RamRunner Refresh

[75RamRunner]

Well she's back! Definitely a big change in feel from the 8hp, i forgot what driving a non-lockup trans around feels like, gotta get reused to that.

1st is definitely quiet a bit higher which was known, but it cruises in 3rd at around 3200 and 67 so its not unreasonable to street it around. going to try to get to the mountains this weekend and give her a trail run down if i can free up some time

The engine braking is a cool feature, interested to see how that helps in the rocks going downhill

 

[75RamRunner]

Very uneventful break in trip, which was a very welcomed change of pace from my usual "when will it start acting up" trips

Went out with Hooligan and his well put together TJ, brought the whole fam in the rig. Definitely need to get reused to the higher 1st gear. not an issue just not used to a 2.5x higher low-low.

Couple items i do want to address

Trans pan has no temp sensor, already drained the fluid, probably pull the pan tonight and drill and tap it for a sensor (its one of them thick cast units)

We built this motor quiet a bit "looser" with more piston to wall clearance for the extended idle-2500rpm times, as such when you first romp it 3500+ she puffs a decent amount of blowby. I have one breather hooked to the vaccum port on the holley, think im going to change the atmosphere one to the port in the air intake and see if itll pull it into vaccum when i jump on it. Could also go back to the exhasut evac system i had on one fo the old configurations, it worked well.

I have a top end oil leak that has to be a valve cover, which is my least favorite leak to chase. Mopars big blocks have some pretty big spacing between hold down bolts and the gasket warps. The stamped steel valve covers arent helping either. Going to try to track down some of those older mopar performance black wrinkle covers.

When i did wilwood brake upgrade i apparently didnt reseal the axle well enough, its got a slow leak at the hub and its going to drive me nuts to leave it alone.


Mostly tinkering nonsense, which is something im happy to do compared to the major components ive been dealing with lol

 

[ridered3]

AWESOME on getting the entire family out! What did the kiddos think/how'd the newest do with the trip?

 

[75RamRunner]

AWESOME on getting the entire family out! What did the kiddos think/how'd the newest do with the trip?

Well this is my oldest about 4 seconds into any trail ride

Youngest is super observant right now and loves the rumble/vibration, he went out shortly after. We ate at the first water crossing and he fell asleep right as we were crossing back and then didn't wake up until the staging area

He's almost big enough/has enough head control i can harness him into one of those UTV jumper seats, just not quite there yet at 5 months.

Very fortunate the boys love the same hobbies, we also make it a point to involve them in our life hobbies not to go on without them when its not convenient.

Both kids were in the trailer camping no later than 6 weeks old, my oldest has fallen asleep in my past 800hp drag truck doing rolling burnouts with 5" straight pipe. Apple doesn't fall far from the tree

 

[ridered3]

That's awesome all around and some parenting done right too!

 

[75RamRunner]

Took the pan off and drilled and tapped a 1/8 npt port for the sensor, got that all buttoned up tuesday actually but i had to order a new pan gasket. Did my damnest to save it but it ripped as the pan came off so had to order a new one from summit, fortunatley the reno warehouse is basically next day shipping for my location so thats nice. Got it on last night and refilled the pan.

On the trail i picked up a wood screw, right in the middle of the tire below a lug, i just screwed it all the way in for the trail run but it was flat last night. I really dont want to dismount and argue with a tire shop about patching it so i think im just going to plug it.

Headed to moonrocks with the fam this weekend in the golf cart and quad, need to get the top on the truck as the rain is here

 

[75RamRunner]

Quick day trip again to fordyce with the family

Trans is running hot again, just like my 727 was. I think the combo of 2500+ stall, 43s, and 700hp is just asking a lot at low speeds. Going to double check the aux trans cooler plumbing and make sure its in series after the radiator cooler. Only other thing i can think of is getting a larger cooler and putting it in front of the radiator with its own dedicated pusher fan.

Truck ran at 175-185 all day, trans got up to 250 going up to sunrise but sat around 220-230

 

[Bebop]

What trans cooler are you using?
What do you consider hot?

 

[75RamRunner]

What trans cooler are you using?
What do you consider hot?

is a derale standalone with a fan. it kept the 727 under 210 most the time. Trans fluid goes through the radiator, then to the standalone, then back to the trans

The th400 got up to 250 this trip, that feels hot. I know the non-lock-up 3 speeds run warmer, but i was thinking 180-210 operating not 220-250 operating. If im wrong learn me something?

 

[Bebop]

is a derale standalone with a fan. it kept the 727 under 210 most the time.

Derale has sooo many versions. Could you be more precise?

Trans fluid goes through the radiator, then to the standalone, then back to the trans

Delete the radiator loop. ASAP.

