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Upgrade axles on enclosed trailer?

YotaAtieToo

YotaAtieToo

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Thinking about selling my 7x14 7k enclosed and getting something like an 8x20. Problem is that a lot of them still use 3500lb axles.

How much different are the frame on a typical 7k enclosed vs a 10k?

I figured if I can get one cheap enough I'd just go to 7k axles with 16s.
 
I had an 8x24 14k enclosed made for me in 2018.

the frame is fucking huge, I think its 8" tall. It is a heavy trailer even empty.

however, I have not managed to overload it yet.
 
granitestatedestroyer said:
I had an 8x24 14k enclosed made for me in 2018.

the frame is fucking huge, I think its 8" tall. It is a heavy trailer even empty.

however, I have not managed to overload it yet.
Click to expand...

To be clear, I don't plan to try and actually haul 14k in it, just a Toyota crawler and some gear. Definitely over what 3500s will take. Just figured if I'm upgrading, why not skip 5200s and go 7k?

I guess I was just curious if there was really a difference between the 7k and 10k trailer frame in that size?
 
I'm a fan of oversized axles and wheels.

After ripping off my 2000 lbs axle from my double sled trailer I made a subframe and mounted tandem 3500 lbs axles. Now when I shit out a wheel bearing I just chain up the bad axle and keep trucking.

Also lets you run shit tires for way longer (they don't even know they're loaded).
 
From the handful I have worked on the enclosed frame size seems to be based more on the size of the trailer than the weight rating of the axles. Once you get over ~20ft they seem to have a decent sized frame. I like 7k axles on everything to share tires and spare parts.

I've done a few for off-road friends that wanted the enclosed trailer lifted up a bit for ground clearance or bed clearance (gooseneck) if you have any frame concerns just build a sub frame spanning a good length of the trailer.

Only picture I have handy but here is the start of an 8ft "subframe" to mount some used 7k axles, it had 3 crossmembers not shown

441250147_750835010456058_2037518965191706363_n.jpg


Also if you are buying new torsion axles you can get them clocked at different heights to adjust ride height. Here is a 24ft enclosed, it had a decently sized frame already, I just bolted on the new 7k axles ordered clocked to the height I wanted.

44932903_10102797275714298_6400832693721890816_n.jpg
 
The frame dimensions depend on the manufacturer more than anything else don't they? Some 14k trailers have the same frame rails as 10k (or less) from what I've seen.

The frame rails on my Haulmark 28' enclosed 14k trailer is 8"x2" rectangular tubing. Can't recall if it's 1/4" wall or thicker, but it's pretty beefy.
 
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When I purchase my enclosed a few years ago I had the manufacturer upgrade the axles to 7Ks. It was a minor upcharge vs me doing it a home.
Totally worth the peace of mind of more axle than trailer.
Mine is 8x20' love it, but often wonder if a 24' would have been better.
 
tac1 said:
From the handful I have worked on the enclosed frame size seems to be based more on the size of the trailer than the weight rating of the axles. Once you get over ~20ft they seem to have a decent sized frame. I like 7k axles on everything to share tires and spare parts.

I've done a few for off-road friends that wanted the enclosed trailer lifted up a bit for ground clearance or bed clearance (gooseneck) if you have any frame concerns just build a sub frame spanning a good length of the trailer.

Only picture I have handy but here is the start of an 8ft "subframe" to mount some used 7k axles, it had 3 crossmembers not shown
Click to expand...

I had the same exact thought if the frame looks weak. Id plan to take it "off road" and hate how a lot of them are 6" off the ground, so it would all work out perfect.

tac1 said:
Also if you are buying new torsion axles you can get them clocked at different heights to adjust ride height. Here is a 24ft enclosed, it had a decently sized frame already, I just bolted on the new 7k axles ordered clocked to the height I wanted.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I'd want torsions or not. I've just never liked them that much. Although my current 7x14 has them, it does seem to float over pot holes well, but worse on bumps?



RustyC said:
When I purchase my enclosed a few years ago I had the manufacturer upgrade the axles to 7Ks. It was a minor upcharge vs me doing it a home.
Totally worth the peace of mind of more axle than trailer.
Mine is 8x20' love it, but often wonder if a 24' would have been better.
Click to expand...

