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What water cooled torch setup for syncrowave 180SD?

TTMotorsports

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Lucerne Valley, CA
Ok so I currently have a miller syncrowave 180sd. Works great but air cooled torch my hand isn't happy and I notice some inconsistency in my welds. Research on this shows that the temp the gas comes out of torch plays into this. So I'm wanting to upgrade my torch and step up to water cooled setup especially since I have a big aluminum job that will be running my machine at max amperage. Gonna go with the CK flex loc torch so I can rub my furixk cups. So what water cooler setup do people run and have good luck with?
 
TTMotorsports said:
Ok so I currently have a miller syncrowave 180sd. Works great but air cooled torch my hand isn't happy and I notice some inconsistency in my welds. Research on this shows that the temp the gas comes out of torch plays into this. So I'm wanting to upgrade my torch and step up to water cooled setup especially since I have a big aluminum job that will be running my machine at max amperage. Gonna go with the CK flex loc torch so I can rub my furixk cups. So what water cooler setup do people run and have good luck with?
Click to expand...
Unless you have a good local place, i'd just call Weld USA and explain what you want. They will make you a plug and play setup with an HTP cooler and whatever ck torch you want.

usaweld.com

Arctic Chill 5460 Water-Cooler

The HTP America® Arctic Chill 5460 Water-Cooler for TIG Welding features a flat folding handle for easy portability—we've seen many coolers without handles, and it's a struggle to get the cooler out from underneath your welder or in and out of your cart. The convenience, screw cap fill and...
usaweld.com
 
they all work. even a trickle from the shop sink. only run into problems when the flow stops.

but also i'm no fan of the flex loc. they are alright but dont get the same cooling to the head, and can make some joints awkward. (the watercooling doesn't extend into the head.)
just get a flex head and a back up for when it breaks.
i gave away my flex loc after trying to convince myself it was great. its not.


i am 100% with you on using c/k heads and consumables. fuck a regular collet, wedge locks ftmfw
also i dont have much bench work. i'm on my head upside down and backwards half the time, allot of tig with a mirror invloved. i only use a foot pedal at the bench other than that every torch is on a ck slide control.


did i mention that i only use ck for all my tig work? i hate garbage and pay for the good stuff.
the only non ck stuff i use for tig is tungsten, all i use is 2% lanth and i bought a pile of it a while back.



if your going to be taxing that 180 look into the HTP tigs. you will be happy with one. i like their 221 better than my dynasty. so much so got the 300a model too.
 
#20 torch, fuel pump in a bucket of green antifreeze
it doesn't really get hot but I'm not running all day

if you've got water in the area, run a 1/4" ice-maker line over to the welder, let it dribble only as fast as needed to keep the drain line not too steamy
 
TTMotorsports said:
Do you ever pulse the weld with the slide control? I pulse fairly fast when doing the cover pass with .045 rod
Click to expand...

i dont. i will set a pulse of half a second or so if i want to set a cadence and hold a consistent pattern.

i work my filler and speed more than i like to vary the heat input. but if needed i will hook up a foot pedal. super then stainless railing and countertops are when i use a foot pedal most often, just so i can keep the torch placed right without the small movement that happens when adj the slide.
if i needed the foot pedal anymore than i do i would be getting a wireless one.
 
Any pump works

I use nice industrial grade gear pump and coolant from lws. Building one yourself is super easy.

I'd use a 3 series 18 flex head. Not a fan of the flex loc either like tracyb said they get way too hot. I only use 2% lanthanated too but I stick to the CK stuff.

What kind of big aluminum job are you doing with a little machine like that?

20230713_111306.jpg
 
Looking at the flex loc torches, I have to wonder why they even bother cooling them? It doesn't seem like it would do much of anything just by design.

Following along because I need a new torch for my Syncrowave 250DX.
 
PAToyota said:
Looking at the flex loc torches, I have to wonder why they even bother cooling them? It doesn't seem like it would do much of anything just by design.

