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MMW Dana 300 waiting list

So apparently, JB gears were NEVER a hold up. Interesting.
 
JR4X said:
Imagine getting the blame publicly and you know it’s not really on your end. Like I said, I don’t know what’s true and what isn’t but JB is still in business.
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Isn't that how it works? You blame your fuckups on others and make it their fault? Seems like the prevailing business model these days.....
 
JR4X said:
Imagine getting the blame publicly and you know it’s not really on your end. Like I said, I don’t know what’s true and what isn’t but JB is still in business.
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I wouldn't be shocked if there was a few week 'lead time' on orders for JB's gears....but that's not really what was conveyed in this MMW mess.
 
How many sets of D300 gears do you think JB sold per month to the general public up until MMW started buying them up in bulk?
 
JR4X said:
Just saw this on a TMI ad on Facebook. Owner of JB. Another ding in the story line if true, I wouldn’t know if it is or isn’t. Just a datapoint to add here.
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Well that’s different than what I’ve experienced from jb in the past. But the last few years that I’ve checked they’ve always had gears in stock on their site. So it’s probably true. Hoping tmi can do this right.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Behemoth use JB gears too? They were shipping fast and often in stock.
 
94toytruck said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Behemoth use JB gears too? They were shipping fast and often in stock.
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Yes, Behemoth does....and lead time is generally a few weeks (I think 5 weeks was what I was quoted) at most....but I'm not sure how much of that is Behemoth vs. JB's gears. Probably just depends on when you ask.
 
JR4X said:
I get the desire to have an alternative to an Atlas because they’re expensive. What I don’t get, is having less transfer case for more money. An opted out Atlas II is $3300 with shifters. What are you getting in a D300 for $3,900 dollars that would make one even consider doing that? Y’all know that the gears and shafts inside of an atlas are bigger better than a D300 right?

This is from AA case builder right now. They’re delivering in 5 to 6 weeks right now. Randy Slawson often has them on the shelf and the last time he was trying to sell a couple he was asking $3K for them.
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Less is a perspective. In the case of the Total Metal Innovations Magnitude 205 it is quite a bit shorter than the Atlas, MUCH larger gears, shifts better, billet vs cast case, with in lbs of the same weight as an Atlas 2. The Magnitude 300 is slightly plus or minus the strength of an Atlas and significantly smaller. So what is the advantage of an Atlas?

The photos below are of an Atlas and the Magnitude 205.

IMG_5961.JPG


IMG_5950.JPG
 
I hate to be that guy but for a lot of us that have been watching the advantage to a Atlas is they're still here. Buying something new and exotic is cool. Till the company folds up for some reason or changes hands. There's something to be said for a product that's been around for decades and still supports their product.
 
Tyler@TMI said:
Less is a perspective. In the case of the Total Metal Innovations Magnitude 205 it is quite a bit shorter than the Atlas, MUCH larger gears, shifts better, billet vs cast case, with in lbs of the same weight as an Atlas 2. The Magnitude 300 is slightly plus or minus the strength of an Atlas and significantly smaller. So what is the advantage of an Atlas?

The photos below are of an Atlas and the Magnitude 205.
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I’ve seen your pictures and sales pitches on line. Keep reading this thread, last post up before yours if you want to know what I publicly think about TMI, FYI for the record. Don’t want you to think I’m talking shit about you for one second.


Gearing: is the advantage. I don’t have much use for your available gear ratios personally while Advance Adapters and Phenom have you BURIED in gear ratios. You have what? Two ratios for the magnitude? 1.96 and 3.0? Now before I go any farther would you tell us all the actual cost of a complete Magnitude case with 3:1 gears 32 spline outputs and yokes. Any configuration you want, I want out the door cost. Let’s do the same with your D300. Total cost complete case with 4:1 gears 32 spline outputs and yokes.

I can find those costs myself but that’s not the point. Can you be honest with us… here… out in the open? Not hidden in private messages and emails?
 
94toytruck said:
I hate to be that guy but for a lot of us that have been watching the advantage to an Atlas is they're still here. Buying something new and exotic is cool. Till the company folds up for some reason or changes hands. There's something to be said for a product that's been around for decades and still supports their product.
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I have a mmw 300 and just bought an atlas for the next phase. I’m done considering “boutique” vendors for transfercases. Stak,d&d, hero, mmw, first generation behemoth just to name a few that have came and gone with no customer support. That’s not what I want 10 years down the road.
 
JR4X said:
I’ve seen your pictures and sales pitches on line. Keep reading this thread, last post up before yours if you want to know what I publicly think about TMI, FYI for the record. Don’t want you to think I’m talking shit about you for one second.


