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V10 love?

i've ran the rpm calcs over and over. i keep leaning 5.13 .

i'm hesitant because i went from 373 to 456 gears in the 6.2/ 6speed, and it didn't make me any less annoyed with the shifting. it didn't really need a regear but i thought it would help.

the 5.4 run the edge of redline all the time, i think it needs a regear. i'm just hesitant about not liking the results.

taking notes is at the top of the list for regear. the 5r110 really has 6 speeds and all are used in tow/hual mode makeing for a 4/5 gear highway speed sweet spot, 4/5 are really close ratio. i'm thinking i want that 5.4 at peak power at 65-70mph in the 4/5.... its a truck that see's 80mph, but almost never goes over that. i just hope i dont hate the constant gear changes in the low end. but i dont think it makes enough power... well see.
 
I actually upgraded from the other 8.1, to a cclb 8.1. I’ve been pretty happy with it. I wish I could manually turn 5th off on the Allison though. Sometimes the shifting is a bit annoying.
 

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tracyb said:
i've ran the rpm calcs over and over. i keep leaning 5.13 .

i'm hesitant because i went from 373 to 456 gears in the 6.2/ 6speed, and it didn't make me any less annoyed with the shifting. it didn't really need a regear but i thought it would help.

the 5.4 run the edge of redline all the time, i think it needs a regear. i'm just hesitant about not liking the results.

taking notes is at the top of the list for regear. the 5r110 really has 6 speeds and all are used in tow/hual mode makeing for a 4/5 gear highway speed sweet spot, 4/5 are really close ratio. i'm thinking i want that 5.4 at peak power at 65-70mph in the 4/5.... its a truck that see's 80mph, but almost never goes over that. i just hope i dont hate the constant gear changes in the low end. but i dont think it makes enough power... well see.
Click to expand...

What are you trying to gain with a regear? Are you basically not using OD right now?
 
YotaAtieToo said:
What are you trying to gain with a regear? Are you basically not using OD right now?
Click to expand...
it never touches OD in any situation. loaded or empty, except on decel. i really want to keep it from shifting into 2nd pulling a big hill. shifts after that are fine. the truck more or less always has a load on it and is running mostly in the 3000-4500rpm range. in places, like the high plains of Nevada it'll run 4k rpm or a little over for hours on end.

as i sit, in OD rpms @ 70mph
2240 w/ 456
2397 w/ 488
2520 w/ 513 (at 80mph 2880rpm)

i have the 5.4 not the v10 so i'm using all the power i've got. i need to sit and run the rpm numbers thru gears 4/5 at 55-65mph and thats when i'll settle on gear choice. that 4/5 split i really want to sweet spot for pulling hills, right now it 2/3 pulling hills and too big of a jump between 2 and 3. pulling from Nampa/ Boise area to st anthonys is where bugs me most. revs 2nd to the moon shift to third not enough power, and slows until drops back the 2nd at 5k rpm. when the power gear shift are between 4/5/6 everything is smooth.

on nampa to st anthonys pull the altitude gain really aint helping things either. and that brings in the thought to just leave the gears and do a low boost turbo.. decisions decisions. i like the gears because i dont want to mess with the motor, but maybe messing with the motor will be best of both worlds. power at altitude and power enough to avoid the annoying gear change. i wouldn't even think of turbo as i've never messed with one, but a buddy thats a big rig mechanic is going to be doing one to his truck so i'd have someone to copy and hold my hand.

i also really like being able to take the truck any shop when it needs something, and keeping motor stock would make that easier. or maybe not
 
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tracyb said:
it never touches OD in any situation. loaded or empty, except on decel. i really want to keep it from shifting into 2nd pulling a big hill. shifts after that are fine. the truck more or less always has a load on it and is running mostly in the 3000-4500rpm range. in places, like the high plains of Nevada it'll run 4k rpm or a little over for hours on end.

as i sit, in OD rpms @
2240 w/ 456
2397 w/ 488
2520 w/ 513 (at 80mph 2880rpm)
Click to expand...

