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1978 F250 400 Dual Fuel

previous tow rigs were too much to handle because they needed work.

So replacing your "just too good" tow rig with a project makes perfect sense.... :flipoff2::lmao:

*insert happy wife, happy life meme here*

it's pretty funny, as soon as I told the guy i'd give him $3k for this truck the wife instantly changed her tune and the suburban is no longer too big, smells funny (I've never notice) too sensitive of brakes, doors are too heavy, or it takes too much gas :laughing:

fwiw, I was happy with the 4runner and the candy van despite both being absolute piles :rasta:
 
As a lover of dentsides, and a notorious bad decision maker, how much do you want for that suburban?

I don’t think you are making a great choice here. An appliance is what you want for a tow rig. Excitement isn’t good when you are dragging a load somewhere.

But you seem committed to this already, so here’s my take.

-The dual fuel thing is cool, but can you get parts for it?

-Just go ahead and rewire the whole thing. You know it needs it.

- The rear is a Dana 60, right? If so I’d consider stuffing a 14 bolt under the rear. Spring perches and some driveshaft work will gain you a better rear end, more easily serviced brakes, and parts that are available everywhere. I’d shoot for 4.10s to make up for the smog era motor.

-E4od is a solid swap option. Expensive to build right, but they are big beefy units. You can hear horror stories about them in the 90s and early 2000s, but the aftermarket has figured out the e4od/4r100 shortcomings and any builder worth a fuck can build you a good one

-there’s not much to be done for power on a 400 without seriously getting into the motor. The factory heads suck, but what’s the point of putting $$$ heads on a stupid low compression bottom end? Then while you have the rotating assembly blown apart for new pistons, you might as well throw in a stroker crank. It snowballs quick

-33 gallon bronco tank to replace your rear one. You’re going to get single digit mileage, you might as well suck it up, drill a couple new holes, and try to get a 300 mile range out of the bitch

i'm probably going to list the suburban for $6,500 with most of that being due to the sub 20k mile motor. driver seat leather is worn, body has a dent in the rear quarter panel, paint isn't perfect, so i'm not sure i'll get that much for it, but probably close. I don't know what my bottom dollar is, but I probably won't take under $5k unless i'm right up against the wall in needing to move, or else i'll just give it to my dad or father in law. it's a great toaster.

the parts are all there for the propane setup, i'm going to check the lines eventually and the impco reseal/gasket kits are like $30.

the wiring is an absolute mouse nest :laughing: most of the stuff works, but yeah everything that gets touched will be planned on complete redo. broken up into small projects, figure it will get there eventually.

if I do a trans swap, it will be with junkyard parts. i'm not going to ever make enough power to hurt the OD trans and I figure it is likely the newer motors and their gobs of power that were causing the issues. but, O/D is just a nice to have

*one of these days* a turbo makes for an easy solution to the low compression issue. in my mind, the added bonus of propane means that likely some of the 50k miles (all original and no rollover, surely :laughing: ) were done with propane which is much easier on the engine, so i'm hoping the bottom end is in better shape than a comparable straight gas motor of the same year.

i'll have to look into the 33gal rear tank. with the current two that both seem to work I've got ~42gal on hand, which is what the suburban has. I rarely spend enough time putting a full tank in that thing, not sure that going up to ~55 gal of gas would benefit me much.



stupid newb question; I've heard dentside, fleetside, highboy, are these all the same thing? :confused:
 
Would love 7mpg with my 79. 460 likes to eat.

the motorhome has a (1993?) fuel injected 460 with e4od, pretty sure it was around 7 or 8 loaded for a week and towing a car on a dolly.

ran into a bit of knock induced timing retard going up hills and stuff, but running 87 octane will do that to a thing :laughing:


edit: that is another goat that would absolutely love to have a mild turbo installed.
 
Man, my grandpa used to have a 400 dual fuel truck. The nostalgia is real after seeing this truck
 
since it's 2wd, why not just find yourself the whole drivetrain from a wrecked chebby and do the whole damned thing.

6L LS and a 4l80 and you'll get 10.

I know, sacrilege.
 
since it's 2wd, why not just find yourself the whole drivetrain from a wrecked chebby and do the whole damned thing.

6L LS and a 4l80 and you'll get 10.

