Water in the tires?

[Socsmm6]

Has any one run water, antifreeze, etc in the front tires for weight?
When I get my x3 on a steep incline the front end unloads and takes all the weight off the front tires. Tried stiffening up the rear shocks to take a little squat out of it when on a climb. Hasnt seemed to help.
Not sure how much weight would be needed so the front tires would help pull in up the ledge. Dont want so much that I tear up the steering. Running 4” 30% portals on 32” roxxzillas so that takes pressure off the axles.
Good or bad idea?

 

[RMO]

Has any one run water, antifreeze, etc in the front tires for weight?
When I get my x3 on a steep incline the front end unloads and takes all the weight off the front tires. Tried stiffening up the rear shocks to take a little squat out of it when on a climb. Hasnt seemed to help.
Not sure how much weight would be needed so the front tires would help pull in up the ledge. Dont want so much that I tear up the steering. Running 4” 30% portals on 32” roxxzillas so that takes pressure off the axles.
Good or bad idea?

Filling / adding weight the tires would have a negative effect on braking
Would suggest hanging barbell weights off of the front to get an idea of how much weight you need, then figure out a good place to tuck the weights in the front of the chassis.

 

[AKnate]

Ive run loaded tires in a 648 G3. Can't say it made much difference though.
It has about 600 gallons, so only ~4800lbs

Chains make a huge difference, though limited to maybe 30mph tops.

 

[IH Man]

I run loaded tires on a lot of equipment. Never in a "vehicle" though.

 

[Socsmm6]

I dot do any high speed riding. Pretty much just hills, ledges and rock gardens.
Im thinking the weight would need to be at the wheels. Gonna be a trial and error deal i guess. Running boxed a arms and upgraded the steering. Hoping the axles are still the weak point.

 

[Socsmm6]

I run loaded tires on a lot of equipment. Never in a "vehicle" though.

I have seen it make a difference in tractors before. Talked to people that added water to full size rock climbers and it helped them. I know the built full size rigs can take more weight.

 

[IH Man]

I dot do any high speed riding. Pretty much just hills, ledges and rock gardens.
Im thinking the weight would need to be at the wheels. Gonna be a trial and error deal i guess. Running boxed a arms and upgraded the steering. Hoping the axles are still the weak point.

Here's the thing to be sure you know:

Liquid isn't compressible. You can only fill to about 75%, and you're going to lose all but a little air. So, the tires will flex, but won't have much shock load. If you "bounce" the tires, they will be pretty solid. Also, if you get a flat or puncture, there goes your fluid. If the tires have to come off, you won't be able to pick them up.

Unless you live in an area where freezing isn't a concern, don't use water.

 

[RPS1030]

Water in solid axle buggies is rough on standard and subpar components.

I think top of the wheel in a 42 is something around 200 lbs extra each. Not sure how much weight you’d get out of a 32. Or what is the sprung vs unsprung weight difference.

Heck, my steering doesn’t even like standard 35s nor do I have perfect confidence in even the RCVs.

 

[bad zuki]

We run beet juice (tractor stuff) or RV antifreeze in our crawlers, since we go into a lot of streams and creeks. With the front tires, going from no water to 2/3rds water is the equivalent of going from dot to stickies, IMHO. It's defiantly harder on KP60 stuff and will blow apart a chromoly when if you do a few wide open bounces. You will notice it sloshing around while driving over 20 MPH.

I would try 25% fill in the UTV, but its going to be hell on your suspension.

 

[wvracer821]

it will probably be the quickest way to delete a CV. Please report back once you get some testing data

 

[IH Man]

it will probably be the quickest way to delete a CV. Please report back once you get some testing data

Water isn't concrete. It's a liquid. Think about it. Some of it will rotate with the tire, but not all of it. Little bit of additional rolling resistance, understanding that we aren't talking high speed or fast acceleration. It won't add a terrible amount of additional strain on the CV's in this case.

 

[Wades_76_cj7]

Water isn't concrete. It's a liquid. Think about it. Some of it will rotate with the tire, but not all of it. Little bit of additional rolling resistance, understanding that we aren't talking high speed or fast acceleration. It won't add a terrible amount of additional strain on the CV's in this case.

I think you are out of your element old timer.. I think there are going to be front axles deleted left and right.