Gearing: is the advantage. I don’t have much use for your available gear ratios personally while Advance Adapters and Phenom have you BURIED in gear ratios. You have what? Two ratios for the magnitude? 1.96 and 3.0? Now before I go any farther would you tell us all the actual cost of a complete Magnitude case with 3:1 gears 32 spline outputs and yokes. Any configuration you want, I want out the door cost. Let’s do the same with your D300. Total cost complete case with 4:1 gears 32 spline outputs and yokes.

I can find those costs myself but that’s not the point. Can you be honest with us… here… out in the open? Not hidden in private messages and emails?
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I never thought you were talking shit about what my company is doing.

We haven't been selling completed cases, so the honest answer is I don't know the exact retail cost of a completely assembled case. We have done a couple of assembled cases for customers but it has been on a trial level with us paying retail for all the parts we do not manufacture. Completely assembled cases were not the focus of the Magnitude at least at first, we are seeing a need for this to change. Proper product design and extensive product testing were our main focuses. Next was getting the manufacturing process under control including increasing our in-house manufacturing capacity, understanding the supply chain for materials, dialing in supply chain lead times, and how much material we need to keep on hand. This was followed by the release of the Magnitude 205 at our $2199 introductory price. We are not at a point where we want to offer fully assembled cases quite yet with a generalized here is what you get here is what it costs.

I am fully aware that doesn't exactly answer your question but it is the best answer we are prepared to give on assembled case prices. I'm sure I could pop up some dollar numbers, which likely wouldn't hold for long as we negotiate with suppliers for discounts on items we do not manufacture such as bearing kits, the Lomax gears, seals, hardware, etc.

I have chosen to take releasing our Magnitude line in small manageable steps that will allow us time to grow. This has given us time to scale our manufacturing without over-promising. Could we release the 300 or reduction boxes now yeah probably, but it wouldn't be the correct way to do business. We can all see what has happened with companies in the past.

So far most of our Magnitude 205 customers that I have been able to talk to directly have stated they were replacing an existing iron case 205 or an Atlas due to needing a stronger option than Atlas provides in conjunction with the over-inch-less case height.

The Magnitude 205 or our soon-to-be-released Magnitude 300 are not for everyone, we understand that and didn't design either case with everyone in mind. They were both designed and built for the user who has demanding needs. The Magnitude 205 offers maximum strength in an incredibly compact package for users needing 1.96:1 or 3:1 or wanting to upgrade an existing iron case 205. We built the Magnitude 205 at a physical size and weight comparable to an Atlas with much-increased strength. In some measurements, it's physically smaller.

Magnitude 300 is for the customer that needs the most compact option, much smaller than an Atlas, with fitment issues in compact buggies that will not fit other options yet still be a very tough option. With large numbers of potential customers already running stock case D300's it's a logical choice for us to support this market as well.

Would I like to have a higher volume of Magnitude 205 sales currently sure, I'd also love to win the lotto. Judging on the number of cases we have sold in a few months and the volume of customers contacting us about the Magnitude 205 I am reassured that it was the correct decision to invest company capital into building this product line.
 
Here’s some internet math for you, making all the assumptions necessary to figure this out.

A complete Lomax 205 case from JB conversions is $3395.

The diy Lomax 205 kit with just the case and gears is $1995.

$3395 - $1995 = $1400 so let’s say it takes $1400 in parts and labor plus a gear set and a case to build an all new np205.

TMI case is $2199, Lomax gears are $1595 plus the $1400 in everything else equals $5194 to build a TMI 205 with all new parts.


For comparison the pro series atlas with super finish gears and short 300m output comes out to $4070.
 
Rangerrod said:
I have a mmw 300 and just bought an atlas for the next phase. I’m done considering “boutique” vendors for transfercases. Stak,d&d, hero, mmw, first generation behemoth just to name a few that have came and gone with no customer support. That’s not what I want 10 years down the road.
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Total Metal Innovations is not exactly new here! We have been building parts for off-road and local industries since 2011. Sure the Magnitude product line is newly released, and we were very aware we would have to dig ourselves out of a hole dug by other transfer case companies. We went into this knowing we faced an uphill battle.

This is why I have been careful to be 100% sure we were pacing ourselves with product releases and not allowing pre-sales, funding this new product line 100% out of my own pocket and company assets. Sure it would have been easier to take a bunch of pre-sales and use the pre-sale money to help fund the the new product development, material, etc.

