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Unit bearing trailer axles?

YotaAtieToo said:
I guess you have never taken a trailer axle apart before :laughing:

The hub and drum are 1 piece. :homer:
Click to expand...
you can get separate drums for electric brakes
I found them when I was trying to put electric brakes on a 14b
but they're more money than the ones with hubs integrated...

later on I had the idea of pinning a small rotor to the back of the hub (a ventilated one with the studs counterbored through the first surface) for the magnet, then running iirc 10.25" drums as a slide over over top of the whole mess
understandably it went nowhere as I found other projects to occupy my time
 
welndmn said:
I don't see brakes as that big of issue.
Use all the standard trailer electric drum parts, redrill the backing plate for the unit bearing 4 bolt pattern, probably need a spacer for backing plate to drum as truck unit bearings are quite wide. If you have 8 on 170mm you just redrill the drum to match.
A ton of us redrill super duty unit bearings to 8 on 6.5 and have to drill the rotor too, it's easy.
I don't see disc brakes being a advantage on flat bed trailers.
Click to expand...
Not going to be nearly cheap as you think. Buying all that stuff for each corner will add up quickly compared to OE brake parts. I would imagine the best and cheapest option is going to be using the stock discs and calipers and buying an electric/hydro brake actuator or (EEK) a surge brake coupler. I still want to try to mod an ABS pump to do this some day.
 
larboc said:
I still want to try to mod an ABS pump to do this some day.
Click to expand...
I was thinking about it the other day, you'd just want to wire up the pump and the 'hold' solenoid to the brake controller wires
if the brake controller doesn't supply enough juice then you'd have to get a little more creative, but I bet 10A would give enough pressure to actuate some drum brakes with large wheel cylinders

when the brake current shuts off, the hold solenoid releases and the brakes should release on their own, because you can bleed ABS cars without finagling with the solenoids
otherwise there's the dump solenoid that could be wired through NC relay contacts to the 12v battery charging wires on the 7-pin, brake controller opens the relay contacts to close the dump valve
 
[486] said:
I was thinking about it the other day, you'd just want to wire up the pump and the 'hold' solenoid to the brake controller wires
if the brake controller doesn't supply enough juice then you'd have to get a little more creative, but I bet 10A would give enough pressure to actuate some drum brakes with large wheel cylinders

when the brake current shuts off, the hold solenoid releases and the brakes should release on their own, because you can bleed ABS cars without finagling with the solenoids
otherwise there's the dump solenoid that could be wired through NC relay contacts to the 12v battery charging wires on the 7-pin, brake controller opens the relay contacts to close the dump valve
Click to expand...
microcontroller monitoring brake controller output.
pressure transducer on ABS unit output.
solid state relay to trigger 12v to the pump.

proportional brake hydraulic controller.
that's what's likely in the titan/dexter box, but I've never seen inside one.
 
[486] said:
I was thinking about it the other day, you'd just want to wire up the pump and the 'hold' solenoid to the brake controller wires
if the brake controller doesn't supply enough juice then you'd have to get a little more creative, but I bet 10A would give enough pressure to actuate some drum brakes with large wheel cylinders

when the brake current shuts off, the hold solenoid releases and the brakes should release on their own, because you can bleed ABS cars without finagling with the solenoids
otherwise there's the dump solenoid that could be wired through NC relay contacts to the 12v battery charging wires on the 7-pin, brake controller opens the relay contacts to close the dump valve
Click to expand...
If I had more energy and time I'd take it a step further, use the abs sensors in the unit bearings and make a BCM that would apply brakes over CAN and give the trailer brakes ABS and stabilitrac. I will never do this, but like to think I could.
 
87manche said:
microcontroller monitoring brake controller output.
pressure transducer on ABS unit output.
solid state relay to trigger 12v to the pump.

proportional brake hydraulic controller.
that's what's likely in the titan/dexter box, but I've never seen inside one.
Click to expand...
I've been using RC hobby speed controllers to simplify stuff like this recently and it works really effing well. The signal to a hobby brushed motor speed control is really easy to use with anything from arduino to dspace and it gives a really nice clean variable DC voltage at a fairly impressive amperage for the size, cost and ease. . Been using them for precision heater controls and the proportional loading of the DC supply keeps the power supply voltage much more stable too. Would work well for this.
 
[486] said:
you can get separate drums for electric brakes
I found them when I was trying to put electric brakes on a 14b
but they're more money than the ones with hubs integrated...

later on I had the idea of pinning a small rotor to the back of the hub (a ventilated one with the studs counterbored through the first surface) for the magnet, then running iirc 10.25" drums as a slide over over top of the whole mess
understandably it went nowhere as I found other projects to occupy my time
Click to expand...
More money and maybe hard to find when in the middle of nowhere.

I like seeing people make off ball shit work. But on something like a trailer, I want off the shelf parts.
 
welndmn said:
I don't see brakes as that big of issue.
Use all the standard trailer electric drum parts, redrill the backing plate for the unit bearing 4 bolt pattern, probably need a spacer for backing plate to drum as truck unit bearings are quite wide. If you have 8 on 170mm you just redrill the drum to match.
A ton of us redrill super duty unit bearings to 8 on 6.5 and have to drill the rotor too, it's easy.
I don't see disc brakes being a advantage on flat bed trailers.
Click to expand...
You would probably be horrified if you saw what old drum brakes look like in the rust belt states.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
More money and maybe hard to find when in the middle of nowhere.

