t much more resistance in the front end. You’re vastly over thinking this.
.

Both CV’s, driveshaft. Additional tcase components.

 

[kerleyfries]

What about it makes you think you need driveshaft modifications? It’s a direct bolt in and has the exact same dimensions as every other tcase that comes behind the 1GR motors.

I may be incorrect in this... I just learned that some of these early 4th gen 4runners have the 4 speed A340f in them, in which case it is shorter than the A750f and you will need modified shafts. However, if you have the 5 speed A750f then you shouldn't need any modifications to the driveshaft.

 

[kerleyfries]

Both CV’s, driveshaft. Additional tcase components.

Got me on that one. My point is that if you're using this thing to the point that you're wanting to delete ADD then you have enough modifications already hurting your mileage that the additional resistance from deleting the ADD is negligible.