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1988 Samurai Turned Buggy

Even with spacers on the rear i'd move the top of the shocks back to the inside of the tube like you had them. 6" of up travel on an air shock is a lot. I think most guys run 3"-4" to help with unloading and stability.
 
chaplinfj60 said:
you will also loose some power going to propane. i have had for 5 years in a 22r. worked fine but really did not come alive until i turbo ed it. pre turbo it was down on power.


not alot down but down.
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While technically lpg has less energy the gasoline ive never heard anyone say they noticed it, and usually people claim the opposite. I always figured its because generally carbs suck offroad.....
 
Blase said:
Even with spacers on the rear i'd move the top of the shocks back to the inside of the tube like you had them. 6" of up travel on an air shock is a lot. I think most guys run 3"-4" to help with unloading and stability.
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They don’t hit now. No need to move them in.

The only downside to limiting my up travel is if I want to get to an obstacle quicker. Bottoming out sucks. But this is why I kind of regret not going 16”.
 
2big bronco said:
While technically lpg has less energy the gasoline ive never heard anyone say they noticed it, and usually people claim the opposite. I always figured its because generally carbs suck offroad.....
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Yes an no, its like higher octane so has more potential, but without high compression or boost its wasted.

I really wanted propane when I had my first samurai. What I remember reading was you may pick up power coming from a shitty carb like samurai or 22r but would loose power coming from efi.
 
FleshEater said:
They don’t hit now. No need to move them in.

The only downside to limiting my up travel is if I want to get to an obstacle quicker. Bottoming out sucks. But this is why I kind of regret not going 16”.
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Tipping the tops inboard will give you better geometry. For a crawler, you want the shock around 90° to the axle tube on the compressed side when fully flexed out. Your current setup is going to go way past 90° during flex. Since you removed the tube work that was in the way, you may as well get your shocks at a more ideal angle.

On the flip side, the more the shocks are angled inward, the worse they will perform for jounce travel (at speed). Also, the closer you get the upper shock mounts together, the less effective the will be at combatting torque twist, so it is all a balance. The higher and wider you can get the upper shock mounts on the chassis, the more effective the shocks will be against torque twist.

chaplinfj60 said:
why cant the lower shock mount move inboard on the axle tube a inch or two
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Don't do this. Where the lower shock mounts are is pretty good. You want the shock mounted as close to the wheel as possible.

EDIT: Here's a picture of woody to help show what I am talking about. Probably not quite full flex, but if you look at the compressed shock on the rear and the compressed shock on the front, you'll notice they are pretty close to perpendicular to the axle tubes.
img_4040-jpg.jpg
 
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Another vote to move the upper shock mounts inboard.
 
Okay, I checked these shocks. Fully compressed on flex I’m between 85 and 81 degrees.

You guys are saying it’s worth making all new mounts for 5-9 degrees?
 
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FleshEater said:
Okay, I checked these shocks. Fully compressed on flex I’m between 95 and 99 degrees.

You guys are saying it’s worth making all new mounts for 5-9 degrees?
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Yes, and you'll be glad you did if you ever run bigger tires or go coil overs/2.5" shocks.

EDIT: What's really hurting you is how narrow your axles are. If you were running full width, you would probably have pretty good geometry with where your uppers are now. However, if you are going to stick with a ~37" tire, the narrower axles are a better choice.
 
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FleshEater said:
Okay, I checked these shocks. Fully compressed on flex I’m between 95 and 99 degrees.

You guys are saying it’s worth making all new mounts for 5-9 degrees?
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IMO yes for a couple of reasons. 1 is geometry. 2 they are FAR better protected inside the tube. 3 more tire clearance the better (things move more on the trail than forced flex in the shop). 4 you already had them mounted inside so easyish to put them back
 
'84 Bronco II said:
Yes, and you'll be glad you did if you ever run bigger tires or go coil overs/2.5" shocks.

EDIT: What's really hurting you is how narrow your axles are. If you were running full width, you would probably have pretty good geometry with where your uppers are now. However, if you are going to stick with a ~37" tire, the narrower axles are a better choice.
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Plan is to eventually upgrade.

Also, don’t forget that once I put spacers on this will all be 1.5” further away.

But I’m going to get precise numbers and try to get these as close to 90 degrees at flex compress as I can.
 
Pushed them in. Do I need to adjust my fronts in the 5 degrees?

I need to order new tabs for the rear so would just order new one’s for the front as well.

This should work. Zip tie mock up. :flipoff2:

EDIT: should’ve known I’ll be fabricating these shock brackets with an angle grinder. :laughing: Need 5” from the tube to center of bolt and I’m not wasting more time looking for these than it would take to make them.

IMG_3234.jpeg
 
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FleshEater said:
Do I need to adjust my fronts in the 5 degrees?
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I would.