The fact is there was a void in this market one that I fell into myself. We are attempting to fill this void with a line of new products. More options are good for the market, competition will ultimately benefit the off-road community.
 
benw said:
Here’s some internet math for you, making all the assumptions necessary to figure this out.

A complete Lomax 205 case from JB conversions is $3395.

The diy Lomax 205 kit with just the case and gears is $1995.

$3395 - $1995 = $1400 so let’s say it takes $1400 in parts and labor plus a gear set and a case to build an all new np205.

TMI case is $2199, Lomax gears are $1595 plus the $1400 in everything else equals $5194 to build a TMI 205 with all new parts.


For comparison the pro series atlas with super finish gears and short 300m output comes out to $4070.
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Yup, it costs more for a stronger billet case. You're not comparing apples to apples here the 2:1 205 gears have a much larger gear contact than the Atlas Trail or Pro Series case. Step up to the wider 3:1 Lomax and they don't even compare.

If you want to compare the Atlas to another case you should be comparing it to the Dana 300 or Magnitude 300, not a 205. They are in an entirely different strength class.
 
Tyler@TMI said:
Total Metal Innovations is not exactly new here! We have been building parts for off-road and local industries since 2011. Sure the Magnitude product line is newly released, and we were very aware we would have to dig ourselves out of a hole dug by other transfer case companies. We went into this knowing we faced an uphill battle.

This is why I have been careful to be 100% sure we were pacing ourselves with product releases and not allowing pre-sales, funding this new product line 100% out of my own pocket and company assets. Sure it would have been easier to take a bunch of pre-sales and use the pre-sale money to help fund the the new product development, material, etc.

The fact is there was a void in this market one that I fell into myself. We are attempting to fill this void with a line of new products. More options are good for the market, competition will ultimately benefit the off-road community.
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I’m very optimistic to your approach to business. I think empty cases makes the most sense. And I think if mmw would have stuck to that they would still be around. I wish you the best of luck. And if a 205 was available in 4:1 you would have gotten my consideration.
 
Tyler@TMI said:
Less is a perspective. In the case of the Total Metal Innovations Magnitude 205 it is quite a bit shorter than the Atlas, MUCH larger gears, shifts better, billet vs cast case, with in lbs of the same weight as an Atlas 2. The Magnitude 300 is slightly plus or minus the strength of an Atlas and significantly smaller. So what is the advantage of an Atlas?

The photos below are of an Atlas and the Magnitude 205.

IMG_5961.JPG


IMG_5950.JPG
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Gearing options? I think that's the biggest advantage the Atlas has over a 205 based case. EDIT Late to the party...
 
Rangerrod said:
I have a mmw 300 and just bought an atlas for the next phase. I’m done considering “boutique” vendors for transfercases. Stak,d&d, hero, mmw, first generation behemoth just to name a few that have came and gone with no customer support. That’s not what I want 10 years down the road.
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As someone with two Hero 3speeds....I get exactly where you're coming from.
 
The 300 market has really only ever needed a replacement case.. the 300 gearset is not comparable to atlas gearset strength. I've r&d this subject thoroughly lol. We've only ever had a 3.1 aftermarket 205 gearset available so I don't see why people whining for 4.1. Do toyota math then and get 1.whatever and add rangebox. Tyler I understand what your doing with the 205, kudos to you. Can't wait for a replacement case 300 for rock donkeys.
 
POR said:
The 300 market has really only ever needed a replacement case.. the 300 gearset is not comparable to atlas gearset strength. I've r&d this subject thoroughly lol. We've only ever had a 3.1 aftermarket 205 gearset available so I don't see why people whining for 4.1. Do toyota math then and get 1.whatever and add rangebox. Tyler I understand what your doing with the 205, kudos to you. Can't wait for a replacement case 300 for rock donkeys.
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What about the Lomax 4:1 gears for the D300? Visually, they look at least as strong as Atlas. Just wondering as the D300 is on my list for a tiny buggy b/c of the size.
 
Sean said:
What about the Lomax 4:1 gears for the D300? Visually, they look at least as strong as Atlas. Just wondering as the D300 is on my list for a tiny buggy b/c of the size.
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They are not.. you break the teeth on the middle shaft. Low max claim to fame was.. that shaft machined one piece vs friction welded like the Terra low was.. I've never seen or heard of that weld failing, it breaks the teeth. Atlas always has been and will be the upgrade for people breaking 300's. I'm not sure why that math has gone awry over the last few yrs. 300's live in portal cars and very very lightweight nonv8 buggies. The market needs the replacement case because when you wash that broken tooth through, it spreads and cracks the case. The low max gearset will fail in the same scenario as Terra gears even with the "20%" stronger claim.
 
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