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2bbs 2021 bronco build

Bmadda said:
I have found that the math doesn't work out. What I do is pick a random number based loosely on how far it's off, then I put a gps on the dash (or my phone w/a gps speedo) and set the cruise at say 70-75 on the interstate, and lower the number till I find the sweet spot. Tedious process cause you can't do it while the vehicle is on the road. You gotta make a mental note of how far off it is, then stop somewhere to make the adjustment Haven't quite dialed the 40s perfect yet, when I get some time I will, but I went through this whole process w/the 37s and even put a stagger tape on them, but the math doesn't work!
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Yeah, its confusing learning what you dont know.

Anyhow you should throw a quick and simple build thread on here. You wont have to worry about saying the wrong thing here and getting axed.
 
Chkn said:
Sounds like the ECU compares front axle sensors vs rear axle sensors. Did they say how many teeth are on the factory tone ring vs the new modified one? Sounds like no matter what gear ratio you pick it won’t be happy if the new tone ring doesn’t have the right amount of teeth. The ECU will think the clutch is slipping all the time because the signals won’t be within an acceptable range.
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he goes from 44 to 34 on the rear shafts (or 35...cant remember). Orig is 44, just counted!
 
2big bronco said:
So reading the wheel speed sensors in real time showed very close to true mph... all 4 of them... so either the tone rings are correct in thier 22% different tooth count, or the computer is compensating somewhere.
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Trying to remember, front wheel speed sensors are after the portals, right?
What code are you getting when it flakes out?

Ran across this thread which talks about the necessity of relearning both the AWD and the PCM after you change the tire size, from what they're saying it sounds like it freaks out and goes into limp mode when you turn because until you relearn them it's calculation on what the normal acceptable variance in wheel speed between left and right and a turn should be.
www.bronco6g.com

How to: Recalibrate Speedometer with Forscan for 2021 Bronco

Just wanted to give an update that PCM relearn option worked for me today, and NO I did not download the latest version released 04/19/22, I used the previous version 2.3.46 released on 02/07/22, so I am not sure why but it did, it is worth a try, and if it doesn't then perform the PCM service...
www.bronco6g.com www.bronco6g.com
From the thread:
Use the PCM service function instead of the PCM relearn. The PCM relearn doesn't work.

UPDATE: on new Forscan versions (2.3.52+), " PCM Module initialization/relearn vehicle data" is reported to work.

Detail:
1- I used FORScanSetup2.3.47.test20220221 (version that supports MY2022 goat modes) with OBDLink EX. You will also need a FORScan demo license.
FORScanSetup2.3.47.test20220221.exe

2- Set front/rear TPMS and tire size in BdyCM. For KM3 37x12.50R17D on sasquatch wheels, use 35psi and 2760mm. For sasquatch stock tires and wheels, use 39psi and 2653mm. Tire circumference cannot exceed 2800mm. DTC's will be set in 2-3 modules that will need to be fixed.
1649394491708-jpeg.jpg

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1649394551830-jpeg.jpg


3 - To fix the non-PCM DTC's, run the AWD relearn. Don't run the PCM relearn (it doesn't work).
1649394679054-jpeg.jpg


4 - Clear the DTC's. All should be cleared except PCM.
5 - Run the PCM reset-all-adaptations service function. This will fix the size mismatch and also clear the PCM DTC. It will relearn the engine/trans/fuel adaptations over time while driving. UPDATE: on new Forscan versions (2.3.52+), " PCM Module initialization/relearn vehicle data" is reported to work.
1649394808203-jpeg.jpg


6 - Confirm all DTCs are cleared.
1649394872617-jpeg.jpg


7 - Install a free speedometer app with tenth-mph readout on your phone and testdrive to confirm speed is within 0.5mph at 60mph cruise control. For new tires, the actual speed should be a little higher than speedo. For worn tires the actual speed will be a little less.
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Aaron Z
 
aczlan said:
Trying to remember, front wheel speed sensors are after the portals, right?
What code are you getting when it flakes out?

