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2000 Ford F-550 Build

06h3 said:
Thanks for the response. Maybe I think new 6.7s (ram or ford) are magical and can do anything and I am wrong. I get they are better, they make more power, have more gears, better EGT control designs and are quieter but when I’m in the situations explained I’m imagining a 6.7 being in the same situation flying by me at triple my speed. Maybe that isn’t the case. They are better but not at the percentage I am thinking they are so I do appreciate the input. I really have nothing to base my experience off of. I have never driven another diesel towing heavy weight.
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there's a lotta good reasons why the MDT motors are always detuned by a bunch
you can hotrod the fuck outta them but you'll end up having just that, a tempermental hotrod that requires the occasional roadside head gasket job

but you do you, bro
 
06h3 said:
Thanks for the response. Maybe I think new 6.7s (ram or ford) are magical and can do anything and I am wrong. I get they are better, they make more power, have more gears, better EGT control designs and are quieter but when I’m in the situations explained I’m imagining a 6.7 being in the same situation flying by me at triple my speed. Maybe that isn’t the case. They are better but not at the percentage I am thinking they are so I do appreciate the input. I really have nothing to base my experience off of. I have never driven another diesel towing heavy weight.
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Mine is the 350 hp C&C, so maybe there is more potential there with a tune, I'm not sure.

06h3 said:
You do bring up a good point on the aux trans. They can be shifted on the fly. Since they I have an auto I need to float gears which would take some practice. My initial reasoning for throwing it out the window was weight. I’d be hanging another 400 lbs (would have to find the actual weight, but it’s heavy) on this truck. A 6 speed or 10 speed wouldn’t have the weight gain an aux trans would have. It wouldn’t require any special knowledge on shifting. Just put your foot down and go but that is at the expense of cost and reliability.
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I'd imagine you'll gain weight with a 10 speed and it's cooling package also.

06h3 said:
I guess it’s like an old semi driver who had the art of knowing the truck inside and out vs. today….just gas and go with an auto.
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Shifting that aux trans wouldn't be hard, just takes a little practice. I recently got my class a and basically learned to shift an 18 speed in a few hours. Not that I'm good, but I can get the truck down the road.
 
[486] said:
there's a lotta good reasons why the MDT motors are always detuned by a bunch
you can hotrod the fuck outta them but you'll end up having just that, a tempermental hotrod that requires the occasional roadside head gasket job

but you do you, bro
Click to expand...
Not sure about it being a temperamental hot rod. It did the job and it did it without failure.

Ford didn’t derate MDT 7.3s, they started doing that with the 6.7. Before that power numbers were constant from what I have read.
 
06h3 said:
Not sure about it being a temperamental hot rod. It did the job and it did it without failure.

Ford didn’t derate MDT 7.3s, they started doing that with the 6.7. Before that power numbers were constant from what I have read.
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You're ignoring your previous issues. You've been through an engine already :laughing:

I always think back to that guy from Colorado who tried towing doubles with 2 different hot rod 7.3s. First an obs then a superduty. Ended up having issues and going to a 6.7 psd.

Then Backwoods and his F700 saga.

Theses engines seem to hold up to hot rodding or towing at the limits, but not usually both.

I'm not even sure what youre after. I thought you had wanted to tow a small travel trailer behind. The last Pic of the 2 rigs, I'm not sure why you didn't just drive them.

I'm still in for the build, but I'm not sure how long it will hold up at near 30k lbs. With just the H3, I'm sure it's fine, but at that point, a 3/4t pick up and car hauler seems much more practical.
 
Here to chime in and say the same thing, especially considering the large turbo 06h3 already has. The weights are solidly in MDT territory, like the F550 chassis/axles arguably are, but the engine and trans are still LDT components more or less, especially in a 20+ year old truck.

Better to get there a little slower than to blow something up on the road IMHO.
 
Going through the first engine had nothing to do with towing. I put all the work into the motor and I had a defective part that had an injector stuck open and ruined the motor with less then 10 miles of driving on it. Never even towed with it.

Now, if it blew that motor up towing, or had years of towing and it blew up going to Home Depot and was on round 2, I’d agree that it’s not made for the towing with my power output. Which this setup still may not be but I don’t think the first engine issue was representative of that. It was a defective part.

The long term goal is to still pull a tow behind camper. This was a specific trip. I was going to the rubicon, I have a car trailer that’s been in socal since 2018. The last time I lived in socal was 2018 so I wanted this trailer back and I had a buddy that flat tows his Jeep so he could bring my trailer up, wheel the rubicon, I take the trailer and he flat tows back to so cal. My brothers JK was going to the rubicon and drove the 500 miles there. I had an empty trailer and said, what the hell. Let’s give this a try and split the fuel cost.