Makes sense to me, I was just curious. Sounds like a good plan really.

tracyb said:
i have the 5.4 not the v10 so i'm using all the power i've got. i need to sit and run the rpm numbers thru gears 4/5 at 55-65mph and thats when i'll settle on gear choice. that 4/5 split i really want to sweet spot for pulling hills, right now it 2/3 pulling hills and too big of a jump between 2 and 3. pulling from Nampa/ Boise area to st anthonys is where bugs me most. revs 2nd to the moon shift to third not enough power, and slows until drops back the 2nd at 5k rpm. when the power gear shift are between 4/5/6 everything is smooth.

on nampa to st anthonys pull the altitude gain really aint helping things either. and that brings in the thought to just leave the gears and do a low boost turbo.. decisions decisions. i like the gears because i dont want to mess with the motor, but maybe messing with the motor will be best of both worlds. power at altitude and power enough to avoid the annoying gear change. i wouldn't even think of turbo as i've never messed with one, but a buddy thats a big rig mechanic is going to be doing one to his truck so i'd have someone to copy and hold my hand.
Click to expand...

There is no replacement for a turbo at altitude imo. When I was running an 18 6.2 ford at work, it did mostly OK with heavy loads until I got up in altitude. On the other hand, my wife ecoboost F150 doesn't care. Even though the 6.2 has 50hp and 50 tq on the 2.7, I think it would have a hard time keeping up in the mountains.

Adding a turbo is a lot of complexity though, which kinda goes away from the point of getting a gas 3/4 or 1t truck.

I wonder how dumb a rear mount self contained turbo would be for this? Basically the only big thing would be running the intake pipe to the engine bay. Worst case the turbo shits the bed, you just disconnect and keep driving?

Edit: Rear mounts are obviously horrible for lag. But for towing it really shouldn't be an issue, especially with only 5 to 7 lbs.
 
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YotaAtieToo said:
I wonder how dumb a rear mount self contained turbo would be for this? Basically the only big thing would be running the intake pipe to the engine bay. Worst case the turbo shits the bed, you just disconnect and keep driving?

Edit: Rear mounts are obviously horrible for lag. But for towing it really shouldn't be an issue, especially with only 5 to 7 lbs.
Click to expand...
DO IT!!!!!
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Makes sense to me, I was just curious. Sounds like a good plan really.



There is no replacement for a turbo at altitude imo. When I was running an 18 6.2 ford at work, it did mostly OK with heavy loads until I got up in altitude. On the other hand, my wife ecoboost F150 doesn't care. Even though the 6.2 has 50hp and 50 tq on the 2.7, I think it would have a hard time keeping up in the mountains.

Adding a turbo is a lot of complexity though, which kinda goes away from the point of getting a gas 3/4 or 1t truck.

I wonder how dumb a rear mount self contained turbo would be for this? Basically the only big thing would be running the intake pipe to the engine bay. Worst case the turbo shits the bed, you just disconnect and keep driving?

Edit: Rear mounts are obviously horrible for lag. But for towing it really shouldn't be an issue, especially with only 5 to 7 lbs.
Click to expand...
arse_sidewards said:
DO IT!!!!!
Click to expand...


edited the last post, should have said rpms @70...


so yeah i know the next steps to take for regear, its really the turbo option that throws me a curve ball. the guy i'd be copying is planning on a rear mount. he talked allot about the oil thing and some newer turbos are self contained but more maintenace? i really dont care about turbo lag, i'm totally happy with the truck the way it is other than the mountain passes and high altitude. i re-read this article everytime i start thinking turbo again;
www.drivingline.com

Ford F-250 5.4L Turbo Upgrade

Breathing new life into one of Ford's most common V8 engines.
www.drivingline.com www.drivingline.com

seems pretty straight forward and simple. i've even thought follow everything they did turbo, wastegate, injectors, etc. it seems to easy? like a weekend project other than tuning. i know nothing of tuning but as i understand the guys at 5stars have done a bunch of these and can walk me thru it.

another side thought i've had is, peddle to the floor, driving it as hard as i can i'm getting about 6.4mpg with gears i dont think i'll get any worse and be happy. but with boost, maybe even worse mpg... i cant do that. on a 3k mi trip it adds up quick. if with gears i get a little better mpg and turbo a little worse, hands down i'd go with gears.

i also like and lean towards gears because i know i can knock it out in a weekend and be ready to go, i'm sure i could do the hard parts of a turbo in a weekend, but i have no control over the computer junk.

gears will also make the trans happier... i think i'm back talking myself into gears. first camp trip this year is in april, i'll have a fire lit under my ass to do something after that i'm sure.
 