Following along because I need a new torch for my Syncrowave 250DX.
Click to expand...

they still provide allot of cooling over an air cooled torch. the brass or watever they are made out of transfers heat really well. but still not as well as a flex head.
i've only used an air cooled torch once or twice in the last year, if weldign aluminum i always immediately regret not bringing the water cooler. lat time was a 6" crack repair-stopped twice to let the torch cool.

i'm sure they are great for many people but a flex head does everything the flex loc can do plus a little more, as it has enough movement to help with hand postioning too. the reason i tried out the flex loc is b/c it can't fail like a flex head... and they always seem to fail when out of the shop. i finally started to carry a small tig kit in the truck with an extra head and dont worry about it anymore.
 
Ive got the usa weld cooler. Been trouble free, im happy with it.

Flex head is my prefered torch.
 
I only weld a couple times per month. Mostly Aluminum. After botching several items, I "afforded" a Dynasty. My garage space is precious so placed it next to the garage door and bought the longest hosed, water cooled torches I could. I quickly found out that the softest hoses were the best because "you are never in position" and relaxing is important.

On the cooling side, I use the garden hose and a 50ft 1/4" hose to water the garden. After forgetting to turn on the water, and having to keep a spare set-up in stock, I added a plastic wheel that actually shows when the water is moving. I should also say that we have great water with minimal minerals. A few miles away they are on well water and would definitely have to have a "pesky cooler."

Different: I couldn't live with the MIG welder unless it was on a cart. And newer models with inverter tech let you be a better, more confident welder...Similar idea to the Dynasty, And don't think you have to buy big corporate. Over 50 years I am on my third Blue MIG. Only upgrading for quality of weld...the first time. Until lately, I have been blue, but when the going got tough on MIG, I borrowed a buddies HTP. Night and day difference for me. For Tig, I appreciate the podcasts showing what other equipment can do. A Dynasty would be out of my interest range today. When I bought, it was, what others are today. Shop for good stuff. Get informed (This thread) Be a good buyer.

Why do they put On/Off switches on the back?
 
Hook it up to your garden hose bib and let the return flow into a planter. (I haven't tried this, but the internets says it works fine, and I do plan on doing it when I have a project that actually requires a water cooled torch.)

Edit: but in reality, with my Syncrowave 200, I think I'll be bouncing off the duty cycle before the torch is nuking.
 
300sniper said:
Hook it up to your garden hose bib and let the return flow into a planter. (I haven't tried this, but the internets says it works fine, and I do plan on doing it when I have a project that actually requires a water cooled torch.)

Edit: but in reality, with my Syncrowave 200, I think I'll be bouncing off the duty cycle before the torch is nuking.
Click to expand...
it's why most old welders have a water solenoid alongside the gas solenoid
 
[486] said:
it's why most old welders have a water solenoid alongside the gas solenoid
Click to expand...
Was a good idea, then I realized that the whole system before the welder has to take pressure.
I didn't like the weight of the air cooled torch. The wire is where the weight and flexibility is...or not..

I aw-shit weld from heads and blocks to radiators so you may need one that works the extremes. Dynasty250DX
My weld times are short so have never bumped up to a stoppage or drop in amps. I DO preheat most big stuff. In the aw-shit world I think you have to be a better metallurgist to know or study what you are dealing with than a pretty welder. Would love to be both...but. Yeh, a grinder and know my limits...No Stainless. .
Holy Smokes, I just saw a water cooled torch at Grainger for $530. Used to be less than $200 with replaceable hoses.(You usually just melt the one with the wire and the type torch to buy) That one hose with wire is much less expensive...And back in business in about 15 minutes.

Edit: The older and cheaper water cooled torches just have plastic hoses. When the wire gets hot enough to melt thru the outer hose, it usually melts the adjacent hose also...so you wind up replacing the whole set-up. (I run cable covers for easier coiling. ) Lately, the hoses have been covered in cloth and you just take out the one waterhose with the wire. If you smell humidity ... stop. The braid covered hoses seem softer also. (WeldCraft) I don't know all brands but those are the questions to consider.
 