Ran across this thread which talks about the necessity of relearning both the AWD and the PCM after you change the tire size, from what they're saying it sounds like it freaks out and goes into limp mode when you turn because until you relearn them it's calculation on what the normal acceptable variance in wheel speed between left and right and a turn should be.
www.bronco6g.com

How to: Recalibrate Speedometer with Forscan for 2021 Bronco

Just wanted to give an update that PCM relearn option worked for me today, and NO I did not download the latest version released 04/19/22, I used the previous version 2.3.46 released on 02/07/22, so I am not sure why but it did, it is worth a try, and if it doesn't then perform the PCM service...
www.bronco6g.com www.bronco6g.com
From the thread:

Aaron Z
Click to expand...
That procedure is very close to what I was/have been doing. I am getting a code for excessive clutch slipping and forced limp mode. P196c or something.

Currently my speedo reeds about 60 when im going about 63 on gps. Put about 40 miles problem free today but never exceeded 67 on speedo or more then 10 miles on the freeway


One thing I am curious about is the psi setting in the computer and how that may effect things. I see people mentioning changing psi with tire size
 
2big bronco said:
That procedure is very close to what I was/have been doing. I am getting a code for excessive clutch slipping and forced limp mode. P196c or something.
Click to expand...
From what they were saying in the other thread, it sounded like you had to:
1. Set the new tire size (and PSI? Not sure if tire pressure is tied to the traction control, or if that's just to change the set point when it starts bugging you)
2. Relearn/reinitialize the AWD module
3. Clear the DTCs
4. Reset the adaptations in the PCM
5. Verify that the DTCs are all clear
It sounded like the full AWD relearn and clearing the DTCs in steps 3 and 5 were the key according to some conversation further down in the thread, it sounds like the PCM did not reset properly unless the DTCs were cleared first.
2big bronco said:
Currently my speedo reeds about 60 when im going about 63 on gps. Put about 40 miles problem free today but never exceeded 67 on speedo or more then 10 miles on the freeway


One thing I am curious about is the psi setting in the computer and how that may effect things. I see people mentioning changing psi with tire size
Click to expand...
Do you have it set up to show you the individual tire speeds while driving? If so, try doing that and making some extended dead slow (3-5MPH) tight turns in a parking lot or other open area and see how much difference trips it up?
If you have ForScan Lite on a phone, it may also be able to see realtime what is causing the error as it's locking up.

Aaron Z
 
aczlan said:
From what they were saying in the other thread, it sounded like you had to:
1. Set the new tire size (and PSI? Not sure if tire pressure is tied to the traction control, or if that's just to change the set point when it starts bugging you)
2. Relearn/reinitialize the AWD module
3. Clear the DTCs
4. Reset the adaptations in the PCM
5. Verify that the DTCs are all clear
It sounded like the full AWD relearn and clearing the DTCs in steps 3 and 5 were the key according to some conversation further down in the thread, it sounds like the PCM did not reset properly unless the DTCs were cleared first.

Do you have it set up to show you the individual tire speeds while driving? If so, try doing that and making some extended dead slow (3-5MPH) tight turns in a parking lot or other open area and see how much difference trips it up?
If you have ForScan Lite on a phone, it may also be able to see realtime what is causing the error as it's locking up.

Aaron Z
Click to expand...

It doesnt seem to be related to turning at all and has only tripped up driving straight. We have live monitored all the wheel speed sensors and compared them to the speedo and they are pretty much right on.... and there isnt much of a noticeable difference while turning.... gradual curves on 45-65mph roads.

I also learned while playing with forscan that I do not have a steering angle sensor or steering column sensor.
 
2big bronco said:
It doesnt seem to be related to turning at all and has only tripped up driving straight. We have live monitored all the wheel speed sensors and compared them to the speedo and they are pretty much right on.... and there isnt much of a noticeable difference while turning.... gradual curves on 45-65mph roads.

I also learned while playing with forscan that I do not have a steering angle sensor or steering column sensor.
Click to expand...

You do, pull up your offroad modes on the dash it has degree based off the input shaft.. All the technical stuff is done with FDRS, you can do full diagnostics and trouble shoot sensors. We are having a Bronco Party in my garage tomorrow afternoon, I will be doing some FDRS programming if you still need help.
 