Did you never see the thread I made about 3/4t and 1t turbo gas trucks?



tracyb said:
edited the last post, should have said rpms @70...


so yeah i know the next steps to take for regear, its really the turbo option that throws me a curve ball. the guy i'd be copying is planning on a rear mount. he talked allot about the oil thing and some newer turbos are self contained but more maintenace?
Click to expand...

I've never heard of an oil free turbo, they spin so fast, it's hard to imagine them lasting long. A self contained oil system would be very simple and has been done many times.

tracyb said:
i really dont care about turbo lag, i'm totally happy with the truck the way it is other than the mountain passes and high altitude. i re-read this article everytime i start thinking turbo again;
www.drivingline.com

Ford F-250 5.4L Turbo Upgrade

Breathing new life into one of Ford's most common V8 engines.
www.drivingline.com www.drivingline.com
Click to expand...

Thats awesome! Those numbers are impressive.

tracyb said:
seems pretty straight forward and simple. i've even thought follow everything they did turbo, wastegate, injectors, etc. it seems to easy? like a weekend project other than tuning. i know nothing of tuning but as i understand the guys at 5stars have done a bunch of these and can walk me thru it.

another side thought i've had is, peddle to the floor, driving it as hard as i can i'm getting about 6.4mpg with gears i dont think i'll get any worse and be happy. but with boost, maybe even worse mpg... i cant do that. on a 3k mi trip it adds up quick. if with gears i get a little better mpg and turbo a little worse, hands down i'd go with gears.
Click to expand...

I don't see it being worse if you're doing the same work. If you put bigger injectors and boost in, then still floor it up a hill, you're going to probably use more fuel, but being going faster. I'm not 100% sure but if you stay low boost, like 5-6 lbs, you may be OK with stock injectors

tracyb said:
i also like and lean towards gears because i know i can knock it out in a weekend and be ready to go, i'm sure i could do the hard parts of a turbo in a weekend, but i have no control over the computer junk.

gears will also make the trans happier... i think i'm back talking myself into gears. first camp trip this year is in april, i'll have a fire lit under my ass to do something after that i'm sure.
Click to expand...

Gears are the safe bet, you know what youre getting there.
 
tracyb said:
on nampa to st anthonys pull the altitude gain really aint helping things either. and that brings in the thought to just leave the gears and do a low boost turbo.. decisions decisions. i like the gears because i dont want to mess with the motor, but maybe messing with the motor will be best of both worlds. power at altitude and power enough to avoid the annoying gear change. i wouldn't even think of turbo as i've never messed with one, but a buddy thats a big rig mechanic is going to be doing one to his truck so i'd have someone to copy and hold my hand.

i also really like being able to take the truck any shop when it needs something, and keeping motor stock would make that easier. or maybe not
Click to expand...



I’ve not driven from Mt Home to Arco, ID. Is that a beast of a climb? Seems like there’s not a lot of hills from Pocatello to Rexburg?