The th400 got up to 250 this trip, that feels hot. I know the non-lock-up 3 speeds run warmer, but i was thinking 180-210 operating not 220-250 operating. If im wrong learn me something?

Nah I agree with your temps.

 

[BroncoJoe96]

I’m also interested in what cooler you have. I burnt up a transmission (My fault. No gauge and running it through the radiator for cooling only) and after that didn’t want to ever have to worry about it again, so I run 2 big Derale coolers with 2 fans each, and bypass the radiator completely. Fans automatically kick on at 185 degrees, plus I have an over ride switch that I normally turn on as soon as I hit the trails. So far, even with the fans off, I haven’t been able to heat up the trans past 200 degrees much, if at all. And that’s in a similar rig. 8,500 pounds, 44s, decent torque from the 7.3 Powerstroke, etc. It’s likely overkill, but I like the redundancy. If one begins to leak, I can bypass it and likely still have enough cooling.

You can see them up front in this picture. If you want any close ups, let me know.

 

[Mad Max]

...where is your trans temp sensor? If it's in the pan then good - that's the 'overall' trans temp of fluid, but if it's in the output line then it'll always read 'hot'...

 

[Outahand]

Where is your trans temp sensor located?

I was always under the impression the radiator coolers were very effective. You should run through that and then an external.

 

[rattle_snake]

fluid-fluid is way more efficient than fluid-air exchange.
but
using 180-220* coolant to 'cool' the trans below 210 is not efficient. Minimal temp delta.

I'd skip the radiator and only a large dedicated trans cooler. Large like almost radiator size. No fan to fail.
This is a Ford 6.0 trans cooler. Cheap and not aftermarket crap.

 

[71PA_Highboy]

Got a part number for that cooler?

And in northern climes you can make the fluid too cold. How are you keeping it at proper operating temp? Mixing valve?

 

[Bebop]

Got a part number for that cooler?

And in northern climes you can make the fluid too cold. How are you keeping it at proper operating temp? Mixing valve?

Depends what your use is.
They make thermostats for oil control.

The 6.0 powerstroke cooler is awesome, have used it on a couple of builds and it's a veryyyy good performer.

 

[75RamRunner]

Derale has sooo many versions. Could you be more precise?


Delete the radiator loop. ASAP.


Nah I agree with your temps.

I could be more precise, but that would require me laying in the mud in my side pasture to find out what one i put in 6 years ago I'll find out, its not big though, 18"x14" with a dedicated fan. Its on a manual switch so i cut kill it going through water crossings, i normally kick it on as soon as i see the gauges move from 150.

...where is your trans temp sensor? If it's in the pan then good - that's the 'overall' trans temp of fluid, but if it's in the output line then it'll always read 'hot'...

I drilled and tapped a port in the bottom 1/3 of the pan. Learned that lesson already lol

fluid-fluid is way more efficient than fluid-air exchange.
but
using 180-220* coolant to 'cool' the trans below 210 is not efficient. Minimal temp delta.

I'd skip the radiator and only a large dedicated trans cooler. Large like almost radiator size. No fan to fail.
This is a Ford 6.0 trans cooler. Cheap and not aftermarket crap.

I was always under the impression the radiator cooler was the best way to go because it would get the fluid up to operating temps quickly but then hold better, apparently i am misinformed.

To be clear the trucks ECTs modulate between 175-185, the BAF radiator and dual fan setup that Bebop educated me on last year kicks ass.

my head was originally going to this last idea, big trans cooler from a modern diesel in front of the radiator with the OG cooler and fan combo inline on the way back as redundancy/added cooling. The cooler is mounted to the floor board tucked up behind the Atlas inside the frame rails, so there's less than zero air flow at that location hence my thought for the fan.

My only thought/concern with the air/air is during slow crawling it wont be able to disperse much heat, itll basically just be a heat sink no?

 

[Bebop]

My only thought/concern with the air/air is during slow crawling it wont be able to disperse much heat, itll basically just be a heat sink no?

Engine fans will take care of that.

 

[BroncoJoe96]

My dad had an issue with his 70 Bronco that he installed a 90s OBS Ford trans cooler on. It was fine on the road, but on the trails it’d heat up and start causing his truck to run warm/hot. He relocated it, and it solved his problems.

 

[arse_sidewards]

My dad had an issue with his 70 Bronco that he installed a 90s OBS Ford trans cooler on. It was fine on the road, but on the trails it’d heat up and start causing his truck to run warm/hot. He relocated it, and it solved his problems.

Considering how low strung both those vehicles are and how much the front end cooling **** has in common it sounds like an underlying issue that he fixed by accident.

 

[BroncoJoe96]

Considering how low strung both those vehicles are and how much the front end cooling **** has in common it sounds like an underlying issue that he fixed by accident.