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I run one of these

it doesn't matter how you really cool it, I also know people that run the garden hose and back outside

I have a repeating job that requires two Bernard coolers dumping into in a 30 gallon tub and pulling out of the tub to keep everything happy. The whole thing gets warm, but the lines are happy and pliable

and for 25+ years I have only ran water, no additives
 
Isdtbower said:
Was a good idea, then I realized that the whole system before the welder has to take pressure.
I didn't like the weight of the air cooled torch. The wire is where the weight and flexibility is...or not..

I aw-shit weld from heads and blocks to radiators so you may need one that works the extremes. Dynasty250DX
My weld times are short so have never bumped up to a stoppage or drop in amps. I DO preheat most big stuff. In the aw-shit world I think you have to be a better metallurgist to know or study what you are dealing with than a pretty welder. Would love to be both...but. Yeh, a grinder and know my limits...No Stainless. .
Holy Smokes, I just saw a water cooled torch at Grainger for $530. Used to be less than $200 with replaceable hoses.(You usually just melt the one with the wire and the type torch to buy) That one hose with wire is much less expensive...And back in business in about 15 minutes.

Edit: The older and cheaper water cooled torches just have plastic hoses. When the wire gets hot enough to melt thru the outer hose, it usually melts the adjacent hose also...so you wind up replacing the whole set-up. (I run cable covers for easier coiling. ) Lately, the hoses have been covered in cloth and you just take out the one waterhose with the wire. If you smell humidity ... stop. The braid covered hoses seem softer also. (WeldCraft) I don't know all brands but those are the questions to consider.
Click to expand...

c/k are the best for hoses and tig heads, also i really lick their wedge lock collets.

do you often burn up the hoses? weld and fab is all i do coming up on 10yrs now and i have roached exactly 2 water cooled hoses. both times the water cooled came unplugged. bone head mistake. never a failure or over heating otherwise.
 
SomeGuyFromOlympia said:
1689657399726.jpeg


I run one of these

it doesn't matter how you really cool it, I also know people that run the garden hose and back outside

I have a repeating job that requires two Bernard coolers dumping into in a 30 gallon tub and pulling out of the tub to keep everything happy. The whole thing gets warm, but the lines are happy and pliable

and for 25+ years I have only ran water, no additives
Click to expand...

what???
you really got 2 coolers hooked up and a 30gal sump and haven't thought maybe something aint right here? :shaking:
there should never be a reason to need to run 30 gallon water. or more than one proper cooler like that bernard. your cobbled together cooling is a direct result of running plain water. you've got corrosion, algae and clogging. 2 pumps and a tub of water is a big bandaid for a small problem.


you really need to use an additive or antifreeze if you want the best performance. or you will be getting corrosion inside the torch. the water jacket in the torch is tight... that corrosion will slow the water flow and lessen its ability for heat transfer. on top of the corrosion your water is also growing algae whether you can see it or not and that too is likely clogging your torch and lines. also your radiator is full of crap now




i would get new hoses and torch, take the top of your cooler and clean the pan really well and replace the strainer/ filter at the pump. remove and clean the radiator. after cleaning out the water cooler, with out the torch hooked up, i'd run a radiator flush/ cleaner through it. refill with (distilled preferably, i use the water that my dehumidifier collects) and put whatever the cheapest anti freeze you can find in it. and then you wont have to fuck with it for years.
worst case your pump needs rebuilt. iirc you should be seeing 40-60psi :beer:


with one properly working bernard hooked to the smallest c/k flex head, smaller hoses and all. 300amps at duty cyle.... i have ran for hours and never thought the torch was getting too hot.
 
tracyb said:
with one properly working bernard hooked to the smallest c/k flex head, smaller hoses and all. 300amps at duty cyle.... i have ran for hours and never thought the torch was getting too hot.
Click to expand...
same experience here with my Miller cooler.
 