My thoughts on gears and this V10. My truck has 4.10 gears. I’ve thought MANY times about a bump to 4.56. I HATE overgeared rigs unless I’m in 4 low. With the stock trucks being available with 4.30 and me running the 4.10 and stock 32” tires, I think the 4.56 gears would be pretty interesting to try. If they were more than I was after, I just bump up to some 35” tires and I’m down around 4.30ish gears. However, the truck pulls pretty respectably with the 4.10 and the 32”. For the last couple years, I’ve daily driven my F350. (We built a house). The 4.10 works for everything so I’ve just stayed there


My son has a 2011 F150 with 5.0L. That 5.0L is a pulling little bugger with a single car hauler behind it. If you’re just towing a Jeep on a trailer, I’d go with a later model half ton. He gets about 11 mpg towing and I get 8 mpg. I can get 6.5-7 mpg towing two rigs on that 28’ gooseneck. I’ve sold the gooseneck and just have the single car hauler now. I think I’m going to pick up a 26-30’ bumper pull and just go with that. Loses me literally a ton of trailer weight vs the gooseneck and I can split fuel with someone.

Yell if you know someone wanting to dump a longer bumper pull trailer, preferably a car hauler style so I can haul a muscle car or two on it. Putting my car on a deckover just seemed like an incident in waiting.
 
mbryson said:
I’ve not driven from Mt Home to Arco, ID. Is that a beast of a climb? Seems like there’s not a lot of hills from Pocatello to Rexburg?


My thoughts on gears and this V10. My truck has 4.10 gears. I’ve thought MANY times about a bump to 4.56. I HATE overgeared rigs unless I’m in 4 low. With the stock trucks being available with 4.30 and me running the 4.10 and stock 32” tires, I think the 4.56 gears would be pretty interesting to try. If they were more than I was after, I just bump up to some 35” tires and I’m down around 4.30ish gears. However, the truck pulls pretty respectably with the 4.10 and the 32”. For the last couple years, I’ve daily driven my F350. (We built a house). The 4.10 works for everything so I’ve just stayed there


My son has a 2011 F150 with 5.0L. That 5.0L is a pulling little bugger with a single car hauler behind it. If you’re just towing a Jeep on a trailer, I’d go with a later model half ton. He gets about 11 mpg towing and I get 8 mpg. I can get 6.5-7 mpg towing two rigs on that 28’ gooseneck. I’ve sold the gooseneck and just have the single car hauler now. I think I’m going to pick up a 26-30’ bumper pull and just go with that. Loses me literally a ton of trailer weight vs the gooseneck and I can split fuel with someone.

Yell if you know someone wanting to dump a longer bumper pull trailer, preferably a car hauler style so I can haul a muscle car or two on it. Putting my car on a deckover just seemed like an incident in waiting.
Click to expand...

I don't think you'll be loosing as much wieght as you think with similar length trailers. Long bumper pulls suck too.

Pick up a 16-18' car hauler that you can buzz around with 1 rig and keep the gooseneck for 2 rigs.
 
mbryson said:
I’ve not driven from Mt Home to Arco, ID. Is that a beast of a climb? Seems like there’s not a lot of hills from Pocatello to Rexburg?


My thoughts on gears and this V10. My truck has 4.10 gears. I’ve thought MANY times about a bump to 4.56. I HATE overgeared rigs unless I’m in 4 low. With the stock trucks being available with 4.30 and me running the 4.10 and stock 32” tires, I think the 4.56 gears would be pretty interesting to try. If they were more than I was after, I just bump up to some 35” tires and I’m down around 4.30ish gears. However, the truck pulls pretty respectably with the 4.10 and the 32”. For the last couple years, I’ve daily driven my F350. (We built a house). The 4.10 works for everything so I’ve just stayed there


My son has a 2011 F150 with 5.0L. That 5.0L is a pulling little bugger with a single car hauler behind it. If you’re just towing a Jeep on a trailer, I’d go with a later model half ton. He gets about 11 mpg towing and I get 8 mpg. I can get 6.5-7 mpg towing two rigs on that 28’ gooseneck. I’ve sold the gooseneck and just have the single car hauler now. I think I’m going to pick up a 26-30’ bumper pull and just go with that. Loses me literally a ton of trailer weight vs the gooseneck and I can split fuel with someone.