I know, sacrilege.

mostly for the goal of not doing anything too major, i.e. nothing that can't be done in about an afternoon and driving the next day type things. for the cost of the wrecked chevy, and for cheaper than the headache, i could do the topend on this thing and a junkyard 4speed and be about the same.

14bolt swap is in the cards regardless if/when a rear end gear change comes in to play
 
a valid approach.

this is going to sound stupid, but here we go: I just want to be able to drive it, reliability is important.

:laughing:

yup, selling off 1 way too reliable and the other surprisingly reliable vehicles for one that will certainly perform worse and is absolutely less reliable in every way. I know, I know! that's how the cookie crumbles :rasta:
 
because reasons.

is the only justification you need.
ain't my shit bud, i'm not that invested.
:flipoff2:

i appreciate the conversation :beer: i need to practice for the inevitable real life "ya autta jus LS swap it!" or cummin's or whatever those other diesels are called :flipoff2:
 
I don't believe in LS swapping all the things, just the things that make sense.


my brother and I are having a very real conversation about a mazda B motor in a Jeep willy's right now.
fits, makes 120HP, cheap, points the right way in the chassis for us to make the rest of the drivetrain work.

and yes, the irony of putting a modern japanese 4 banger in a willy's is not lost on us. I'm sure there will be people that hate it.
fuck 'em and feed'em fish heads.
 
I don't believe in LS swapping all the things, just the things that make sense.


my brother and I are having a very real conversation about a mazda B motor in a Jeep willy's right now.
fits, makes 120HP, cheap, points the right way in the chassis for us to make the rest of the drivetrain work.

and yes, the irony of putting a modern japanese 4 banger in a willy's is not lost on us. I'm sure there will be people that hate it.
fuck 'em and feed'em fish heads.

i tried to give my cousing a 22RE to swap into his ~1940's jeep years an years ago. the amount of hate that idea rec'd from everybody we pitched it to was impressive :laughing:

pretty sad day when he came home from college to find his parents had given it away :(
 
i tried to give my cousing a 22RE to swap into his ~1940's jeep years an years ago. the amount of hate that idea rec'd from everybody we pitched it to was impressive :laughing:

pretty sad day when he came home from college to find his parents had given it away :(

we've decided that we're going to build one scratchusing a phillipines tub.

so we're not ruining the purity, we're just making somehting new.


this was our initial practice project.
completely home built using a phillipines m100 tub.

received_364800184232592.jpeg
 
he hasn't. I keep telling him he needs to document it because we figured out some cool shit.

like how to put M416 hubs with much more commonly available parts onto the M100 width axle.

cause we discovered AFTER he built the frame and mounted the tub that the 416 donor axle was like 4 inches wider.
:homer:


it has an electric parking brake too, cause levers are for the peasants.
 
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Truck is :smokin:.

The not wanting to do anything too major is understandable. Think it would be pretty sweet with a 6.2 in it. Although, it might only get you 11-12 mpg.
 
micro update:

junkyard for a new rear window ($35), needs some cleaning but it already has edelbrock sticker on it, so i might as well go with the edelbrock intake instead of the weiand :(

and tax/shipping just under $350 for rear window seal, cab side door seals, roll up window seals set, center lap belt and parking brake cable.

once those come in i'm going to see just how much adjustment i can get out of the doors to try and get them to actually close and not just notionally close while banging all over heck on every pebble in the road and letting a whole tornado of wind inside :laughing:

it can only be better than what it is now, not looking for perfect.

and the old guy at work just might know where his holley manual choke 4 bbl carb is at, if so i'll probably buy that from him for ~$100.

went to clean up the van to sell it off, turns out the rust in the rear floor was substantially worse than i expected. taking longer to clean up, but it is good practice in making panels with the bead roller. I've got a total of 14 patch panels to make :laughing: at least this way i'll feel happy knowing that it is safe for whover buys it. no issues with the main "frame" rails of the unibody, but the rear seat was installed with some steel pucks under the floor and from those out, absolutely ate the shit out of the floor.