Do you have the old threads on the F700 and the Colorado guy? I would be interested to read up on them.

What motor was in the F700? Personally I think class 6/7 is a waste. You get the power of a class 5, the weight of a class 6/7, and your slower then everything else. My opinion is class 5 or class 8. Skip the in between.
 
Useless info I am sure but my '18 f350 with 6.7 ands 4.10s pulling a tall 25k lbs will maintain 65 mph on my way up to SW Colorado with no problems, having said that engine coolant and oil temps got exciting on the way up in 100+ temps. Pushed the coolant up to 232 and engine oil to 245, trans at 225*, highest I had ever seen.
There aren't any crazy grades out that way though but the short ones there are might downshift to 5th. (twice in 850 miles).

My buddies pull there 5th wheels with leveling kits and 35" tires 75+ on steepish but short Texas hills no problem.


The issue here is what the OP wants to do. (I thought) The whole idea was to save cash from buying a new rig/trailer and haul the h3 on the back as well as a trailer if needed.
If goal creep is the problem then so be it but the OP needs to be honest about the goals.

This rig for $33k seems to be the real deal for the current double tow situation.
1658956848934.png
 
It would be an interesting test if you could get ahold of different trailer\camper setups. I can see 3 easy combo's that people in your situation could go between. It would be cool to test how well it tows, what mpg does it return, how's the turning etc.

F550,H3 in bed + small 20'ish camper.
F550,Slide in camper + H3 on car trailer.
F550,Redneck toy hauler goose with both on it.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
You're ignoring your previous issues. You've been through an engine already :laughing:

I always think back to that guy from Colorado who tried towing doubles with 2 different hot rod 7.3s. First an obs then a superduty. Ended up having issues and going to a 6.7 psd.

Then Backwoods and his F700 saga.
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and belben with his DT466
 
06h3 said:
Going through the first engine had nothing to do with towing. I put all the work into the motor and I had a defective part that had an injector stuck open and ruined the motor with less then 10 miles of driving on it. Never even towed with it.

Now, if it blew that motor up towing, or had years of towing and it blew up going to Home Depot and was on round 2, I’d agree that it’s not made for the towing with my power output. Which this setup still may not be but I don’t think the first engine issue was representative of that. It was a defective part.
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It was still a victim of adding hot rod parts.

06h3 said:
The long term goal is to still pull a tow behind camper. This was a specific trip. I was going to the rubicon, I have a car trailer that’s been in socal since 2018. The last time I lived in socal was 2018 so I wanted this trailer back and I had a buddy that flat tows his Jeep so he could bring my trailer up, wheel the rubicon, I take the trailer and he flat tows back to so cal. My brothers JK was going to the rubicon and drove the 500 miles there. I had an empty trailer and said, what the hell. Let’s give this a try and split the fuel cost.
Click to expand...

Makes sense

06h3 said:
Do you have the old threads on the F700 and the Colorado guy? I would be interested to read up on them.
Click to expand...

I think the CO guy was the owner of addicted offroad it and Backwoods thread are on pbb.

06h3 said:
What motor was in the F700? Personally I think class 6/7 is a waste. You get the power of a class 5, the weight of a class 6/7, and your slower then everything else. My opinion is class 5 or class 8. Skip the in between.
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12v cummins, then later a 7.8L? Ford diesel. (another mechanical I6)

Depends on the truck. There are lots of class 6/7 Trucks with 7.3s or 5.9 cummins engines. But many also came with larger engines, much much better transmissions, cooling packs, brakes, suspension, tires, ect. They usually don't have much power, but are totally happy being floored for 500k miles. License can also be an issue. Some state want a CDL with air brakes no matter what.

CarterKraft said:
Useless info I am sure but my '18 f350 with 6.7 ands 4.10s pulling a tall 25k lbs will maintain 65 mph on my way up to SW Colorado with no problems, having said that engine coolant and oil temps got exciting on the way up in 100+ temps. Pushed the coolant up to 232 and engine oil to 245, trans at 225*, highest I had ever seen.
There aren't any crazy grades out that way though but the short ones there are might downshift to 5th. (twice in 850 miles).

My buddies pull there 5th wheels with leveling kits and 35" tires 75+ on steepish but short Texas hills no problem.


The issue here is what the OP wants to do. (I thought) The whole idea was to save cash from buying a new rig/trailer and haul the h3 on the back as well as a trailer if needed.
If goal creep is the problem then so be it but the OP needs to be honest about the goals.