i got a water cooled torch, a old tranny cooler and a chap water pump (120v) welded up a small tank made a few hoses to connect stuff and bang.... water cooled tig on the cheap. ran it for 10 years no problem.
 
tracyb said:
what???
you really got 2 coolers hooked up and a 30gal sump and haven't thought maybe something aint right here? :shaking:
there should never be a reason to need to run 30 gallon water. or more than one proper cooler like that bernard. your cobbled together cooling is a direct result of running plain water. you've got corrosion, algae and clogging. 2 pumps and a tub of water is a big bandaid for a small problem.


you really need to use an additive or antifreeze if you want the best performance. or you will be getting corrosion inside the torch. the water jacket in the torch is tight... that corrosion will slow the water flow and lessen its ability for heat transfer. on top of the corrosion your water is also growing algae whether you can see it or not and that too is likely clogging your torch and lines. also your radiator is full of crap now




i would get new hoses and torch, take the top of your cooler and clean the pan really well and replace the strainer/ filter at the pump. remove and clean the radiator. after cleaning out the water cooler, with out the torch hooked up, i'd run a radiator flush/ cleaner through it. refill with (distilled preferably, i use the water that my dehumidifier collects) and put whatever the cheapest anti freeze you can find in it. and then you wont have to fuck with it for years.
worst case your pump needs rebuilt. iirc you should be seeing 40-60psi :beer:


with one properly working bernard hooked to the smallest c/k flex head, smaller hoses and all. 300amps at duty cyle.... i have ran for hours and never thought the torch was getting too hot.
Click to expand...
Or it could be the 1" plate that is getting welded to the 3/4 plate with 1/2 plate everywhere else
customer wanted it TIG, and likes the way that I hand it back to him because there is zero touch up in his end

this is how I cheat the duty cycles :grinpimp:
 
SomeGuyFromOlympia said:
Or it could be the 1" plate that is getting welded to the 3/4 plate with 1/2 plate everywhere else
customer wanted it TIG, and likes the way that I hand it back to him because there is zero touch up in his end

this is how I cheat the duty cycles :grinpimp:
Click to expand...
You can do that with a normal cooler.
 
Bebop said:
You can do that with a normal cooler.
Click to expand...
oh look at you knowing things
you don't know the project, or you know that too??

when I got done with that specific project , the whole kettle would be a steaming brew, everything was working as advertised, I have 30 years in the trade, I believe that I have a firms grasp on my equipment and limitations

The point of my post was that cooling can be done with the basics and I provided another example, I wasn't trying to start a who knows more debate :grinpimp:
 
SomeGuyFromOlympia said:
Or it could be the 1" plate that is getting welded to the 3/4 plate with 1/2 plate everywhere else
customer wanted it TIG, and likes the way that I hand it back to him because there is zero touch up in his end

this is how I cheat the duty cycles :grinpimp:
Click to expand...
Maybe it's just corrosion clogging the coolant passages in the water jackets of your torch
 
most of us here see an obvious problem and want to help. and you go straight to condecending and the 'i've done it wrong for so long its right argument' lighten up.


doesn't matter if you've been doing it for for 1yr or 50yrs. doing it wrong or the hard way doesn't become right over time.

you have an obvious problem. but nobody can help an old dog thats blinded by years of 'experience'


the fact is a properly working system wont benefit from having 2 water cooler pumps. if one hits proper pressure, then adding another one wont increase the flow. volume is limited by size of the hose and supply pressure. thats like thinking the two air compressors at 100psi = 200psi. so the only possible benefit of the second cooler would be for the extra radiator space. but thats not goign to make much of a difference it your running a 30gal tank.

so thats a fact, of course there are the other issues i brought up. but algae and corrosion dont affect your setup.:confused:

i'll ask again hows your strainer/filter look?
how many amps are you running?

trying to be helpful:beer:



hey WESTOF7 you've got a 400amp dynasty right? how many coolers you got to run on that thing?
 