Yell if you know someone wanting to dump a longer bumper pull trailer, preferably a car hauler style so I can haul a muscle car or two on it. Putting my car on a deckover just seemed like an incident in waiting.
Click to expand...
we dont take that route. i'm told its allot more windy and up and down. running 84 it not really a bad strecth but its about worst case senerio for my truck. 5.4 rolling 23k last trip. it gains 3k ft in elevation on that trip, if i didn't feel the power loss i'd hardly notice it. i prefer to drive 90 over and drop down thru montana to get to st anthonys but we have friends in nampa so we go that way if notin a hurry.

i'm sure i'd be happy with 410 in a v10 truck. i wouldn't touch it.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
I don't think you'll be loosing as much wieght as you think with similar length trailers. Long bumper pulls suck too.

Pick up a 16-18' car hauler that you can buzz around with 1 rig and keep the gooseneck for 2 rigs.
Click to expand...


Goose is already gone. Deckover on the goose wasn't ideal for the Buick. I traded the goose and some cash and now have a 16' car hauler. Disappointed in fuel mileage when towing the Jeep on the short car hauler. 23k on that 5.4 is a load for sure. I think I'm that with a friend's Brute and my 5k cutie from SLC-South Lake Tahoe and back a couple years ago. (I actually think I'm just a bit under that?)

7200 lb 2010 F350
5900 PJ gooseneck in 28'
5000 "Jeep" (normal trail weight is 4900)
4800 "Brute" (I've not weighed that but it weighs a good bit more than my son's '97 TJ at 3800)
500 lbs of people and gear

22900 lbs according my Excel sheet in the other monitor.

My 28' PJ gooseneck deckover was 5900 lbs. My 26' bumper pull Paiute trailer was 4000 lbs. 1900 lbs seems like a lot to me and especially to my V10? I surprisingly liked the 26' bumper pull. I ran the 14k Equalizer hitch and really liked the setup behind my 7.3L Powerjokes and my '04 Cummings. The 26' was just the right length for two Jeeps (a CJ8 and a YJ fit on there) and not SO long when I only had one rig on it. I have an F350 with V10. Suspension wise, it seems to laugh at trailers if you have them set up correctly. Best pickup towing chassis I've got experience with (could say that about all Stuper Duty trucks I've driven/owned).
 
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23k... it was just a little shy of that on the way home.

cclb with steel flat bed, can-am x3 on the truck. 26ft toyhauler trailer with a rzr xp1k. then of course family of 4 and a mountain of shit for the kids. (typical trip is only one sxs, this trip two and extras) there is a weigh station on our way back thats hardly manned, they leave the scale reading towards the window. its a pretty well balanced load, rear axle is overweight, the others real close (who cares about gvwr, i go by axle ratings:lmao:) i cant remember if it was axle or tire rating but the rear was over around 1k lbs. i couldn't believe it did so well


and absolutely on the best towing. thats the whole reason i own the truck. the motor gets it done but leaves allot to be desired. but most of all it tows awesome, and stops!
i really wanted to go for an obs ford tow rig, hopped up 7.3... etc. but, id rather drive a '10 super duty with a 5.4 10x better in every way, but power. good thing i dont mind holding it to the floor, for hours on end.
 
If all goes as planned I should be picking up an 05 V10 tomorrow morning.

CCLB Lariat with a ZF6. Pretty sure it's got 4:30s as well, axle code 4L in the door jamb

It's a SRW truck when I really wanted a dually. But If I really want a DRW again that's just an axle, spacers, and a flatbed away. Though that doesn't gain me any legal GVWR.
 
Picked it up over the weekend.

Seems like a bit of a unicorn truck.

It needs a bit of work but overall not bad.

I picked up a set of stock take-off wheels and tires to replace the cracked and dry rotted nittos.

It's making a bit of wheel bearing noise so I'll have to take care of that soon.

I'll probably attempt spark plugs while I'm waiting for plates to come in the mail. Super excited to learn about broken ford plugs. It's got a miss/stumble at idle so I'm assuming they're old.

It did good towing my trailer across base.

20220204_141135.jpg


20220208_172241.jpg


20220208_172228.jpg


20220206_161827.jpg
 
granitestatedestroyer said:
Picked it up over the weekend.

Seems like a bit of a unicorn truck.