This rig for $33k seems to be the real deal for the current double tow situation.
Click to expand...

What does the factory guage read at those temps? I obviously only have factory stuff in my work truck. The fan kicks on a lot, and I've seen the engine temp go a little passed half way, but no idea what the actual temp is.

350TacoZilla said:
It would be an interesting test if you could get ahold of different trailer\camper setups. I can see 3 easy combo's that people in your situation could go between. It would be cool to test how well it tows, what mpg does it return, how's the turning etc.

F550,H3 in bed + small 20'ish camper.
F550,Slide in camper + H3 on car trailer.
F550,Redneck toy hauler goose with both on it.
Click to expand...

The second 2 combos just seem like a waste when he has a 16 foot bed. Slide ins are also much more expensive than trailers for what you get.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
What does the factory guage read at those temps? I obviously only have factory stuff in my work truck. The fan kicks on a lot, and I've seen the engine temp go a little passed half way, but no idea what the actual temp is.
Click to expand...

Not sure actually, I enabled the temps above the gauges in Forscan and (thinking about it now) I never look the needle now...:homer:

Looking back through my pix, it actually looks like it is scaled, or just sits on "middle" until a problem...
1658971645429.png

1658971697519.png
 
CarterKraft said:
Not sure actually, I enabled the temps above the gauges in Forscan and (thinking about it now) I never look the needle now...:homer:

Looking back through my pix, it actually looks like it is scaled, or just sits on "middle" until a problem...
1658971645429.png
Click to expand...

Hey; my Bronco gets the same gas mileage as your rig!:laughing::eek:
 
CarterKraft said:
Not sure actually, I enabled the temps above the gauges in Forscan and (thinking about it now) I never look the needle now...:homer:

Looking back through my pix, it actually looks like it is scaled, or just sits on "middle" until a problem...
Click to expand...

How do I do that on mine? :flipoff2:

This is 6% for about 1.5 miles at 37k lbs.

20220727_074034.jpg


6.4 is as high as I've seen, was just over 5 during spring :laughing:
 
Ok, there are too many posts to qoute so I wont qoute any and just reply.

CarterKraft thats for the info on your towing scenario. It may not be apples to apples but good to reference. As for that truck, it looks cool but the problem I see is the DT466. Sure, that engine will go for 500k miles with the foot on the floor but it is probably an underpowered dog and even slower then the 7.3 That engine had a minimum power rating of 210/520 had a maximum output of 300hp/860 TQ. The truck and chassis weighs a shit load more and power wise your no better off.

An Ultra 4 guy has an OBS 7.3 chase truck and he has 160/30 injectors (I am 180/30) and he has the same turbo setup with a SXE366 (mine is a SXE364.5) and in a daily tune he put down 380/799 to the wheels on 37in tires. So power wise I doubt I am that far off but with a way heavier truck that is probably slower going up grades....that is a guess but hearing the stories about the DT466 is that they are slow as shit....but they can handle the foot on the floor for 500k miles.

That is why in the end I say skip class 6/7 and just get an old semi. Tons of torque, rating to pull 80k lbs all day every day for years and when you gross out at 40k (due to additional weight of semi vs F550) you never stress the thing out.


YotaAtieToo I wont stick my head in the sand if the motor blew up due to hot rod parts but it is flat out false to say the first engine went out due to hot rod parts. It went out due to an OEM harness and the fact that I am an idiot that was being led by another idiot.

The gaskets that have the harness under the valve cover was the issue. I later learned that the generic ones from orielly have terrible reviews. Everyone says go motorcraft. Anyways, the harness was defective and stuck an injector open. After installing all the hot rod parts it wouldnt start well. When I finally got it to start it ran like dog shit, black smoke everywhere at idle....I am a diesel newb, or was an even bigger one at the time, and was told, oh thats just new injectors, they will purge the air out, just drive it....I do and I get not even a mile and I call my buddy and say something isnt right. "Just keep driving it, its air in the system" I do and it melted a piston due to the stuck open injector. I get home and do those electrical forscan tests and one came back bad for a cylinder. I changed the gasket/harness and then it ran fine....besides the fact that one cylinder was wasted...it ran 1000 times better then it did before with the bad harness. I never towed with it and if I replaced the injectors with new factory injectors the same thing would have happened. This was a non modified part that caused the issue. At that point it was time for a new motor.

I do agree that is the advantage to the class 6/7 truck, cooling pack is wayyy better but power to weight ratio is worse and you end up with a slower truck.

