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1.75 or 2" 120 wall for cage on this IH Scout II.

Winchested

Winchested

IH Scout SSII
Joined
Jun 19, 2020
Member Number
2128
Messages
1,411
Guys I've almost rolled this shit twice now it's likely inevitable that I do!

Friend has dies for 1.75 120 wall

If I have to go 2" dies are like $850 from TMR

Scout weighs in at 5800 lbs without me in it.

Ill be building off of a Heep TJ main bar.

I have D&C extreme plate legs that go up the side of the dash and tie into the frame/ body mounts A pillar.

Would I be fine using 1.75" 120 wall to tie the windshield and head bars into the other.

The main hoop plates will be tied into the frame too.

Just a low speed rock crawler, no racing.

Do street drive it but not like a retard. Too slow for that.

Here's a sketch of my idea. And a photo of the rig.

16563365479691266965559932673898.jpg
20220520_171902.jpg
 
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Winchested said:
Just a low speed rock crawler, no racing.

Do street drive it but not like a retard. Too slow for that.
Click to expand...

I don't understand this logic.
You can crash at speed on the road too. Why would you build an inferior cage based on the premises that you "don't drive fast", when you actually do ?

Go 2". Nobody has ever regretted going overkill on a cage that can save your life.

Winchested said:
Here's a sketch of my idea. And a photo of the rig.

16563365479691266965559932673898.jpg
Click to expand...

Needs more triangles.
 
Factor the cost of the 2" die + the 2" DOM against buying an extra stick of the 1.75" x .120 and add some triangulation to your cage or even 2 sticks of the 1.75" DOM and you are still ahead of the cost of the 2" DOM + the die and your rig will have a stronger cage because it will have more triangulation. It all depends on how much you want to spend, but triangulation is your friend no matter what size DOM you get. Again if money is a factor I'm building it out of the 1.75" DOM with more triangulation, since he has access to the 1.75" die. You can always use HREW with more triangulation and save even more, but that's your call.
 
I'd ditch the multi-bolt together TJ main hoop and build something more stout. It's pretty thin wall stuff too... I chopped one up a few months back... couldn't give it away. The main hoop is the weakest part of your cage...
1656359512956.png
 
I think it'd be easier to ditch wrangler crap and start fresh. That way you can do one run for A to C pillar, make your B pillar a straight down tube where ever you see necessary and have tie ins for the spreaders going from each corner to a midpoint node rather than parallels down the center.
 
Something more like this crude AF sketch...

I like to stick with A-C pillar hoops and side to side spreaders because they slide over trees/rocks, etc way easier than bumps created by having separate A,B,C pillar hoops and using spreaders fore to aft.

You'll be fine with 1.75 as long as you throw in more triangulation and proper tie ins.

16563365479691266965559932673898.jpg
 
Definitely ditch the Heep bar and build it from scratch. That's going to be a 6k+ rig when you're done adding tube, it will either need 2" and a simple-ish design or 1.75" with more bracing.
 
Thanks guys appreciate the advice completely. If I was to ditch the heep bar I'd be building a full cage all the way to the rear, but I want to keep 3 pt belts to be legal so id need A,B,C and D pillars.

If this is the case I might just wait til I can cross the fucken border, maybe one day when I'm not a political prisoner in my country and buy a full D&C extreme cage kit, might be cheaper in the long run.
 
For that weight, 2"x .120". If you want you could use 1.75"x.120" for the X braces as long as there's no bends in it.

I would not use any of the factory roll bar if you're already going to the trouble of buying tube and pulling out the bender.


When I was in the design stage of my cage and thinking about what would be the worst roll I could foresee. Getting cut off on the freeway at 80mph was way up on the list. That's go fast desert territory with a better chance of hitting a solid object.
Another thing to consider with a full cage on the street. Chances are you're not going to be driving around with the waist belt and shoulder straps so tight they almost hurt. So with loose belts and maybe even not using the shoulder harnesses, you will absolutely come in contact with the cage if something bad happens. Heads and DOM tube don't play well together. Quality rollbar padding anywhere your head, arms or legs can make contact.
 
Yotota said:
Definitely ditch the Heep bar and build it from scratch. That's going to be a 6k+ rig when you're done adding tube, it will either need 2" and a simple-ish design or 1.75" with more bracing.
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This, absolutely
 
It's your life, so do what you think is best...

