Wonton YJ, LS power thoughts

[KB6Chris]

Working on getting a plan together for winter upgrades on the ol '91 YJ.

I bought it stock with a body lift and about 4 or 5 years ago I put together and swapped in a super duty 10.5 with a detroit and 5.38's and a welded Dana 50. Rubicon express leafs, SYE, crossover steering, etc


Still running the stock 4.0/AX15/231 with close to 200k on the clock. Needless to say she has trouble pushing the 38's past 55mph and when she does she starts getting warm. It's gotten the job done all this time but the desire for more power has gotten ahold of me.

I found a running driving '05 GMC 2500 for $2500 to pull the 6.0 LQ4 and 4l80. Was actually a pretty decent truck for the money. Everyone around here wanted close to $2000 for just an engine and trans so I went with the whole truck.

Plan is to run Holley Terminator X Max setup for engine/trans controls. :Edited (Added specific Holley Setup)

One of my dilemmas is which transmission to go with? I have a 95+ NV4500 I was thinking about using. Only real reason is do to where I mostly ride being sand bottom creeks. When I drive off into a soft spot I can always put it in 4low and first or reverse on the AX15 and it will crawl out of the hole while keeping wheel spin to a minimum.

I've never wheeled with an automatic and wondered if you can control wheelspin with the 4l80 the same way, or close enough to get the job done?

Example of soft spot I was able to crawl out of.

I guess the NV4500 would also be shorter which would help with rear driveshaft.

Which transmission would you guys go with?

 

[RunningProblem]

Why not use the engine and transmission controls from the truck?

Good deal buying the whole truck. You can probable slowly sell parts from it and recover $2,000.

 

[Rockwood]

XJ information, but an AX-15 rear driveshaft is an inch longer than the auto's driveshaft. An LS swap with auto results in a 1" SHORTER drivetrain than the 4.SLO/AW4, so based on this logic crazy train, an LS swap should be about the same length. At worst, we're talking an inch or so, and unless you're my wife, not gonna miss that anyway.

 

[fl0w3n]

XJ information, but an AX-15 rear driveshaft is an inch longer than the auto's driveshaft. An LS swap with auto results in a 1" SHORTER drivetrain than the 4.SLO/AW4, so based on this logic crazy train, an LS swap should be about the same length. At worst, we're talking an inch or so, and unless you're my wife, not gonna miss that anyway.

Damnit, you just made me realize I might not actually be fine with reusing my front shaft in the rear when I go to AX15/Ecobox-I/300. Tcase setup is already going to be shorter than a 231 and didn't realize the AX15 is shorter as well

 

[Rockwood]

Damnit, you just made me realize I might not actually be fine with reusing my front shaft in the rear when I go to AX15/Ecobox-I/300. Tcase setup is already going to be shorter than a 231 and didn't realize the AX15 is shorter as well

Probably not. My front shaft on an AW-4/231 is showing a decent amount of splines as it is…

 

[KB6Chris]

Why not use the engine and transmission controls from the truck?

Good deal buying the whole truck. You can probable slowly sell parts from it and recover $2,000.

I was thinking that an aftermarket harness/ecm would clean up the swap a little and make tuning easier on down the road when/if I decide to make some power upgrades. Plus the guy buying the rest of the truck wanted the ecm/harness.

XJ information, but an AX-15 rear driveshaft is an inch longer than the auto's driveshaft. An LS swap with auto results in a 1" SHORTER drivetrain than the 4.SLO/AW4, so based on this logic crazy train, an LS swap should be about the same length. At worst, we're talking an inch or so, and unless you're my wife, not gonna miss that anyway.

That makes me feel a lot better. I'm not opposed to stretching the rear more if I have to either. I just need to bust out the tape measure and see

 

[RunningProblem]

If the guy buying the truck wants the harness then sell it to him. The factory harness would t be any different than aftermarket though. It’s plugs and wires. Plenty of tuners exist, and plenty of people use GM wiring harnesses for tuning. The wires don’t know they’re wrapped with Holly logos or not.

 

[KB6Chris]

If the guy buying the truck wants the harness then sell it to him. The factory harness would t be any different than aftermarket though. It’s plugs and wires. Plenty of tuners exist, and plenty of people use GM wiring harnesses for tuning. The wires don’t know they’re wrapped with Holly logos or not.

Dollars aside, what advantage does the factory ECM/harness have over the Holley?

 

[RunningProblem]

Dollars aside, what advantage does the factory ECM/harness have over the Holley?

Holley's Terminator X Vs. GM Standalone ECU For LS Swaps

One of the most important decisions you'll make when performing an LS swap is selecting an ECU. In this article, we compare Holley's Terminator X Max and a GM ECU.

www.lsxmag.com

Gauges stand out to me.

Full disclosure: I don’t know anything about LS Swaps or LS engines. I just find websites.

 

[Rockwood]

Painless sells new harnesses as well

 

[KB6Chris]

I appreciate the ideas about harness and engine controls and will think about these options. But does anyone have any insight on my main concern right now over auto vs manual for transmission. Again, it really boils down to controlling wheel spin in wet sandy trails.