350TacoZilla When I first went down the rabbit hole I avoided the truck bed camper due to lack of size. we wanted more room then an F350 truck with a truck bed camper towing a trailer.

We avoided a V10 RV because we felt it wouldnt pull well over the numerous mtn passes. If I was doing local 100 mile trips it probably be fine but doing 850+ one way trips I figured it wouldnt be happy. a diesel pusher RV was out of the budget and then I only have a diesel pusher as tow rig since I dont have a truck so for a trip like the rubicon I have to lug along a diesel pusher RV when I dont need that.

Thats why we went this route and I think it has worked out ok so far. Goal creep is a thing and I think if my new goal was to tow both rigs everywhere now it wouldnt be a good idea. The end goal is still to get a small camper. This was just a logistical thing that happened and said, hey lets throw the JK on this empty trailer that is going the same place your going.

@[486] I was in a pist off mood yesterday for other reasons so someone did shit in my well. As for head gaskets I do have ARP head studs on it. I may still blow it but I did try my best to prevent it lol

I will reach out to a guy on social media, to see how many miles he put on his 7.3 doing hot shot. He has the exact same setup as I have but with no head studs. Just bolted on the same turbo and injectors. He is on the east coast so that does make a difference and he has pulled 38k before. He is over 26k daily. He killed 1 motor with 400k on it and I dont know the reason behind that. Then he killed a 2nd motor due to a corroded harness that stuck an injector open on cylinder 6, killed the alternator and starter but he was doing this EVERY SINGLE DAY. So while my goal is not to be hauling 2 rigs and it is to haul a small light camper he was a crazy example doing worse shit then me every day, not 12x a year like I do.
 
Oh for sure man, I was actually talking about just the 1 rig in tow which would normally be your H3 I imagine. I was just saying if someone was looking to go camping and bring a vehicle along with them the options I gave are what comes to mind as a way of doing it with your current truck, other than sell it and buy some 100k+ class A with car trailer behind it.
 
06h3 said:
Ok, there are too many posts to qoute so I wont qoute any and just reply.

CarterKraft thats for the info on your towing scenario. It may not be apples to apples but good to reference. As for that truck, it looks cool but the problem I see is the DT466. Sure, that engine will go for 500k miles with the foot on the floor but it is probably an underpowered dog and even slower then the 7.3 That engine had a minimum power rating of 210/520 had a maximum output of 300hp/860 TQ. The truck and chassis weighs a shit load more and power wise your no better off.

An Ultra 4 guy has an OBS 7.3 chase truck and he has 160/30 injectors (I am 180/30) and he has the same turbo setup with a SXE366 (mine is a SXE364.5) and in a daily tune he put down 380/799 to the wheels on 37in tires. So power wise I doubt I am that far off but with a way heavier truck that is probably slower going up grades....that is a guess but hearing the stories about the DT466 is that they are slow as shit....but they can handle the foot on the floor for 500k miles.

That is why in the end I say skip class 6/7 and just get an old semi. Tons of torque, rating to pull 80k lbs all day every day for years and when you gross out at 40k (due to additional weight of semi vs F550) you never stress the thing out.
Click to expand...

:laughing:You couldn't be more backwards, dt466 are so easy to make more power with. Tractor pull guys make 1000hp without hardly touching the internals.

06h3 said:
YotaAtieToo I wont stick my head in the sand if the motor blew up due to hot rod parts but it is flat out false to say the first engine went out due to hot rod parts. It went out due to an OEM harness and the fact that I am an idiot that was being led by another idiot.

The gaskets that have the harness under the valve cover was the issue. I later learned that the generic ones from orielly have terrible reviews. Everyone says go motorcraft. Anyways, the harness was defective and stuck an injector open. After installing all the hot rod parts it wouldnt start well. When I finally got it to start it ran like dog shit, black smoke everywhere at idle....I am a diesel newb, or was an even bigger one at the time, and was told, oh thats just new injectors, they will purge the air out, just drive it....I do and I get not even a mile and I call my buddy and say something isnt right. "Just keep driving it, its air in the system" I do and it melted a piston due to the stuck open injector. I get home and do those electrical forscan tests and one came back bad for a cylinder. I changed the gasket/harness and then it ran fine....besides the fact that one cylinder was wasted...it ran 1000 times better then it did before with the bad harness. I never towed with it and if I replaced the injectors with new factory injectors the same thing would have happened. This was a non modified part that caused the issue. At that point it was time for a new motor.
Click to expand...

My bad, I must have been mixing up other threads, I thought it was a bad injector or tune.

06h3 said:
I do agree that is the advantage to the class 6/7 truck, cooling pack is wayyy better but power to weight ratio is worse and you end up with a slower truck.
Click to expand...