tracyb said:
most of us here see an obvious problem and want to help. and you go straight to condecending and the 'i've done it wrong for so long its right argument' lighten up.


doesn't matter if you've been doing it for for 1yr or 50yrs. doing it wrong or the hard way doesn't become right over time.

you have an obvious problem. but nobody can help an old dog thats blinded by years of 'experience'


the fact is a properly working system wont benefit from having 2 water cooler pumps. if one hits proper pressure, then adding another one wont increase the flow. volume is limited by size of the hose and supply pressure. thats like thinking the two air compressors at 100psi = 200psi. so the only possible benefit of the second cooler would be for the extra radiator space. but thats not goign to make much of a difference it your running a 30gal tank.

so thats a fact, of course there are the other issues i brought up. but algae and corrosion dont affect your setup.:confused:

i'll ask again hows your strainer/filter look?
how many amps are you running?

trying to be helpful:beer:



hey WESTOF7 you've got a 400amp dynasty right? how many coolers you got to run on that thing?
Click to expand...
don't tell me to lighten up mutherfucker:grinpimp:

you are missing my point, but thanks for the effort.
 
SomeGuyFromOlympia said:
don't tell me to lighten up mutherfucker:grinpimp:

you are missing my point, but thanks for the effort.
Click to expand...

the only point i'm picking up is that you can do it completely wrong and its still gonna work okay-ish. but really you haven't added anything of value to the conversation.


*also; i do over react when people post bad advice, especially on irate. i went to school for engineering, didn't start welding until i finished school. i've learned the foundation of what i do know now from forums. the old place especially. i hate when old crusty dudes are misleading or obtuse when someone wants genuine advice.
the knowledge base of welding fab/fiting is garbage because the industry has too many crusty grumps that cant be bothered to be of any real help. it makes it easy for a guy like me to move into and only need to work 8mo a year and still make a killing. but thats very short sighted. so, i do what i can to help, and call out bs.

so lighten up maggot, and be helpful. or fuck off:flipoff2:
 
tracyb said:
the only point i'm picking up is that you can do it completely wrong and its still gonna work okay-ish. but really you haven't added anything of value to the conversation.


*also; i do over react when people post bad advice, especially on irate. i went to school for engineering, didn't start welding until i finished school. i've learned the foundation of what i do know now from forums. the old place especially. i hate when old crusty dudes are misleading or obtuse when someone wants genuine advice.
the knowledge base of welding fab/fiting is garbage because the industry has too many crusty grumps that cant be bothered to be of any real help. it makes it easy for a guy like me to move into and only need to work 8mo a year and still make a killing. but thats very short sighted. so, i do what i can to help, and call out bs.

so lighten up maggot, and be helpful. or fuck off:flipoff2:
Click to expand...
you know what engineers and vegetarians have in common?
they always think anyone cares that they are one or the other

and how exactly how your torch cools makes anything completely wrong?
and where in the thread did I ask for advise on torch cooling?
go ahead I will wait
there are a few posts that you missed my whole point of my post, and I will say it again in this one
My point was there are several ways to cool your torch, fancy coolers all the way to a plain ol garden hose ran out the door,

cliffs
You: didn't go to school for welding, learned from internet friends
Me: certified in the trade since 94

but go ahead and call the bs
 
Cooler is pretty generic, pump, fan cooler.
My Syncrowave has built in cooler so I've never fucked with improving, purchasing etc.

But my torch sux for 90% of the shit I do..it's huge 300A a 17 I think?
And it's a pain in the ass for normal tig welding.

Edit: nope it's a WP-18 350a DC 250a AC

Big aluminum jobs it kicks ass, no melting fucking up etc. just weld. Max amps on AC is a bitch for the machine and power supply. That 250amp machine wide open pulls 98 amps on 240v. I don't have a plug in my shop capable of that.

I want to get the little CK air cooled torch #9 maybe that every hot rod welder use and retire thos water cooled rig for the big jobs.
 
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