It needs a bit of work but overall not bad.

I picked up a set of stock take-off wheels and tires to replace the cracked and dry rotted nittos.

It's making a bit of wheel bearing noise so I'll have to take care of that soon.

I'll probably attempt spark plugs while I'm waiting for plates to come in the mail. Super excited to learn about broken ford plugs. It's got a miss/stumble at idle so I'm assuming they're old.

It did good towing my trailer across base.
Click to expand...

Sweet truck. Did you confirm it has 4.30s?

Odd it doesnt have floor shift transfercase.
 
granitestatedestroyer said:
Picked it up over the weekend.

Seems like a bit of a unicorn truck.

It needs a bit of work but overall not bad.

I picked up a set of stock take-off wheels and tires to replace the cracked and dry rotted nittos.

It's making a bit of wheel bearing noise so I'll have to take care of that soon.

I'll probably attempt spark plugs while I'm waiting for plates to come in the mail. Super excited to learn about broken ford plugs. It's got a miss/stumble at idle so I'm assuming they're old.
Click to expand...
Nice looking truck. I got lucky when I did my plugs and didn't break any, hopefully you have the same luck.
 
I'd LOVE to tow with that stickshift. How heavy will you be towing?
 
TRINDU said:
Sweet truck. Did you confirm it has 4.30s?

Odd it doesnt have floor shift transfercase.
Click to expand...
Yes, it has 4:30 gears. Ford tech buddy of mine looked it up in the Ford computer.

I'm assuming it's esof because lariat.

IMG_2760.jpg

90supra said:
Nice looking truck. I got lucky when I did my plugs and didn't break any, hopefully you have the same luck.
Click to expand...

Hopefully, we'll see. I'm probably going to buy the tool before the project so I don't have to sit around and wait if they do break.


mbryson said:
I'd LOVE to tow with that stickshift. How heavy will you be towing?
Click to expand...

Normally only cars and small shit. But when I move, hopefully this summer I will load that enclosed right up with all my stuff. It's a 14k trailer and I'll use all of it.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
My buddy has a ~08 dodge with a manual trans and electric tcase. I can't fathom what the oems were thinking when they thought up that combo:homer:
Click to expand...
The OEMs like it because less floor/carpet/trim fuckery between 2wd/4wd

It's not bad for the average driver but I hate it because the button is slower than a lever.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Those early ones weren't exactly reliable either.
Click to expand...


That's my least favorite "technology" upgrade I've seen. A $30 lever to operate the 4x4 that's 98+% reliable vs a $300-500 electric motor to do the "work" for you of pulling a lever. Failure of electrical components could be life threatening in the wrong situation (storm or otherwise especially in a remote area where a wrecker isn't exactly available) all to appease folks that think pulling a lever is inconvenient and difficult. If the lever fails, you just get under the truck and figure out how to move the transfer case into the correct location. Possible on the electronic shifted cases?
 
mbryson said:
That's my least favorite "technology" upgrade I've seen. A $30 lever to operate the 4x4 that's 98+% reliable vs a $300-500 electric motor to do the "work" for you of pulling a lever. Failure of electrical components could be life threatening in the wrong situation (storm or otherwise especially in a remote area where a wrecker isn't exactly available) all to appease folks that think pulling a lever is inconvenient and difficult. If the lever fails, you just get under the truck and figure out how to move the transfer case into the correct location. Possible on the electronic shifted cases?
Click to expand...

I'm sure there is a way to pull the motor off or something. May not be possible to get under there depending on the situation.

They seem to have it figured out now, but I mean it's got a manual trans that you have to shift 100s of times a day, but manually shifting to 4wd twice a year is too much of a pain? :laughing:
 
90supra said:
Yes possible. The motor failed on my 08 F350. It took 3 10mm bolts to take the motor off then an open wrench to turn the shaft.
Click to expand...


Good to know it's just a superficial motor and the actuator is still accessible.
 
Even the first gen electric ones were more reliable than the levers around here. Unless you used 4x4 a lot the linkaged would seize up in fairly short order.
 
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