Op you can try it but I personally think it's going to over strain the lightweight SXS drivetrain. even with only running 32" tires it's going to strain them

 

['84 Bronco II]

Water isn't concrete. It's a liquid. Think about it. Some of it will rotate with the tire, but not all of it. Little bit of additional rolling resistance, understanding that we aren't talking high speed or fast acceleration. It won't add a terrible amount of additional strain on the CV's in this case.

It's the traction and additional unsprung weight that is the issue, not the inertia. Running water/ballast in tires has been done for decades in crawlers to lower the center of gravity and improve weight distribution. It is hard on parts and terrible for suspension performance at speed.

Socsmm6 try it and report back, but I think a side by side is about the worst possible application for filling your tires with ballast. The ride quality will go to shit, your steering will require a lot more effort, and you'll probably break stuff. Works great in dedicated solid axle crawlers though. That said, I think the root of your problem is the portals raising your center of gravity and causing a lot more rear weight transfer on inclines.

 

[IH Man]

I think you are out of your element old timer.. I think there are going to be front axles deleted left and right.

I think you need to think a little harder, and talk less. Maybe use your brain. You did finish at least high school right?

 

[IH Man]

It's the traction and additional unsprung weight that is the issue, not the inertia.

Weight is weight. Doesn’t matter where it is placed.

The same amount of weight placed directly above the tire would increase traction exactly as much. Being on the suspension is only relevant to ride quality and center of gravity/ mass. It still requires the same power to move the total mass of the machine. Traction is relative to weight, footprint of the tires, and material you are driving on. (Pavement, dirt, mud, ect.)

 

[IH Man]

It is hard on parts and terrible for suspension performance at speed.

It wouldn’t affect suspension.

Ride quality yes because the tires are now filled with a non compressible material. But there is no additional weight on the suspension.

 

[RustyC]

Yes ballast helps traction and stability. As stated is is very hard on parts.
Yes the weight in the tires will affect the suspension.
The idea of suspension is for the chassis to stay still while the tires move. With ballast in the tires they resist moving and the suspension can't rebound fast enough because the unsprung weight is so much higher.
Honestly the idea works great in a SLOW speed crawler or cone dodger. Imagine only needing 1st / rev gear. Completely opposite of what the sxs was designed to do.

 

[Wades_76_cj7]

I think you need to think a little harder, and talk less. Maybe use your brain. You did finish at least high school right?

I think you don't know shit about fuck when it comes to anything but your little bubble.

Newsflash, there are hundreds if not thousands of people on this board that know more than you do about things. I actually have a SXS, crazy I know, and I know how shit works. Go sit over there and drink your Ensure and STFU.

 

['84 Bronco II]

Weight is weight. Doesn’t matter where it is placed.

The same amount of weight placed directly above the tire would increase traction exactly as much. Being on the suspension is only relevant to ride quality and center of gravity/ mass. It still requires the same power to move the total mass of the machine. Traction is relative to weight, footprint of the tires, and material you are driving on. (Pavement, dirt, mud, ect.)

It wouldn’t affect suspension.

Ride quality yes because the tires are now filled with a non compressible material. But there is no additional weight on the suspension.

You are an idiot

You should make an introduction thread in Chit Chat and post up the hairiest offroading you've ever done. I am sure everyone will be very impressed and stop calling you out in every thread you post in.

 

[Socsmm6]

It's the traction and additional unsprung weight that is the issue, not the inertia. Running water/ballast in tires has been done for decades in crawlers to lower the center of gravity and improve weight distribution. It is hard on parts and terrible for suspension performance at speed.

Socsmm6 try it and report back, but I think a side by side is about the worst possible application for filling your tires with ballast. The ride quality will go to shit, your steering will require a lot more effort, and you'll probably break stuff. Works great in dedicated solid axle crawlers though. That said, I think the root of your problem is the portals raising your center of gravity and causing a lot more rear weight transfer on inclines.