Basically every race car I've ever seen is built with 1.75" x 0.093" tube throughout for the structural elements of the rollcage. While the weight may be 40% lower, the speeds at which accidents happen are much higher. If properly designed I would not be afraid of 1.75" x 0.120" tube. While the more expensive classes may use Chromoly tube, using a good grade mild steel DOM should be sufficient as that's what all the "lower" classes run (compact/hornet, hobby stock/bombers, B-mod/light mod/limited mod, even some of the street stock/pro street variants).

Again, it's your ass on the line, but I'd have no qualms of running the 1.75" tubing (again, properly gusseted and designed). As I'm in dirt track country I personally use the same 1.75" x 0.093" mild steel DOM that is readily available around here for dirt cars.
 
I would also ditch the dash plates, during a roll-over they just fold up. Tube through the dash on a scout is not too difficult, its how I did mine.

I would recommend building your own vs buying D&C cage.

My only regret doing my Scout cage was bending a B pillar and building off of that vs doing one tube A to C pillar with a straight B pillar.
 
Covecrawler said:
I would also ditch the dash plates, during a roll-over they just fold up. Tube through the dash on a scout is not too difficult, its how I did mine.

I would recommend building your own vs buying D&C cage.

My only regret doing my Scout cage was bending a B pillar and building off of that vs doing one tube A to C pillar with a straight B pillar.
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Pics for reference? I’m interested
 
AKnate said:
Is that a plaid pants pic of a boner? :lmao:
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Oh you caught that haha! Wondered how "long" it would take.... But no boner sorry just a wee smeckle.

I'm not ditching the plate legs as everything in my dash is still original and functional need access to the glove box as that's where the TBI computer is. Street driven rig so have to have parking brake accessible also.

The D&C extreme kit is exactly that a B pillar main hoop, windshield bars, D pillar mount with crossbars CB bars and Atari bars. Then I can triangulate windshield frame, I am putting an under dash bar in too to cross stiffen those plate legs. Their kit is also all 2" DOM.
 
Another vote for ditching existing TJ bar. I'd go with 1.75x01.20. Only reason to do 2.0x0.120 would be if you plan to race, then you might start requiring it for U4 or similar.
 
JohnnyJ said:
Another vote for ditching existing TJ bar. I'd go with 1.75x01.20. Only reason to do 2.0x0.120 would be if you plan to race, then you might start requiring it for U4 or similar.
Click to expand...
Okay that makes sense. Thanks. No racing ever in my future with this rig.
 
What's the cost of this existing cage kit from d&c? If it's close to the cost of a 2" die and tube I'd go that route.

Same amount of cash, the 2" is more appropriate size tubing IMO (racing or not shouldn't matter, not sure why people use this reason to cut corners on a very important part of a rig). 6K+ is heavy and rolling at speed or not is going to suck either way and a 2" cage may handle more than one roll over where as a 1.75" may require redoing after a roll or be totally useless as a cage. Also, said kit is already bent/notched/etc.

I'd go 2" all day if it were me and not use any of the tj cage. 2" with appropriate triangulation should out last the rig and anything you throw at it.
 
It will cost me say $3k likely cdn to get the D&C cage shipped to Canada. Cheaper if I can cross the border when fuck tard Biden and turddoh let me cross and I can pick it up in Port Huron Michigan.

The 180* 2" protools die from TMR is $850w/tax.

Or I can buy the Kaka ind. Manual bender with a 120 deg 2" die for $1200. Tube is going to cost me $1k at least for 2" Hrew or $1500 for DOM.

So I'm thinking the D&C is the way to go. And I can just triangulate it more as time and $ allow.
 
Bender I have access to can only handle up to 134 wall tube so that's out.

Ill order the D&C this fall/ winter
 
I had a D&C cage in my Scout way back when, with Atari bars and all that. It was pretty solid and well designed. I haven't heard a lot from them since Damon(?) got run off the forums and he sold out.
 
Okay bringing this junk back from the dead.

I finally got my 2" die for my Ez Bend 90. Earlier measurements are 75-80 ft of tube for a basic cage.

Heres my idea, is it good?

Plan on a lower windshield bar, a knee bar under the dash to tie the plate legs together. 1 or 2 bars vertical on the windshield.

Ill likely just buy 100 ft of 2" Hrew as DOM is retarded up here in canaduh.

I'm thinking about a seat belt bar for the front seats and also a bar behind the rear seat. Its a regular bench. I want the bar removable behind the front seats. I have a set of 2 2" tmr inserts.

I was thinking the inserts under for the under dash bar too.

Scout side.jpg
Scout top.jpg
 
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