1959 GMC 2 ton bus - 4x4 swap

[350TacoZilla]

I guess 365 to 385 is less than 1" wider and both 385 and 425's are mounted to the same 12.25" wide rims usually, and 425's are like 1.5" wider than 385.

Always saw those tires in 335\80R20 or 365\80R20, neat to see in different size.

 

[thatbus]

I guess 365 to 385 is less than 1" wider and both 385 and 425's are mounted to the same 12.25" wide rims usually, and 425's are like 1.5" wider than 385.

Always saw those tires in 335\80R20 or 365\80R20, neat to see in different size.

Yeah, weird huh? Makes me wonder if the military is leaning into 22.5's now. They could have gone with normal military 20's for these Humvee variants, but for whatever reason chose 22.5's, and not typical sizes either.

Shame I couldn't find the 22.5x9 wheels Eastern Surplus has. Those will fit 295's, 315's, etc.

Think it will be fine running 385's? I tried both 315's with the internal beadlock and 385's - both sealed up just fine and held air, beads appeared to seat properly. I know it's the wrong wheels size, but you can get 385's that fit 11.00" wheels and these are 10.50"...

 

[350TacoZilla]

Hopefully others will weigh in but I don't see an issue with it. Even the military themselves run 395\85R20-14.00r20 on the standard 5ton and FMTV wheels, those are only 10" inside bead if I remember correctly.

 

[thatbus]

Hopefully others will weigh in but I don't see an issue with it. Even the military themselves run 395\85R20-14.00r20 on the standard 5ton and FMTV wheels, those are only 10" inside bead if I remember correctly.

Yeah from what I gather the bead profile is more important than the rim width; i.e. it's dangerous to put 20" MPT tires on certain 20" rims, but of the rims that work, there's over a 2" width variation.

 

[thatbus]

Not a big update, just working on a "flange" between the firewall and the doghouse:

Making hammer forms out of MDF worked well.

First time since art school that I did sheetmetal work... good enough for being covered with adhesive firewall insulation or something...

 

[Grendel]

Not a big update, just working on a "flange" between the firewall and the doghouse:

Making hammer forms out of MDF worked well.

First time since art school that I did sheetmetal work... good enough for being covered with adhesive firewall insulation or something...

Sand filled leather bag is your friend.

I used to make a lot of armor.

My last set:

 

[thatbus]

Sand filled leather bag is your friend.

I used to make a lot of armor.

My last set:

Sick stuff man. The helmet and the beads rolled on the forearm parts (gauntlets? vambraces?) look great. I'll give a sandbag a shot.

 

[Grendel]

Vambrace and rearbrace.

 

[PAToyota]

I'd have gone for a hammerform too for rounding an edge like that over. A sandbag is great for freeform stuff, but I'd want a formed edge for that. MDF tends to break down quickly, though, depending on how hard you're hitting it. Also, a flat faced body hammer does a better job than a rounded ball peen face (or sledge!).

 

[thatbus]

I'd have gone for a hammerform too for rounding an edge like that over. A sandbag is great for freeform stuff, but I'd want a formed edge for that. MDF tends to break down quickly, though, depending on how hard you're hitting it. Also, a flat faced body hammer does a better job than a rounded ball peen face (or sledge!).

Yeah, having played around with a sandbag and more hammer forms the past few days, I agree.

If I didn't have spare MDF lying around from an old bed frame, I'd of used plywood. With that said, the MDF did a fine job and only cracked in one area where there wasn't much support from a sawhorse.

Did a bit more work on it today, fitting well so far:

Where the skinny pedal and seat will roughly be. The doghouse is much longer than necessary, will cut it to fit - probably around where my heel is:

 

[PAToyota]

Looking good! And you can never have too many Clecos!

 

[thatbus]

Looking good! And you can never have too many Clecos!

Thanks! That's why I put my money into the Clecos themselves, rather than the expensive-ass pliers...

Works just fine!

 

[PAToyota]

I think I got my pliers with the first batch of Clecos I bought. Like this: Amazon.com

 

[thatbus]

Something unexpected:

Picked up a Dana 70F for free yesterday. Guy was going to machine my new wheels, we got talking, and he had this lying around.

Not sure what I'll do with it, but I'm seriously considering putting it under this bus. It's already got 4.10 gears, 35 spline. My current Dana 60 1480 Ujoint shafts fit perfectly.

Studs were seized in the housing. Tried welding a nut onto them, but the studs just sheared... brought the drill press down to the floor and drilled them out - actually worked pretty well:

At 7" dia. and 5/8" thick the kingpin balls and knuckles seem pretty damn big - I recall that they were used on axles up to 6,000lbs for Loadstar 1600 D70F's and the same balls and knuckles on one of the 9,000lb axle options under Loadstar 1700's. Is the downside here the lack of steering angle, and obsolete seal parts, not strength/metallurgy? A sealed knuckle is attractive considering the bus will see a lot of road miles and we have so much salt on our roads in the winter...