 

[RunningProblem]

Does the 2005 have the option of manually selecting gears in the automatic?
Best way I’ve found to control wheel speed is the throttle input between my ears.

 

[Rockwood]

I appreciate the ideas about harness and engine controls and will think about these options. But does anyone have any insight on my main concern right now over auto vs manual for transmission. Again, it really boils down to controlling wheel spin in wet sandy trails.

As long as you run a stock or very mild converter and cam profile, I don't see an issue with being able to keep throttle inputs smooth and even. They were designed for soccer moms to ferry kids around.

 

[chaplinfj60]

Does the 2005 have the option of manually selecting gears in the automatic?
Best way I’ve found to control wheel speed is the throttle input between my ears.

i think you will have to control the gas pedal for sure. one thing i have noticed is the LS is just smooth so doing what you need wont be a problem, it doent stutter, hesitate or anything. so you dont have to wind it up or feel like you have to in a 4 cyl for instance.

my gearing with an auto would not have any issues with what you are asking. 5.13 axle to th350 to magnum underdrive and 205. in low low it just flat out idles. it would handle sand super easy. scary how easy it just idles and crawls like a champ

totaly understand why people love thier 4 to one tcase and auto and LS.

 

[RunningProblem]

i think you will have to control the gas pedal for sure. one thing i have noticed is the LS is just smooth so doing what you need wont be a problem, it doent stutter, hesitate or anything. so you dont have to wind it up or feel like you have to in a 4 cyl for instance.

my gearing with an auto would not have any issues with what you are asking. 5.13 axle to th350 to magnum underdrive and 205. in low low it just flat out idles. it would handle sand super easy. scary how easy it just idles and crawls like a champ

totaly understand why people love thier 4 to one tcase and auto and LS.

This is why I don’t think the OP would have any problem in an automatic behind an LS engine. I just know MY 2006 truck with a different engine and transmission has the ability to manually select 6 gears in an automatic to a point. If his can do the same I don’t know why going to a manual would be better or worse. I’m also not some badass crawler who could benefit from a mi or change in crawl ratios. I’d benefit from more seat time and challenging off roading.

 

[KB6Chris]

Thanks for the insight on using the auto, that's likely what I'll go with now. If I have problems with it I will adjust with differen't T-case gearing or torque converter.

In other news, I've been starting to gather some more parts and ideas for this winter. Picked up a 2012 Dana 60 from a buddy just up the road to upgrade the Dana 50. Wanting to do away with the lincoln locker and also don't want to spend a bunch of money on a Dana 50 so might as well upgrade right

This brings me to my next step which has taken hold...I'm going to ditch the leaf springs. The rough ride at speed over sand bars and creek beds with only 150hp is going to be much worse when I have much more hp to go even faster.

So we are going with links and coil-overs, also going to do hydro-assist, cage, seats, rear stretch, tank relocation, and, and, and, etc.

I've decided I have way more fun wheeling my Jeep than I do my Talon. Plus my buddies have sold their sxs so why keep it. So once it's sold basically all the $$$ is going to get rolled into the Jeep.

Rough plan right now:

Pull the body, drivetrain, axles etc, bring it down to frame.
Locate and build mounts for engine/trans
Locate and build mounts for links (3 link, 4 link, radius arms? Undecided)
Design and build cage tying front coil mounts, and rear mounts into cage.

Haven't decided between building it so the body drops down over the cage from the top so as to be completely removable. Maybe more like a skin purely for aesthetic or being more conservative and keeping it more "jeepish"

I guess I havent decided on how far to make it more juggy or less juggy.

I'm feeling pretty ambitious right now and this thing serves no purpose other than a toy that I drive on the road to and from trails and maybe to a buddies house once and awhile. We don't have inspections so as long as I have a plate, lights and nothing too crazy I shouldn't run into any trouble with the law around here. I live in rural area.

I guess my main question is does anyone regret taking their rig past the modified street vehicle level to the point of being a buggy than can be driven on the street.

 

[chaplinfj60]

it does snow ball real quick once one upgrade happens

 

[1Sinner]

it does snow ball real quick once one upgrade happens

Agreed. Turns into a straight up avalanche if you're not careful.

 

[chaplinfj60]

 

[Levigarrett76]

Thanks for the insight on using the auto, that's likely what I'll go with now. If I have problems with it I will adjust with differen't T-case gearing or torque converter.

In other news, I've been starting to gather some more parts and ideas for this winter. Picked up a 2012 Dana 60 from a buddy just up the road to upgrade the Dana 50. Wanting to do away with the lincoln locker and also don't want to spend a bunch of money on a Dana 50 so might as well upgrade right

This brings me to my next step which has taken hold...I'm going to ditch the leaf springs. The rough ride at speed over sand bars and creek beds with only 150hp is going to be much worse when I have much more hp to go even faster.

So we are going with links and coil-overs, also going to do hydro-assist, cage, seats, rear stretch, tank relocation, and, and, and, etc.

