1978 F250 400 Dual Fuel

[Provience]

Seems like a decent price. Honestly, I would expect to see that listed as a 5K truck here. Not saying people would pay that, but it wouldn’t shock me.

I passively watch for full size blazers, Broncos, ram chargers, 4 runners, etc. here. Going price for anything somewhat decent starts around 3k. Lower amounts (~1500) gets you a rusted beach ride that needs work while 5K might buy you something that still needs work but could be a dd. An hour or two inland can land you better deals.

prices are just nuts on everything. i've got to readjust my whole mindset the difference between "runs, is decent" and "complete shit for scrap" is pretty narrow, and then a massive jump for Pristine/full rebuild.

even the old buicks have nearly doubled in price for the 4 door cars. what used to sit for sale at $12k now seems to be actually moving around $20k

 

[Provience]

note about the cams:

Crower 15170 $197.43
Crower 84127 $250.23 springs/seals/keepers/lifters
Crower 86092 $14.32 ZDDP paste and oil

COMP Cams 249-2121 $59.99 Double Roller timing set (jegs)

$521.99 to move peak TQ up to 3000 rpm and peak HP to 4500 rpm with a 5k redline.

no idea really what they would move up to, but certainly away from the ~150 hp the book claims and the ~250 hp that hotrod claims they got with a stocker on the dyno

 

[Provience]

and garrett motion recommends for 475 HP target using the above camshaft (very roughly). needing ~3.5 psi at 3k rpm for 257 HP and 449 lbft (1.3 PR) and 8.4 psi at 4.5k rpm for 473 hp and 552 lbft (1.63 PR)


G-Series G42-1200 COMPACT


879779-5001S (about $3,400 at turbokits.com)

This is a water cooled and advanced design turbo:
Comp: 73mm inducer/91mm exducer/65 trim/0.9 AR
Turb: 82mm inducer/75mm exducer/84 trim (housing sold seperate)


or


GTW3884R


841297-5005S (about $900 at summit)

841691-5005S

This is available with a journal bearing or ball bearing (legacy design) and air/oil cooled, not water:
Comp: 67mm inducer/84mm exducer/64 trim/0.7 AR
Turb: 74mm inducer/65mm exducer/76 trim - only 1 housing available (sold seperate) 0.96 AR/T-4 inlet/V-band outlet/non divided

this is the compressor map for the above GTW3884R

The two dots represent peak TQ expected on the left and HP on the right, with a line between them to ensure we fit on the islands of function. these are at WOT, everything below these points will be fine because there will be reduced flow to the turbine, so no risk of overspeeding or choking it out

for the price minded shopper, going to super fancy ball bearings and water cooling and high efficiency 1,200 hp capable stuff just isn't quite worthwhile

and with all the doo-dads, add probably somewhere about $2-2.5k to get those power numbers. alternative would be pistons/heads and still wouldn't be near these numbers at this low of RPM

again, filed in the "probably never" time frame

 

[Provience]

'nother note on turbo:


VSR 67/66 Billet T4 – VSRacing (turbo4less.com)

This is our newest and greatest small frame turbo.

This turbo utilizes our point milled 67mm Compressor which is mated to our newly developed 66.1mm x 74.1mm 10 blade high efficiency turbine wheel.

Rated at 850 Flywheel

This turbo utilizes a T4 undivided .96ar housing or .81 T4 undivided
https://turbo4less.com/product/vsr-67-66-billet-t4-96ar/

https://turbo4less.com/product/vsr-67-66-billet-t4-96ar/

https://turbo4less.com/product/vsr-67-66-billet-t4-96ar/

these guys are significantly more stringent with information, but as far as "ebay cheap turbos", this is them and just might be the closest to the $900 garret ($1.5k after adding the turbine housing) and it is only $680 complete

looks like every time they label their turbo as a 67/66 (for example) or any other group of only 2 numbers, they are listing the Compressor Inducer and the Turbine Exducer.

some have the same compressor inducer number, but wildly different compressor exducers, which has got to make a difference on the compressor maps, but fawk me if i know yet...