I see these top out at 31° steering angle. I could not get more than 35-37° with the size of tires I'm running, position of the springs, etc, for what it's worth.

Is there any sense even considering these big closed knuckles, or will I always be ahead with open knuckle C's? Even if I run small Dana 60 inner C's cut off from a bad housing and gusseted (the budget friendly option)? Alternatively if anyone has larger aftermarket/big Dodge 60/Dana 70 C's to sell, please let me know. $650 CAD just for some C's is the best I can find so far...

 

[Grendel]

What's the tube diameter?

I'd go with 2013+ F550 inner and outer knuckles with all the fixins. The brakes are amazing, as is the turning radius.

I would try to get as much turning angle as possible.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Disc brake swap and fucking run it.


Sure you'll be making more 3pt turns but the perfect is the enemy of the good enough and what you just lucked into is pretty damn good for your application.

Grease the exposed sealing portions of the knuckle ball if it's gonna sit for more than a month (week if parked within 1mi of the ocean).

 

[350TacoZilla]

What's the tube diameter?

I'd go with 2013+ F550 inner and outer knuckles with all the fixins. The brakes are amazing, as is the turning radius.

I would try to get as much turning angle as possible.

Did ford run the same inner C's\knuckles and such on the 2wd beam axles under the F450-550? If so that might be a cheaper way to get the knuckles\C's since he wouldn't need the center section\gears.

 

[Grendel]

Did ford run the same inner C's\knuckles and such on the 2wd beam axles under the F450-550? If so that might be a cheaper way to get the knuckles\C's since he wouldn't need the center section\gears.

Yes, I think so.

 

[thatbus]

Disc brake swap and fucking run it.


Sure you'll be making more 3pt turns but the perfect is the enemy of the good enough and what you just lucked into is pretty damn good for your application.

Grease the exposed sealing portions of the knuckle ball if it's gonna sit for more than a month (week if parked within 1mi of the ocean).

Yeah if I could make my current brakes work on the cheap I'd just run it. Kingpin 60 DRW hubs mates up just fine, and I can use typical Warn D60 lockouts. Problem is the spindle is 5 lug not 6, and I have GM wedge-type calipers. Would these Ford brackets fit those GM calipers? QU20574U Used Dana 60 Left Disc Brake Caliper Anchor Plate

There's a lot of meat around those 5 lugs so I could take them up to 5/8" easily, or add additional bolts. However I would prefer not to modify the existing brake brackets in case I sell the old D60.

If that won't work, then I'm guessing my next best option is finding a slide bolt caliper which is easy to fabricate a bracket for, just need one of a good size that fits GM D60 DRW rotors...

Most costly option would be what the "seller" did with one of his own D70F's; put on DRW D60 hubs, cut off the rotor mount, weld on one with a new bolt pattern, fab a new caliper bracket, and run Ram 5500 calipers.

What's the tube diameter?

I'd go with 2013+ F550 inner and outer knuckles with all the fixins. The brakes are amazing, as is the turning radius.

I would try to get as much turning angle as possible.

Would be nice... I'll price out my options and consider that. Shame it has to be 2013+ as the older SD60's with the shitty unit bearings came with an 8x225 pattern that would nearly bolt right up to my new wheels - only minor machining needed.

 

[thatbus]

Tube diameter is 3.58" OD and 0.375" wall thickness by the way.

 

[Grendel]

. Shame it has to be 2013+ as the older SD60's with the shitty unit bearings came with an 8x225 pattern that would nearly bolt right up to my new wheels - only minor machining needed.

You could use these, they just not as BIG - Wheel pattern is actually a spacer.

The late model 2004 ones were decent.

 

[shortbus4x4]

Do you know what the Dana 70F came out of? Dodge and International both had Dana 70s in the front of their 1 ton 4x4s. And International also used it under the Loadstar 1600s. Did it have the hubs and brakes too? With 4.10 gears I'd say Dodge is the most likely candidate.

 

[thatbus]

Do you know what the Dana 70F came out of? Dodge and International both had Dana 70s in the front of their 1 ton 4x4s. And International also used it under the Loadstar 1600s. Did it have the hubs and brakes too? With 4.10 gears I'd say Dodge is the most likely candidate.

I'm pretty certain it was dodge, but I don't know if it was medium duty (W400/500/600) or what. The guy did have IHC D70F's, and used to have at least a few Dodge D70F's - one of which is not under an econoline van. It had large drum brakes, roughly 12-14" dia.

For anyone curious; the spindle bushing needs replaced to work with modern 1.50" 35spl shafts. New one needs to have a 1.750" body OD with a flange OD of 2.000", flange depth of 0.063", and 1.000" total depth. Torque King sells one that's $$$ but I imagine any with those dimensions will do.

 

[Grendel]

I am still pitching Super 60 stuff. Can also run their 35 spline shafts, that have 1550 u-joints.

Run 04 wheel bearings, with the 04 rotors on the later model knuckles/calipers and use the OEM wheel spacer that matches your rear end.