What's dumb is my father in law has an 8.5x24 with 7k axles he's going to sell. I'm not sure I want one that big, it's black, which I don't want and he wants way too much. It's still very tempting though.
 
FYI, I think 3500lb and 5200lb axles use the same spindles. It is simple to put 6 lug hubs on a 3500lb axle.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
There is lots of crossover on trailer axles, I thought it was the 5200,6k,7k,8k that used the same spindles though.
Click to expand...
That sounds right.

Spindles don't change until above that iirc. Depends on the mfg as usual, but in general this sounds correct.
 
RustyC said:
When I purchase my enclosed a few years ago I had the manufacturer upgrade the axles to 7Ks. It was a minor upcharge vs me doing it a home.
Totally worth the peace of mind of more axle than trailer.
Mine is 8x20' love it, but often wonder if a 24' would have been better.
Click to expand...
I was agree. I upgraded my 7k axles to two 7k. Bolt pattern and tire size between the truck and trailer are the same. Never lose tires anymore. Chain up an axle if you have a problem.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
There is lots of crossover on trailer axles, I thought it was the 5200,6k,7k,8k that used the same spindles though.
Click to expand...
Yes, this is true. All 52 thru 7k are a size 52 spindle. Just built axles for my dump trailer. All three are 52’s. Drums can be six or eight lug. Which ever you choose.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Thinking about selling my 7x14 7k enclosed and getting something like an 8x20. Problem is that a lot of them still use 3500lb axles.

How much different are the frame on a typical 7k enclosed vs a 10k?

I figured if I can get one cheap enough I'd just go to 7k axles with 16s.
Click to expand...

I'd match the axles to the load you're planning on carrying. You'll beat up the trailer and cargo more if you're way over sprung and it's bouncing all over the place all the time instead of soaking up bumps through the leaves or torsion.
 
Snowy said:
I'd match the axles to the load you're planning on carrying. You'll beat up the trailer and cargo more if you're way over sprung and it's bouncing all over the place all the time instead of soaking up bumps through the leaves or torsion.
Click to expand...

Fair point. Plan would be a ~5500 lbs crawler, plus maybe a few dirt bikes, tools and gear. So really, I wonder if 10k would be near its limits?

The other thing would be to just have dirt bikes in it, or maybe samurai plus dirt bikes.

Honestly, DIY air ride isn't that hard or expensive.......
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Fair point. Plan would be a ~5500 lbs crawler, plus maybe a few dirt bikes, tools and gear. So really, I wonder if 10k would be near its limits?
Click to expand...

All depends how much the trailer weighs. Enclosed trailers tend to be pretty heavy unless they're aluminum framed, and even then, still heavy.

My 6000# crawler with food and beer has my 14k axle set right at the limit with how heavy the trailer is.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Fair point. Plan would be a ~5500 lbs crawler, plus maybe a few dirt bikes, tools and gear. So really, I wonder if 10k would be near its limits?

The other thing would be to just have dirt bikes in it, or maybe samurai plus dirt bikes.

Honestly, DIY air ride isn't that hard or expensive.......
Click to expand...

Get a 24' for a tag enclosed car hauler, you wont regret the extra length, and it'll weigh roughly 4k lbs empty by the time you get it 7' tall inside too. So work back from there...5500 lb crawler and probably 1k worth of extra gear puts you at 9500 total. About 1k will be tongue weight and you'll have 8500 lbs on the axles.
 
GLTHFJ60 said:
All depends how much the trailer weighs. Enclosed trailers tend to be pretty heavy unless they're aluminum framed, and even then, still heavy.

My 6000# crawler with food and beer has my 14k axle set right at the limit with how heavy the trailer is.
Click to expand...

This is why I figured just skip 5200s, unless I get one with them, then I could see how it went. I was just curious if getting a trailer with 3500s and planning on 7k's was a waste of time, since I know it would be with most any car trailer.

There is an 8x20 with 3500s for $5500 locally. The ones with 7k's are usually $12k+ so I have some room to make some upgrades and still be money ahead.

We have 3 kids, and with a camper in the bed, the trailer is the catch all. With 6 bikes and 3 days of gear, the current trailer was pretty packed. Plus I'd like to get a generator, so may as well bring the welder, and air compressor and......