 

[[486]]

for the price minded shopper, going to super fancy ball bearings and water cooling and

the water serves two purposes
one, you have a lot less oil flow through a ball bearing, and thus less cooling for the center housing
two, it passively cools the center housing after shutdown, from the thermosiphon of the water flowing through with properly routed piping
heat makes oil coke in the bearing housing, and when you shut it off all the heat in the 20lb turbine housing tends to spread out, if you run a blanket on it it's only got one way to go

that said, I ran a junk oil cooled diesel truck turbo on my fox body.
Really isn't a concern unless you're expecting a hundred thousand miles of life outta it with zero care for shutting it off with the turbine housing still glowing.

 

[Provience]

;n343440]

that said, I ran a junk oil cooled diesel truck turbo on my fox body.
Really isn't a concern unless you're expecting a hundred thousand miles of life outta it with zero care for shutting it off with the turbine housing still glowing.

if i could even afford $3k for a turbo in my head while day dreaming, i'd go for something like that with the water and the ceramics and such


"junk yard diesel turbo" - i've had a fairly tough time finding specifications for OE turbo's. how/why/what are you using to determine
1) that it would flow what you wanted
2) how much pressure to relieve it at
3) rough estimates of what kind of power you are making, for downstream livability concerns

 

[[486]]

"junk yard diesel turbo" - i've had a fairly tough time finding specifications for OE turbo's. how/why/what are you using to determine
1) that it would flow what you wanted
2) how much pressure to relieve it at
3) rough estimates of what kind of power you are making, for downstream livability concerns

I did all the math for the compressor side on one setup long ago. Never again.
turbine side math is even more arcane

just buy something that's a factory turbo (none of that hybrid aftermarket bullshit where they toss a huge compressor on a tiny turbine that was the restriction to begin with)

it's pretty reasonable to figure that you can get something like 400hp worth of air through a 60mm compressor inducer, 600 through a 70mm, just general guesswork is good enough for sizing
for turbine housing sizes, go with the "smaller" one on a diesel, go for the "larger" ones on a gas motor

don't bother with an internal wastegate on a spark ignition engine, just go straight to an external. Go with a bigger wastegate than you think you'll need, I've got a 60mm on my shit because boost creep results in engine death because you'll run out of fuel eventually
diesels do a lot better with overboost, as you run out of fuel eventually

 

[A_G]

i bought my coworkers 68 f100. He had a ford 400 with twin turbos...they were turbos of a h1 and they were very crudely mounted on, he did suck through and it made enough power to break the rear axle...thats all i got.

I need to inventory what im doing but i may have some 400 parts im not going to use. i know ive got a extra set of ford racing roller rockers

 

[Provience]

;n343848]
I did all the math for the compressor side on one setup long ago. Never again.
turbine side math is even more arcane

just buy something that's a factory turbo (none of that hybrid aftermarket bullshit where they toss a huge compressor on a tiny turbine that was the restriction to begin with)

it's pretty reasonable to figure that you can get something like 400hp worth of air through a 60mm compressor inducer, 600 through a 70mm, just general guesswork is good enough for sizing
for turbine housing sizes, go with the "smaller" one on a diesel, go for the "larger" ones on a gas motor

don't bother with an internal wastegate on a spark ignition engine, just go straight to an external. Go with a bigger wastegate than you think you'll need, I've got a 60mm on my shit because boost creep results in engine death because you'll run out of fuel eventually
diesels do a lot better with overboost, as you run out of fuel eventually

thanks i'm learning lots and taking a whole bunch of notes appreciate the ideas

 

[Provience]

i bought my coworkers 68 f100. He had a ford 400 with twin turbos...they were turbos of a h1 and they were very crudely mounted on, he did suck through and it made enough power to break the rear axle...thats all i got.

I need to inventory what im doing but i may have some 400 parts im not going to use. i know ive got a extra set of ford racing roller rockers

right on do you know if he did any other bottom end stuff or just crammed the turbos through the stock pistons/rods? that's about the last part that i'm having a harder time finding information on. lot's of people getting rid of stock pistons to get away from the 8:1 compression ration, so not lot's of people putting power into them to see what they take

 

[arse_sidewards]

right on do you know if he did any other bottom end stuff or just crammed the turbos through the stock pistons/rods? that's about the last part that i'm having a harder time finding information on. lot's of people getting rid of stock pistons to get away from the 8:1 compression ration, so not lot's of people putting power into them to see what they take

Stock cast crap is fine until you run lean and start detonating. Then you're fucked pretty instantly. For what you want to do it will be fine. Just don't get greedy and turn up the boost or lean it out.