2big bronco said:
We have live monitored all the wheel speed sensors and compared them to the speedo and they are pretty much right on
Click to expand...
I was wondering if "pretty much right on" isn't good enough, I no longer think that's the issue, see below:
Bmadda said:
he goes from 44 to 34 on the rear shafts (or 35...cant remember). Orig is 44, just counted!
Click to expand...
44/34 is 1.33:1
44/35 is 1.26:1
44/36 is 1.22:1

The portals are 1.22:1 according to the 74Weld website.

If it was a 35 tooth on the rear, then I believe your computer would be seeing the front moving 3% faster than the rear.

Since 44/36 equals the portal ratio, I don't see why 74Weld wouldn't have used a 36 tooth ring in the rear, I suppose it's worth counting, but it seems unlikely to be the issue.
 
aczlan said:
I would be shocked if that was true, it's usually built into the clock spring right under the steering wheel.

Aaron Z
Click to expand...

So in forscan you can pull up every sensor or modual. There is one labled something like "steering wheel angle sensor" , and "steering coulmn sensor". When you click on either it is shown that they are turned off. It sure looks like something I dont have, or isnt used on my model.
 
2big bronco said:
So in forscan you can pull up every sensor or modual. There is one labled something like "steering wheel angle sensor" , and "steering coulmn sensor". When you click on either it is shown that they are turned off. It sure looks like something I dont have, or isnt used on my model.
Click to expand...
Looks like it’s built in to the steering module.

IMG_1532.png
 
Jeffh555 said:
I was wondering if "pretty much right on" isn't good enough, I no longer think that's the issue, see below:

44/34 is 1.33:1
44/35 is 1.26:1
44/36 is 1.22:1

The portals are 1.22:1 according to the 74Weld website.

If it was a 35 tooth on the rear, then I believe your computer would be seeing the front moving 3% faster than the rear.

Since 44/36 equals the portal ratio, I don't see why 74Weld wouldn't have used a 36 tooth ring in the rear, I suppose it's worth counting, but it seems unlikely to be the issue.
Click to expand...
it was 36 then
 
In other news im up to about 120 miles of driving under 62mph gps without problems with 2 freeway trips of 25 miles or so. Plan is to try to go run it 50-100 miles in 1 shot down the freeway under 62mph before I consider the current tune a win for now and try pushing to 70-75mph. Just trying to be able to hone in on exactly where the problems are if they continue.
 
2big bronco said:
In other news im up to about 120 miles of driving under 62mph gps without problems with 2 freeway trips of 25 miles or so. Plan is to try to go run it 50-100 miles in 1 shot down the freeway under 62mph before I consider the current tune a win for now and try pushing to 70-75mph. Just trying to be able to hone in on exactly where the problems are if they continue.
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End result was you needed to go up in tires size rather than down?
 
The dude on Matt’s off road with the bronco is installing portals on his. By installing I mean watch others doing the work. Do not know the brand.
 
A
cj3a said:
The dude on Matt’s off road with the bronco is installing portals on his. By installing I mean watch others doing the work. Do not know the brand.
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Yes but his was an auto. I thought it was funny how quick and easy they made it look... then when hes on the trail he casually mentions that it took 3 days
 
Provience said:
End result was you needed to go up in tires size rather than down?
Click to expand...

Seems that way. Im at 5.40 gears and 36.1" tires. The same math that worked for Bmadda above... but im running 37s and hes running 40s, go figure. He did mention that he knows the math and percentages dont work for calibrating the speedo
 
Any updates? Planning on coming to try it out in the snow soon? Dirty Jed and I stand ready
 
2big bronco said:
In other news im up to about 120 miles of driving under 62mph gps without problems with 2 freeway trips of 25 miles or so. Plan is to try to go run it 50-100 miles in 1 shot down the freeway under 62mph before I consider the current tune a win for now and try pushing to 70-75mph. Just trying to be able to hone in on exactly where the problems are if they continue.
Click to expand...
62? On the freeway? That would piss me off to no end.
 
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