I've decided I have way more fun wheeling my Jeep than I do my Talon. Plus my buddies have sold their sxs so why keep it. So once it's sold basically all the $$$ is going to get rolled into the Jeep.

Rough plan right now:

Pull the body, drivetrain, axles etc, bring it down to frame.
Locate and build mounts for engine/trans
Locate and build mounts for links (3 link, 4 link, radius arms? Undecided)
Design and build cage tying front coil mounts, and rear mounts into cage.

Haven't decided between building it so the body drops down over the cage from the top so as to be completely removable. Maybe more like a skin purely for aesthetic or being more conservative and keeping it more "jeepish"

I guess I havent decided on how far to make it more juggy or less juggy.

I'm feeling pretty ambitious right now and this thing serves no purpose other than a toy that I drive on the road to and from trails and maybe to a buddies house once and awhile. We don't have inspections so as long as I have a plate, lights and nothing too crazy I shouldn't run into any trouble with the law around here. I live in rural area.

I guess my main question is does anyone regret taking their rig past the modified street vehicle level to the point of being a buggy than can be driven on the street.

I did the first time around.

I've got one now that is kind of happy medium YJ with 5.7 vortec

 

[Skinny]

I would say with the questions you are asking that a Holley is not a good choice for you. Get a stand alone harness from one of many suppliers. Use the factory ECM and tune. You'll need to get a tune from the harness supplier to make it work in your application without any check engine lights.

GM spent a lot more money then Holley getting everything right. It takes a lot of knowledge to say I want to program it myself.

If your truck is drive by wire then you also can not only run cruise control easily but manually shift it as well without touching the shifter assembly but using buttons.

One big thing for me on a street driven truck is the ECM is factory which means carrying a spare with your tune on it is cheap. If you get a Holley it is not.

There is no shortage of gauges sets that use the OBDII port from a simple scan gauge to a full digital dash. There is no advantage to the Holley there.

 

[gt1guy]

it does snow ball real quick once one upgrade happens

Agreed. Turns into a straight up avalanche if you're not careful.

Ya, he's fucked for the next few years.

 

[Rockwood]

Dollars aside, what advantage does the factory ECM/harness have over the Holley?

It’s waterproof. Holley is most certainly not. Ask my buddy.

 

[KB6Chris]

Ya, he's fucked for the next few years.

Sounds like a good time

It’s waterproof. Holley is most certainly not. Ask my buddy.

I have plans to put the ecu in a well protected location above the water line. Old ecu is gone now anyways. I'll do more research and I might change my mind and try and use a gm setup instead. I was sold on the holley but sounds like it may not be all i thought it was

 

[Skinny]

Computers are a dime a dozen. Literally made by the hundreds of thousands. So you aren't in a bad spot. That's also another reason to go with OEM stuff for what you are doing.

 

[gt1guy]

Since you have the whole truck you're using the engine from, I'd grab the computer/harness and use that. Not sure if '05 had a BCM, if it does, grab that too.

You already have everything to make that drivetrain run perfect. Trim the fat from the harness.......you're done. For that engine, you're not going to gain anything running the Holley system on it.

 

[Rockwood]

Sounds like a good time

I have plans to put the ecu in a well protected location above the water line. Old ecu is gone now anyways. I'll do more research and I might change my mind and try and use a gm setup instead. I was sold on the holley but sounds like it may not be all i thought it was

Word. Make sure it’s absolutely water tight, including the bulkhead/grommet. None of that ECU, nor the harness connectors on the ECU are even remotely water resistant. Buddy overheated and the reservoir overflowed onto the not waterproof tinwork (in a buggy) where it was housed, and dripped onto the harness. This shut the motor down (which was lucky I guess, saved the motor), dead as a door nail. Had to remove it, shake out what we could, then wait hours before it dried out and started again. Luckily it didn’t just shit the bed.

 

[Bebop]

It’s waterproof. Holley is most certainly not. Ask my buddy.

Depends what Holley product you're talking about. The HP and Dominator (not the ligh version) are waterproof and potted. The Terminator (based on the HP) is. The Terminator X and XMax aren't.

 

[Rockwood]

Depends what Holley product you're talking about. The HP and Dominator (not the ligh version) are waterproof and potted. The Terminator (based on the HP) is. The Terminator X and XMax aren't.

True, but he said Terminator in post #1, so that's what we're talking about.

Those options with transmission control are well over $3k for engine management on a basically stock LQ4. Mild overkill, and unless it's tuned really well, the stock ECU will likely drive a lot smoother.

 

[Bebop]

True, but he said Terminator in post #1, so that's what we're talking about.

The Terminator and Terminator X are 2 different Holley products. And the Terminator is waterproof. So if you want to semantics me, please be right.

Those options with transmission control are well over $3k for engine management on a basically stock LQ4. Mild overkill, and unless it's tuned really well, the stock ECU will likely drive a lot smoother.

I agree.
I wasn't responding about the value per $ of the Holley offering, just explaining that your statement about the Holley products not being waterproof was wrong.