 

[Provience]

Stock cast crap is fine until you run lean and start detonating. Then you're fucked pretty instantly. For what you want to do it will be fine. Just don't get greedy and turn up the boost or lean it out.

i'd like to thing that "getting on the freeway" and just maybe "passing a semi on the freeway" aren't too greedy of goals

 

[[486]]

i'd like to thing that "getting on the freeway" and just maybe "passing a semi on the freeway" aren't too greedy of goals

leave it stock right down to the 2 barrel carb
guaranteed it makes more poop than my IDI, and that thing is good for 'freeway speeds' when loaded to 16k
The tires are not good for it, but we're not talking about those.

 

[Provience]

;n344537]

leave it stock right down to the 2 barrel carb
guaranteed it makes more poop than my IDI, and that thing is good for 'freeway speeds' when loaded to 16k
The tires are not good for it, but we're not talking about those.

it'll run freeway speeds as is, certainly. the onramp is where i can notice the mid-upper RPM power drop off and ~2nd gear at 60mph for passing would be the other place it would be evident. those would both benefit from a different intake. cruising around town would make no difference.

also, because that stuff is relatively cheap and quick, it's easier to do for immediate results

 

[KungFooMASTA]

Please put a turbo on the 400.

 

[Provience]

Please put a turbo on the 400.

it'll be a long way off, that's for sure

then i'd need to figure out how to adapt it to a GM trans and i could have a Turbo 400 pushing a Turbo 400

 

[arse_sidewards]

it'll be a long way off, that's for sure

then i'd need to figure out how to adapt it to a GM trans and i could have a Turbo 400 pushing a Turbo 400

OMC ran GM trans behind Ford smallblocks in a lot of boats. Just gonna junk the right boat and you get a free adapter.

 

[A_G]

right on do you know if he did any other bottom end stuff or just crammed the turbos through the stock pistons/rods? that's about the last part that i'm having a harder time finding information on. lot's of people getting rid of stock pistons to get away from the 8:1 compression ration, so not lot's of people putting power into them to see what they take

not a fucking thing.

He drove it like 8 years like that, moved himself from Wisconsin to oklahoma with it.

He used the gm37 (?, they are on top of my tool box at work ill look) which is the turbo that comes on the H1 6.5 diesel.

Being suck through he used 2 edelbrock 650 cfm carbs, had a 4 barrel intake and roller rockers. but bottom end was stock and the engine was 30 years old at the time. It did die about 5 years ago, he was driving and it lost oil pressure and it seized before he could get it pulled over.

Im pulling that engine here in a few weeks and im gonna tear it down to see if its worth keeping ill let you know what i find.

 

[A_G]

it'll be a long way off, that's for sure

then i'd need to figure out how to adapt it to a GM trans and i could have a Turbo 400 pushing a Turbo 400

https://www.jegs.com/i/J+W+Performa...v4PiVS9tmE1JQHq05VQhITaXamT09ymQaAv8zEALw_wcB

 

[Provience]

https://www.jegs.com/i/J+W+Performa...v4PiVS9tmE1JQHq05VQhITaXamT09ymQaAv8zEALw_wcB

that's hilarious

 

[Provience]

not a fucking thing.

He drove it like 8 years like that, moved himself from Wisconsin to oklahoma with it.

He used the gm37 (?, they are on top of my tool box at work ill look) which is the turbo that comes on the H1 6.5 diesel.

Being suck through he used 2 edelbrock 650 cfm carbs, had a 4 barrel intake and roller rockers. but bottom end was stock and the engine was 30 years old at the time. It did die about 5 years ago, he was driving and it lost oil pressure and it seized before he could get it pulled over.

Im pulling that engine here in a few weeks and im gonna tear it down to see if its worth keeping ill let you know what i find.

awesome, good to hear. dual 650's sounds way overkill, but too much is safer than too little

if you want to sell one of them toolbox turbos for cheap, let me know

also, i could use the intake too. might not need a carb, but i'll know this week if the old guy has one

 

[A_G]

awesome, good to hear. dual 650's sounds way overkill, but too much is safer than too little

if you want to sell one of them toolbox turbos for cheap, let me know

also, i could use the intake too. might not need a carb, but i'll know this week if the old guy has one

They arnt even worth the cost to ship them. They are terrible turbos

So bad you cant convert the flange.

Also by the time i got them they had gotten water in them and they are trash.