 

[thatbus]

I am still pitching Super 60 stuff. Can also run their 35 spline shafts, that have 1550 u-joints.

Superduty stuff would be cool, what's keeping me away from it is being invested in kingpin stuff and being unlikely to make much money back versus the cost of superduty stuff over here, given I'm working with a tight budget. Two years ago a KP60 would fetch $1200 here, and a SD60 about $500... Now it's the reverse and kingpin parts are difficult to sell.

With the size of tires I'll be running, pitman location, etc. I have around 37° steering anyways. The big brakes are appealing though...

 

[thatbus]

Bit of an update here...

I bought new bolts for the spindle... Te threads (1/2-20 fine, not even 1/2" deep, in a cast knuckle ) were predictably rusty and loose. One thing lead to another and I ended up tapping a few more holes per knuckle for studs...

...and then drilling out the existing holes for splined studs.

Would've ended here if the original holes were centered about the bosses in the casting - but most weren't even close, so studs wouldn't sit right.

Managed to counterbore/spotface the original holes, which worked remarkably well for such a janky drillpress as this.

Much better.

I also welded new TRE inserts into the knuckle, to accept typical D60 tierod ends. Preheated, hit with nickel 55 rod, and cooled nice and slowly.

Also cut off the original rear-located tierod's ends (passenger side being forged right into the tierod itself, kind of dumb) and bored a hole to accept a weldable bung. I intend to keep the rear-mounted tierod as it keeps the hydraulic cylinder safe from being hit, and protects the tierod behind a bottom-mounted trust - going to use the same design as on the D60 I built.

For such a little drill press it does a great job...

Work has been slow since I've been working on other buses, to pay for this bus. Replaced an entire floor in the most recent one:

The build quality on these newer buses - this is a 2010's Corbeil on a Chevy 4500 chassis - is noticeably shittier than the old stuff. Massive gaps between panels that can't be sealed, so rust jacks between the floor and subframe in a 4mm gap.

 

[thatbus]

Small update here.

Built a truss for the Dana 70F - same design of a bottom truss acting in tension, as used on the old Dana 60F - but with a bit more ground clearance. Proud of how my fab skills have improved since that one. Doing in a day what I used to do in a week...

I will also be using massive 15.3" rotors: More Information for RAYBESTOS 680943R - the small "hat" on them, at only 1.96" total width, makes them viable without needing a caliper bracket that has odd bends in it. at 1.535" wide, I'll probably use 2016 F-550 calipers. Cheap and easy to find on a variety of Ford and International platforms, easy to mount.

Wheels are also getting machined. Since these are practically unobtanium, I'll be entrusting a friend who builds top fuel drag bikes with 'em... He does solid work.

 

[thatbus]

Been preoccupied with other bullshit in life, but in the meantime...

Got some massive 15.5" rotors in the mail. These dwarf the GM D60 DRW rotors - make 'em look like toys!

I also had two rings laser cut to adapt this new rotor to the old D60 hub.

As you can see in the photos above and below; the larger ring is press fit over the existing rotor flange on the D60 hub. The smaller 4-bolt ring then slips over the existing lip on the hub, to form a new, concentric lip for the new rotor to register against. This is important since the outer circumference of the hub's spoke-like flange is not machined for concentricity.

By tapping the larger ring slightly below the existing machined rotor surface, then bolting the new rotor to it, the ring should be drawn upwards against the new rotor, which at the same time is being pulled "into" the machined surface. At that point, I can then weld the ring in place. I'm not sure if that makes sense. If it does, I hope that means I should end up with very little rotor runout by installing the ring this way.

Big advantage of these rotors is that I can make a caliper bracket that goes straight out. No need for bends or weird geometry. With a 1/2" thick bracket, I have 1/4"" of clearance between it and the rotor.

 

[thatbus]

Liking how this turned out. My poor man's dial indicator showed 0.010" of runout at the outer edge. I think that'll be fine...

I've settled on '04 F450/550 calipers (18-B8047 and 18-B8046), but would like some measurements before I pull the trigger and purchase. I'd seriously appreciate the following; distance from the inside rotor surface to the threaded caliper bracket mounting hole, the distance between those two threaded mounting holes, thread diameter of those holes.

 

[thatbus]

Hubs and brakes are coming together nicely, just waiting on another laser-cut set of plates - with that and a bit of welding they'll be done:

Also machined a little 3/4" plate to lift the steering arm up a touch...

Found 1/2-20 tapered nuts with grade 8-like tensile strength, and some grade 8 all-thread (tough finding all-thread stronger than B7, and finding studs with fine threads on both ends was goddamn impossible).

Seal surface was touched up too.

Finally got the hydro steering sorted out on this axle. I'll need a 11" cylinder or 12" with an internal stop, but mocked up with the 8" D60 extend to the correct length. Fitting a cylinder that long on this axle while maintaining clearances was a bitch and a half...

It's mounted low, but the bottom truss completely protects the cylinder and tierod, which is nice.