Overall it's a good thing because i was figuring i'd eventually buy the patch panels for the ford foot wells at ~$90 apiece, now i'm feeling much better about my abliity to make my own :)
 
added bonus, they are about half the price here in WA compared to TX while the burb and van seem to be about the same :eek: so buy the truck here, sell the other two here, drive to TX and probably sell the truck down there in a couple years when something else catches my eye :rasta:

Curious what the price was there, might have missed that. Growing up, there were several trucks of this vintage running around in the town I lived in. Still might be, but I don’t spend a ton of time there anymore.

I don’t see many here on the coast. Rust and most cheap vehicles driving south across the border are the main reasons for that.
 
Curious what the price was there, might have missed that. Growing up, there were several trucks of this vintage running around in the town I lived in. Still might be, but I don’t spend a ton of time there anymore.

I don’t see many here on the coast. Rust and most cheap vehicles driving south across the border are the main reasons for that.

I gave $2800 for this one. seemed like a bunch at the moment, seems about right after driving it. cruised craigslist in austin/houston areas and it looked like similar needs work, runs decent stuff was 5-6k. stuff that was already well worked up out here is like 8-10K and 12+ down there. way plus, low 20k's even :eek:

scrap or whatever used to be a $750 truck is now a $1500 truck out here, maybe 1200 or so in TX.

obviously your results may vary dramatically as i'm just going off craigslist for out of state.
 
I gave $2800 for this one. seemed like a bunch at the moment, seems about right after driving it. cruised craigslist in austin/houston areas and it looked like similar needs work, runs decent stuff was 5-6k. stuff that was already well worked up out here is like 8-10K and 12+ down there. way plus, low 20k's even :eek:

scrap or whatever used to be a $750 truck is now a $1500 truck out here, maybe 1200 or so in TX.

obviously your results may vary dramatically as i'm just going off craigslist for out of state.

Seems like a decent price. Honestly, I would expect to see that listed as a 5K truck here. Not saying people would pay that, but it wouldn’t shock me.

I passively watch for full size blazers, Broncos, ram chargers, 4 runners, etc. here. Going price for anything somewhat decent starts around 3k. Lower amounts (~1500) gets you a rusted beach ride that needs work while 5K might buy you something that still needs work but could be a dd. An hour or two inland can land you better deals.
 
M-Block 351M/400 Parts Reference (grantorinosport.org)

Stock Camshaft Duration Gross Lift Event Timing
D4AE-6250-A250/2720.428/0.433Intake: 17BTC/53ABC
Exhaust: 65BBC/27ATC

edelbrok performer plus 2172 cam ~$250 at jegs with lifters

  • Ford 351M/400
  • Lift: .484''/.510''
  • Duration @ .050: 204°/214°
  • Advertised Duration: 282°/292°
  • Idle-5500 RPM Range

and some other crower cams - 351C, 351M & 400 - Ford - Camshafts (crower.com)

15170 - $200

Performance level - Ball NoseINT/EXH - Dur @ .050” Lift: 202°/210° RR: 1.73/1.73 Gross Lift: .488”/.484” LSA: 112° RPM: 1500 to 5000 Redline: 5500


15241 - $200

INT/EXH - Dur @ .050” Lift: 214°/220° RR: 1.73/1.73 Gross Lift: .527”/.534” LSA: 112° RPM: 1500 to 4000 Redline: 4500


15975 - $190

INT/EXH - Dur @ .050” Lift: 204°/214° RR: 1.73/1.73 Gross Lift: .486”/.512” LSA: 112° RPM: 2000 to 4800 Redline: 5300

l1ooks like the crower 15975 is pretty close to the edelbrock, though i about think the smaller 15170 would be the "better" choice for something that is going to spend very little time at 4k+ rpm and a whole bunch of 2500. (based on i know nothing and am looking at numbers that are meaningless to me)

that's also a much further down the road thing so a phone call would certainly be in order. lifters + springs about double the price, plus a timing set, cam should have some decent gains but at a decent cost as well


edit: Crower will PAY YOU $10 to use their recommendation service prior to a camshaft purchase :smokin: :smokin:

Due to overwhelming demand, this cam recommendation is no longer free. You will be asked to pay a non-refundable $10 fee when you submit this form. However, you will receive a $20 discount when you order a camshaft. Only 1 discount will be offered per request.







Edit: edelbrock recommends 1-5/8" header tubes
 
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