Again, you're totally off. Lots of those MDT engines can make more than your HP level without breaking a sweat.

Doesn't make much sense to compare a fairly modified engine to a stock engine. Stock 7.3 is one of the most underpowered engines of the last 30 years.

06h3 said:
350TacoZilla When I first went down the rabbit hole I avoided the truck bed camper due to lack of size. we wanted more room then an F350 truck with a truck bed camper towing a trailer.

We avoided a V10 RV because we felt it wouldnt pull well over the numerous mtn passes. If I was doing local 100 mile trips it probably be fine but doing 850+ one way trips I figured it wouldnt be happy. a diesel pusher RV was out of the budget and then I only have a diesel pusher as tow rig since I dont have a truck so for a trip like the rubicon I have to lug along a diesel pusher RV when I dont need that.

Thats why we went this route and I think it has worked out ok so far. Goal creep is a thing and I think if my new goal was to tow both rigs everywhere now it wouldnt be a good idea. The end goal is still to get a small camper. This was just a logistical thing that happened and said, hey lets throw the JK on this empty trailer that is going the same place your going.

@[486] I was in a pist off mood yesterday for other reasons so someone did shit in my well. As for head gaskets I do have ARP head studs on it. I may still blow it but I did try my best to prevent it lol

I will reach out to a guy on social media, to see how many miles he put on his 7.3 doing hot shot. He has the exact same setup as I have but with no head studs. Just bolted on the same turbo and injectors. He is on the east coast so that does make a difference and he has pulled 38k before. He is over 26k daily. He killed 1 motor with 400k on it and I dont know the reason behind that. Then he killed a 2nd motor due to a corroded harness that stuck an injector open on cylinder 6, killed the alternator and starter but he was doing this EVERY SINGLE DAY. So while my goal is not to be hauling 2 rigs and it is to haul a small light camper he was a crazy example doing worse shit then me every day, not 12x a year like I do.
Click to expand...

I wonder if a bigger turbo might actually help you. You don't seem to need quick spool being on the highway 99% of the time. More airflow could keep things cooler.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
I wonder if a bigger turbo might actually help you. You don't seem to need quick spool being on the highway 99% of the time. More airflow could keep things cooler.
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I can't remember if this is the build or not but I was worried about this charger being too small with the low gears the 550 has.
Is there a AR change you could make or would a new turbo required to get more flow?



OP Lastly what did you end up with for tuning?
 
CarterKraft said:
I can't remember if this is the build or not but I was worried about this charger being too small with the low gears the 550 has.
Is there a AR change you could make or would a new turbo required to get more flow?



OP Lastly what did you end up with for tuning?
Click to expand...

I believe those turbos are pretty modular. Not sure what's more economic though.
 
Tunes are from 1023 diesel and AA tuning.

I have a .91 exhaust housing. I could go to a 1.0 housing.

That’s good to know on the DT466 YotaAtieToo I haven’t seen many people mod them but haven’t searched much
 
06h3 said:
Tunes are from 1023 diesel and AA tuning.

I have a .91 exhaust housing. I could go to a 1.0 housing.

That’s good to know on the DT466 YotaAtieToo I haven’t seen many people mod them but haven’t searched much
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Have you talked to them about what you saw, EBP, MAP, ICP, ect. ?

The later DT466E doesn't get modded much but the earlier mechanical gets wicked up.
Personally I don't see the need to do this job fast.
I run 65 mph, rolling down hill up to 70 or so.
I want to get there with no issues.
 
CarterKraft said:
Have you talked to them about what you saw, EBP, MAP, ICP, ect. ?

The later DT466E doesn't get modded much but the earlier mechanical gets wicked up.
Personally I don't see the need to do this job fast.
I run 65 mph, rolling down hill up to 70 or so.
I want to get there with no issues.
Click to expand...

I agree, but 45 mph at 3k rpm plus kinda sucks.
 
CarterKraft said:
Have you talked to them about what you saw, EBP, MAP, ICP, ect. ?

The later DT466E doesn't get modded much but the earlier mechanical gets wicked up.
Personally I don't see the need to do this job fast.
I run 65 mph, rolling down hill up to 70 or so.
I want to get there with no issues.
Click to expand...
I haven’t. I do keep an eye on things EBP is pretty close to 1:1 ICP 2800ish when cruising with that load.
YotaAtieToo said:
I agree, but 45 mph at 3k rpm plus kinda sucks.
Click to expand...
I see both sides. 45 mph sucks and flying isn’t a good thing either.
 
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