Snowy said:
Get a 24' for a tag enclosed car hauler, you wont regret the extra length, and it'll weigh roughly 4k lbs empty by the time you get it 7' tall inside too. So work back from there...5500 lb crawler and probably 1k worth of extra gear puts you at 9500 total. About 1k will be tongue weight and you'll have 8500 lbs on the axles.
Click to expand...

Planning on using this for long 10+ day trips, so it's going to get packed full of shit. If be shocked if I came in under 9k on the axles.

Also, the crawler was 5k last I checked, but with 1 tons 42s and all the stuff for 5 people, it's probably more like 6500+ trail ready being realistic.
 
Advice for buying an enclosed that a crawler will go in. Get the wide door option (generally shown by the taillights in the ramp door) and get the extra height model if at all possible.

Went from a flat roof, enclosed gooseneck with 76" interior height with a buggy that had 74" ride height (so had to use suck down winch to load/unload) to a rounded roof enclosed gooseneck with 91" interior height. Makes loading and unloading so much easier, as well as opened up high storage options on the trailer walls too.
 
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YotaAtieToo said:
There is an 8x20 with 3500s for $5500 locally. The ones with 7k's are usually $12k+ so I have some room to make some upgrades and still be money ahead.
Click to expand...

I hear you, just make sure if you do that you get one that's got a substantial frame. It would suck to stick bigger axles in the trailer and you bend it first time out by overloading the chassis/tongue. Frame rail dimensions aren't enough, gotta figure out the wall thickness too.
 
GLTHFJ60 said:
I hear you, just make sure if you do that you get one that's got a substantial frame. It would suck to stick bigger axles in the trailer and you bend it first time out by overloading the chassis/tongue. Frame rail dimensions aren't enough, gotta figure out the wall thickness too.
Click to expand...

Right, I'm not opposed to adding some material to the frame, but then probably need a new tounge, ect. Obviously there is a point where it stops making sense.
 
GLTHFJ60 said:
Not sure if what he said is true exactly, but I know that my 7k torsion dexters use the same bearings as lower capacity axles. Roller taper bearings are usually not the weak point when talking about axle capacity.
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This. When has anyone ever trashed a trailer spindle from anything other than ignoring maintenance? The tube fucks off and the axle bends.

Muckin_Slusher said:
Also lets you run shit tires for way longer (they don't even know they're loaded).
Click to expand...
Hard to take advantage of if you can't fit a ~30" tire.

YotaAtieToo said:
Right, I'm not opposed to adding some material to the frame, but then probably need a new tounge, ect. Obviously there is a point where it stops making sense.
Click to expand...
You're not gonna bend the tongue without loading every bit of the trailer's capacity at the front.
 
arse_sidewards said:
This. When has anyone ever trashed a trailer spindle from anything other than ignoring maintenance? The tube fucks off and the axle bends.
Click to expand...
I've had a loaned out trailer come back with 4 bent solid spindles. Guy I loaned it to put boards on the side and loaded the 8x14 deck with limestone. No idea what it weighed but the spindles were all bent up after that. I flipped the axles over but it wasn't long before one snapped right off.

I've also seen a bunch of them on torsion suspension break right off, and I attribute it to the grease holes (that's where they always break).

Not my pic, just proof:

20200619_182510_c97a048eb4db818386265c7e23aa28c36468acb5.jpg
 
Muckin_Slusher said:
I've had a loaned out trailer come back with 4 bent solid spindles. Guy I loaned it to put boards on the side and loaded the 8x14 deck with limestone. No idea what it weighed but the spindles were all bent up after that. I flipped the axles over but it wasn't long before one snapped right off.
Click to expand...
Impressive.

I've seen them bend the tube in the middle or between the spring and the spindle but never the spindle.
Muckin_Slusher said:
I've also seen a bunch of them on torsion suspension break right off, and I attribute it to the grease holes (that's where they always break).
Click to expand...
I've never seen a torsion axle on something that wasn't so nice and new it wasn't getting abused. :laughing:
 
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arse_sidewards said:
I've never seen a torsion axle on something that wasn't so nice and new it wasn't getting abused. :laughing:
Click to expand...
With torsion axles not having equalizers to compensate for the wrong hitch height, don't even have to be overloaded to be abused.

Also seen lots of them with a mile between axles, making things worse.
 
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