I like seeing people make off ball shit work. But on something like a trailer, I want off the shelf parts.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure about where you're travelling with a trailer, but for me finding any brake or hub parts for a superduty or 2500 gmt800 is going to be 10x easier to find off the shelf than any trailer axle parts that aren't 1750lb 5 on 4.5" boat trailer hubs.
 
87manche said:
microcontroller monitoring brake controller output.
pressure transducer on ABS unit output.
solid state relay to trigger 12v to the pump.

proportional brake hydraulic controller.
that's what's likely in the titan/dexter box, but I've never seen inside one.
Click to expand...
you keep your german shit outta here :flipoff2:
relay logic FTW
ChiScouter said:
You would probably be horrified if you saw what old drum brakes look like in the rust belt states.
Click to expand...
what, functional for 10x longer than rear discs?
because drums are great in the salt
dexter trailer brakes are designed by retards that have no clue what a labyrinth seal is supposed to look like though so they're about equal with discs on the "rust solid then burn themselves up" scale
 
[486] said:
you keep your german shit outta here :flipoff2:
relay logic FTW

what, functional for 10x longer than rear discs?
because drums are great in the salt
dexter trailer brakes are designed by retards that have no clue what a labyrinth seal is supposed to look like though so they're about equal with discs on the "rust solid then burn themselves up" scale
Click to expand...
ABS pump will go full pressure everytime you step on the pedal with just a relay.

gonna lock up trailer tires when you breathe on the pedal.
 
87manche said:
ABS pump will go full pressure everytime you step on the pedal with just a relay.

gonna lock up trailer tires when you breathe on the pedal.
Click to expand...
thus feeding the pump directly from the brake controller wire which is already a moderate current PWM signal that you can adjust from the driver's seat
 
You know, there's 3521 people that want to use a junkyard abs system on a trailer. But we know we won't. Maybe we oughtta crowd fund an enginerd to try it, $10ea. So that way we can either see it work and change the world, or stfu about it forever:laughing:
 
[486] said:
thus feeding the pump directly from the brake controller wire which is already a moderate current PWM signal that you can adjust from the driver's seat
Click to expand...
40A current draw.
and if you can't adjust it to work properly from a brake controller?
I'm a computer nerd, we solve everything with processors.

Projectjunkie said:
You know, there's 3521 people that want to use a junkyard abs system on a trailer. But we know we won't. Maybe we oughtta crowd fund an enginerd to try it, $10ea. So that way we can either see it work and change the world, or stfu about it forever:laughing:
Click to expand...
or you could just buy one that works for $800 and use the factory truck brake parts.

but it would be an interesting project.
 
larboc said:
Not going to be nearly cheap as you think. Buying all that stuff for each corner will add up quickly compared to OE brake parts. I would imagine the best and cheapest option is going to be using the stock discs and calipers and buying an electric/hydro brake actuator or (EEK) a surge brake coupler. I still want to try to mod an ABS pump to do this some day.
Click to expand...
Compared the trailer parts the cost would be astronomical.
But I'd bet the truck parts would outlast trailer parts.
IF you look at most of the people that tow in very remote places, we have a spare trailer axle strapped under the trailer, I think the one builders even offers it as option now too.
I hate trailers, I have broken down so many times because some crap trailer part decided it was it's time to die.
 
Are you idiots really BDLing so often that getting dragged backwards down a hill is a serious concern or that you need to use the trailer brake controller to get your shit straightened out and not wreck?

Because if you're not running into those two situations on the regular surge brakes work just fine.

There's a reason pretty much every trailer that's expected to get dunked in salt water uses surge brakes or no brakes.

I'd kick in $10 toward engineering. If I get a junkyard parts list that lets me build an electric over hydraulic controller for $120 out of the deal that would be worth it because that's cheaper than a surge coupler.
 
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arse_sidewards said:
Are you idiots really BDLing so often that getting dragged backwards down a hill is a serious concern or that you need to use the trailer brake controller to get your shit straightened out and not wreck?

Because if you're not running into those two situations on the regular surge brakes work just fine.

There's a reason pretty much every trailer that's expected to get dunked in salt water uses surge brakes or no brakes.

I'd kick in $10 toward engineering. If I get a junkyard parts list that lets me build an electric over hydraulic controller for $120 out of the deal that would be worth it because that's cheaper than a surge coupler.
Click to expand...
Gooseneck surge brakes?
 
welndmn said:
New to the internet? They make slip on 12" 8 lug drums :P
Click to expand...
OK, so they make a lot of shit. Doesn't make it plentiful, or cost effective.

My buddy runs a place that's bread and butter is trailer service and repair. They have shelfs of drums, I've never seen a slip on one there. I also can't find them via Google. Not saying they don't exist, but seems like the last type of part I'd want to run.
 
87manche said:
40A current draw.
Click to expand...
at full pressure and all
it'd prolly only make a couple hundred psi being fed power from a brake controller, thus the self-energizing drums with large wheel cylinders
welndmn said:
New to the internet? They make slip on 12" 8 lug drums :P
Click to expand...
not for electric brakes they don't
all of the dexter ones use a magnet position that intersects an 8x6.5" bolt pattern right about in the middle, so you obviously can't have a slip-on drum with that shit on there

they do make /separate/ drums but you pin them onto hubs with the lug studs
 
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