The portals do have the cog up high. I have adjusted the suspension down but cant go any lower or it wont fit on my trailer. Im rubbing the side now. The 30% lower gearing is really nice. I have only broke 1 axle since i put the portals on but that was a result of trashing the factory trailing arm.
I stay in low when crawling obstacles. Dont care for the bouncer method. Lol

 

['84 Bronco II]

The portals do have the cog up high. I have adjusted the suspension down but cant go any lower or it wont fit on my trailer. Im rubbing the side now. The 30% lower gearing is really nice. I have only broke 1 axle since i put the portals on but that was a result of trashing the factory trailing arm.
I stay in low when crawling obstacles. Dont care for the bouncer method. Lol

Water is free, so fill them up and take it easy. If you decide it was a bad idea, dump them out and you are out nothing more than your time.

 

[IH Man]

I think you don't know shit about fuck when it comes to anything but your little bubble.

Newsflash, there are hundreds if not thousands of people on this board that know more than you do about things. I actually have a SXS, crazy I know, and I know how shit works. Go sit over there and drink your Ensure and STFU.

Loud. Obnoxious.

Nothing intelligent coming off your keyboard.

 

[IH Man]

You are an idiot

You should make an introduction thread in Chit Chat and post up the hairiest offroading you've ever done. I am sure everyone will be very impressed and stop calling you out in every thread you post in.

The funny thing about ignorance is, you don’t know what you don’t know.

So read some physics and maybe you won’t look so ignorant.

 

[Wades_76_cj7]

Loud. Obnoxious.

Nothing intelligent coming off your keyboard.

Bless your heart..

 

[IH Man]

Bless your heart..

Ok. Smart fuck.
Explain how fluid affects driveline in a slow speed application vs the same weight in iron, let’s say on the bumper just in front of the tire.

Think about it now.

 

[Wades_76_cj7]

Ok. Smart fuck.
Explain how fluid affects driveline in a slow speed application vs the same weight in iron, let’s say on the bumper just in front of the tire.

Think about it now.

see above.

 

[IH Man]

see above.

You just said that you "think" there will be "front axles deleted left and right".
That's not an explanation. No one has offered any kind of explanation as to how it would affect driveline. Other than to say "it bad".

And you have your picture as your avatar. You're older than me, or at least whiter than me, so

 

[RunningProblem]

I think you need to think a little harder, and talk less. Maybe use your brain. You did finish at least high school right?

Weight is weight. Doesn’t matter where it is placed.

The same amount of weight placed directly above the tire would increase traction exactly as much. Being on the suspension is only relevant to ride quality and center of gravity/ mass. It still requires the same power to move the total mass of the machine. Traction is relative to weight, footprint of the tires, and material you are driving on. (Pavement, dirt, mud, ect.)

Ok. Smart fuck.
Explain how fluid affects driveline in a slow speed application vs the same weight in iron, let’s say on the bumper just in front of the tire.

Think about it now.

If "weight is weight" and it "doesn't matter where it is placed" then 400 lbs of iron hanging off the rear bumper, 400 lbs on the roof of the SxS, and 100 lbs in each of the 4 tires is the same. Moving the weight from the tires to the top of the suspension directly impacts balance.

The weight will affect balance. 400 lbs hanging off the rear bumper is going to hurt traction on the front end. Also....water moves whereas iron isn't installed to move around. Typically it is welded, or mounted to prevent movement.

The funny thing about ignorance is, you don’t know what you don’t know.

So read some physics and maybe you won’t look so ignorant.

 

[IH Man]

If "weight is weight" and it "doesn't matter where it is placed" then 400 lbs of iron hanging off the rear bumper, 400 lbs on the roof of the SxS, and 100 lbs in each of the 4 tires is the same. Moving the weight from the tires to the top of the suspension directly impacts balance.

The weight will affect balance. 400 lbs hanging off the rear bumper is going to hurt traction on the front end. Also....water moves whereas iron isn't installed to move around. Typically it is welded, or mounted to prevent movement.

In relation to the driveline. I stated that. You can read right?

Read the rest of my comment:

Being on the suspension is only relevant to ride quality and center of gravity/ mass.

No fucking shit it affects balance.



The little bit of water "sloshing" in the tires isn't going to affect anything. It can't move enough to do anything more than rock the vehicle just a little bit. If I knew what size tires he had, I could tell you how many gallons. But these aren't tractor tires with 120 gallons in them. My guess given the vehicle, maybe 15 gallons in each, and it will have less to move around in than 1.5-2 gallon space. It won't move enough to make any difference.

 

[posford]