FleshEater said:
EDIT: should’ve known I’ll be fabricating these shock brackets with an angle grinder. :laughing: Need 5” from the tube to center of bolt and I’m not wasting more time looking for these than it would take to make them.
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Do you have a tube bender? You could make mini shock hoops like this:
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_nc_ohc=GtaSX1zYGqUAb54Tb7I&_nc_ht=scontent-den2-1.jpg
 
No bender. Those would be handy right about now. :laughing:

EDIT: Actually, that gives me an idea to fabricate out a new storage area and tie the shock mounts in there. I also need a place for the rear suck down winch to mount to as well.
 
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My math was wrong on those shocks. :homer:

I have to do one or the other. Both just don’t fucking work. Either in board them and I end up at like 70 degrees when flexed, or keep them out and get them as close to 5-10 degrees as I can and land at 85-90 degrees when flexed.

I chose to get them close to 5-10 degrees.

These narrow axles are just hard to work with. Only other thing I can do is bring the bottom of the shock in.
 
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FleshEater said:
My math was wrong on those shocks. :homer:

I have to do one or the other. Both just don’t fucking work. Either in board them and I end up at like 110 degrees when flexed, or keep them out and get them as close to 5-10 degrees as I can and land at 90-95 degrees when flexed.

I chose to get them close to 5-10 degrees.

These narrow axles are just hard to work with. Only other thing I can do is bring the bottom of the shock in.
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I'm confused, where are you getting 110*?

IMO, this looks the best

IMG_3234.jpeg


This looks really close to 90, but not quite, which is why I think bringing them in like above would be perfect.

IMG_3225.jpeg


This is way to vertical also

IMG_3228.jpeg


Fwiw, this is where everyone is saying you want to shoot for 90* which why I don't see where you are getting 110*?

IMG_3225.jpeg
 
YotaAtieToo said:
I'm confused, where are you getting 110*?

IMO, this looks the best

IMG_3234.jpeg


This looks really close to 90, but not quite, which is why I think bringing them in like above would be perfect.

IMG_3225.jpeg


This is way to vertical also

IMG_3228.jpeg


Fwiw, this is where everyone is saying you want to shoot for 90* which why I don't see where you are getting 110*?

IMG_3225.jpeg
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The further in they go the further from 90 degrees they become. Plain and simple, 5 degree lean in will net me 90 degrees. 10 is 85 degrees.

The pic that looks the best as you pointed out is 70 degrees. I tacked it all up, flexed it and stuck the angle finder on it.

I understand where I’m looking for 90 degrees. But the fact is I can’t have both. Which is why they’re going to get mounted at 10 degrees in to match the front and I’m running it.

For the record, 5 degrees is into the tires currently, so I can’t even set it up that vertical, and 10 degrees is almost touching them.

This was about 14 degrees if I recall correctly, netting me 81 degrees at flex.
 
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I am confused how you're measurung as well, the more you tip the tops in, the lower the angle to the axle should be getting, not bigger. I also don't understand what you mean by not being able to have "both". What is the competing objective?
 
'84 Bronco II said:
I am confused how you're measurung as well, the more you tip the tops in, the lower the angle to the axle should be getting, not bigger. I also don't understand what you mean by not being able to have "both". What is the competing objective?
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You guys telling me to keep 90 degrees and in board the shocks more.

I’m telling you, the more I lean it in the further I get from 90 degrees. So I have to decide what’s more important. In boarded shocks or 90 degrees.

I’m laying a digital angle finder on the flat axle truss and running it up along the shock tube. So this is all measured properly. The last mock up I posted with zip ties net me 70 degree angle between the shock and axle.

Anyways, I’m setting them at 10 degrees in and moving on.
 
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So this angle finder I’m using rotates in the middle, so technically I guess as the shock is moving in towards the axle it’s actually 70 degrees. Not 110 degrees. Sorry for the confusion. Edited all my posts so this doesn’t get more confusing.

This buggy is frustrating me to the point I’m tempted to walk away for a few weeks.

Either way, it’s not 90. :flipoff2:

EDIT: I’m fawking retarded. My shocks are in at 85 degrees when they’re set at 10 degrees in. This shit is seriously taxing my brain, because I’m rushing this, trying to make it a roller. The angle finder I’m using is also not retard proof. :homer::laughing:
 
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FleshEater said:
So this angle finder I’m using rotates in the middle, so technically I guess as the shock is moving in towards the axle it’s actually 70 degrees. Not 110 degrees. Sorry for the confusion. Edited all my posts so this doesn’t get more confusing.

This buggy is frustrating me to the point I’m tempted to walk away for a few weeks.

Either way, it’s not 90. :flipoff2:

EDIT: I’m fawking retarded. My shocks are in at 85 degrees when they’re set at 10 degrees in. This shit is seriously taxing my brain, because I’m rushing this, trying to make it a roller. The angle finder I’m using is also not retard proof. :homer::laughing:
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Throw the angle finder away and get yourself a 2' framing square.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Man the pics must be deceiving, cause it sure doesn't look like it would be way past 90 at full flex, but whatever works.
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They are. It’s 20 degrees past. Cylinders are deceiving anyways. Even trying to find angle with my cube I check 3-5 different spots.
 
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