Get yourself a ebay turbo or like a gt38 off a 7.3 atleast those you can get different housings for them and get them on a t4 flange and get different wheels and compressor housings.

 

[Provience]

They arnt even worth the cost to ship them. They are terrible turbos

So bad you cant convert the flange.

Also by the time i got them they had gotten water in them and they are trash.

Get yourself a ebay turbo or like a gt38 off a 7.3 atleast those you can get different housings for them and get them on a t4 flange and get different wheels and compressor housings.

alright, so you think 1 would fit into a cube flatrate box or do you think it would take 2 flatrates? i'd buy a trash turbo for $20 + shipping and in no hurry at all. next time you happen to be at the post office or whatever.

never had one to take apart in my hands, not sure i trust a $150 chinese unit just to take apart

flanges are stupid anyways

 

[A_G]

alright, so you think 1 would fit into a cube flatrate box or do you think it would take 2 flatrates? i'd buy a trash turbo for $20 + shipping and in no hurry at all. next time you happen to be at the post office or whatever.

never had one to take apart in my hands, not sure i trust a $150 chinese unit just to take apart

flanges are stupid anyways

maybe? its a cast iron turbo..its fucking heavy.

ill send you some photos with measurements tomorrow

 

[Provience]

maybe? its a cast iron turbo..its fucking heavy.

ill send you some photos with measurements tomorrow

If it becomes a hassle, don't worry about it though i do appreciate the effort


minor update on the truck and reason #3 I hate WA state. (it's high on the list and i know other states do it as well)

went to the department of licensing office near my work to transfer the title, they use the computer to tax at vehicle value. being over 20 years old, the gal pulls up Haggarty's and Edmunds and it says, $11,000 they need to use "good" and can't adjust it down without a separate form filled out and signed by the seller stating the actual vehicle description and issues/damage. Bill of sale doesn't fly.

so my options were to pay $1200 to transfer it then or track him back down, state that it is a rusty and poorly running pile of a project truck that leaks all over hell with a broken rear window and unhooked fuel systems (all true) so that i can get the stated value to go through....then it will only cost me $400 !!!!!

this seems way more expensive than the last several times i bought a vehicle. even the gal behind the counter was surprised as hell at the $11k valuation. "are you sure it is an F250 and not a F150? let me check that......nope, nope. you don't even want to know what that jumps up to"

 

[A_G]

If it becomes a hassle, don't worry about it though i do appreciate the effort

No hassle

I actually didnt come in here intending to sell you anything

 

[Provience]

No hassle

I actually didnt come in here intending to sell you anything

well suck it nerd, i'm trying to buy stuff and the "swap meet ford 400" market is for shit out here


also swap meets still aren't legal yet :(

 

[[486]]

so my options were to pay $1200 to transfer it then or track him back down, state that it is a rusty and poorly running pile of a project truck that leaks all over hell with a broken rear window and unhooked fuel systems (all true) so that i can get the stated value to go through....then it will only cost me $400 !!!!!

took me three trips to get the title for my datsun that I bought without a title

once to pick it up
to the dmv to find out I need a signed bill of sale
go get that from the guy
find out I need four pictures of the shit
get those
find out the bill of sale isn't good enough, they need THIS bill of sale instead
go get that one signed by the guy
then they finally took the shit and I got a title in the mail a couple months later
probably 1000 miles of driving when it could have been 75, maybe 120 tops

 

[Provience]

;n348264]

took me three trips to get the title for my datsun that I bought without a title

once to pick it up
to the dmv to find out I need a signed bill of sale
go get that from the guy
find out I need four pictures of the shit
get those
find out the bill of sale isn't good enough, they need THIS bill of sale instead
go get that one signed by the guy
then they finally took the shit and I got a title in the mail a couple months later
probably 1000 miles of driving when it could have been 75, maybe 120 tops

that's nuts

when i bought the suburban, the guy put the wrong YEAR on the transfer date so they wanted to tag me for a few hundred in late fees. Mailed the guy the form, he had to get it notarized and mailed back, then took it in

i'm surprised you would get hassled that much in the frozen cold north. sounds like some coast state zaniness.

 

[arse_sidewards]

I got a Lesbaru with BOS and no title. I just figured out which state it was written in, requested proof of ownership paperwork from their DMV and brought that plus BOS to my DMV. And then I found the title buried under a bunch of shit in the glove box.