It was a pretty definitive fix. He had struggled with the truck running warm for a long time, went through and replaced the water pump, thermostat, radiator, etc, and nothing helped. When we eventually got around to figuring it out, he ran the truck on the trails in the morning, it was getting hot, and then we relocated the trans cooler while eating lunch. Then the truck ran cool the entire afternoon and ever since.

That was with a trans cooler that only covered about 1/3rd of the radiator. I know the old Broncos have small radiators, but it still made me weary to cover up a radiator on a vehicle that is going to be subjected to low speed crawling.

 

[75RamRunner]

Engine fans will take care of that.

There you go with that ****ing logic again. I was thinking the infrequency if them being on but then so is the coolant and its fine.

Why would the radiator cooler not make sense still then? Fluid-Fluid has better thermal properties, at hottest its getting up to 195 before it kicks fans on, is the delta for 250-190 just not enough to cool the trans fluid vs the ambient air-250 being he base principle for separating them?

It was a pretty definitive fix. He had struggled with the truck running warm for a long time, went through and replaced the water pump, thermostat, radiator, etc, and nothing helped. When we eventually got around to figuring it out, he ran the truck on the trails in the morning, it was getting hot, and then we relocated the trans cooler while eating lunch. Then the truck ran cool the entire afternoon and ever since.

That was with a trans cooler that only covered about 1/3rd of the radiator. I know the old Broncos have small radiators, but it still made me weary to cover up a radiator on a vehicle that is going to be subjected to low speed crawling.

Airflow is always the hardship on slow stuff.

 

[Bebop]

Why would the radiator cooler not make sense still then? Fluid-Fluid has better thermal properties, at hottest its getting up to 195 before it kicks fans on, is the delta for 250-190 just not enough to cool the trans fluid vs the ambient air-250 being he base principle for separating them?

The heat exchanger is not big enough inside the rad.
Conceptually, you are correct.
But in real life you would need a much bigger heat exchanger to do what you want.
Something like this:

 

[Outahand]

The heat exchanger is not big enough inside the rad.
Conceptually, you are correct.
But in real life you would need a much bigger heat exchanger to do what you want.
Something like this:

If you could package one of these would you still need another air to fluid cooler, or would this do the whole job? It looks badass.

 

[arse_sidewards]

If you could package one of these would you still need another air to fluid cooler, or would this do the whole job? It looks badass.

It just puts more heat out of the trans and into the rad. That doesn't change the amount of heat the radiator can reject. But a lot of vehicles have plenty of radiator so it's probably a good trade.

Personally I'd run a cheap Chinese water to air intercooler with oil where the water goes and coolant where the air goes.

Marine heat exchanger (like the big one for engine coolant) is also an option. They're kind of huge though.

 

[Bebop]

If you could package one of these would you still need another air to fluid cooler, or would this do the whole job? It looks badass.

It would do the whole job. That's kind of the point.
But you need a big badass radiator setup cause now it has to cool both your engine AND your trans.

 

[rattle_snake]

Got a part number for that cooler?

And in northern climes you can make the fluid too cold. How are you keeping it at proper operating temp? Mixing valve?

31 Row Transmission Cooler Ford 5C3Z-7A095-B​

Yes the fluid can be too cold. For me in AZ, that hasn't been the case. Later I went to a 6R80 which has a t-stat, that I chose not to remove. I have never seen it go above regulation even in most extreme conditions. There is an equally large A/C condenser in front of the trans cooler, and a steering cooler in front of that. Mechanical clutch fan.

 

[rattle_snake]

It's possible to plumb a bypass around the radiator cooling loop with a pair of ball valves, or a bypass type valve. Could see what difference it makes and decided from there.

 

[75RamRunner]

Okay so i'm traveling for the next 4 days so naturally were going to order parts while im gone. I'm leaning towards Trans outlet ->6.0 Cooler in front of radiator -> Derale cooler under chassis -> Trans

Any reason to run the derale cooler/fan combo prior to the 6.0 cooler?

Any reason to leave it plumbed to the radiator, then go to 6.0 cooler and derale? Was thinking for faster warmup in the cooler climates.

 

[Bebop]

Okay so i'm traveling for the next 4 days so naturally were going to order parts while im gone. I'm leaning towards Trans outlet ->6.0 Cooler in front of radiator -> Derale cooler under chassis -> Trans

Any reason to run the derale cooler/fan combo prior to the 6.0 cooler?

Any reason to leave it plumbed to the radiator, then go to 6.0 cooler and derale? Was thinking for faster warmup in the cooler climates.

Just leave out the stupid Derale unit.
Less **** to go wrong with less stuff.
And that 6.0 PS cooler is huge. It'll be fine on it's own.