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The official KOH week watch party thread.

* I haven't followed every single page of this thread, so flame away if this has already been covered*

6 Finishers within time for 4600, compared to only 4 for 4500. I'm sure there were plenty more that finished after time that probably skews this. but holy damn. I don't think I've ever seen that before in the official results.

Even if you discredit the Lovell/Healy-Gittin/ Cole Broncos, that's still pretty damn impressive...
 
Different course between 4500/4800 and 4600 plays a role in that. I was tracking Lovell with a few other rigs, then he disappeared as he went onto stock bypass; then all of sudden crossed the finish line. I don't know what they skipped, but that seemed to help. Also, I think 4600 might have had more entries than 4500 this year.

I think 4500 is slowly dying. If you are looking to enter 4800 or 4500; it seems much smarter to go 4800 and the entries seem to be going this way. There's plenty of old Jimmy's SA cars out there you can put 4800 compliant shocks on. Not to mention the ability to go to Miller or Bomber for the same SA chassis but with single shock. Look at how well Gilbert did that in his Miller chassis.

My sense is that Dave at one point thought IFS buggies would be the norm in 4400, but Miller and Bomber chassis have slowed that down. So now you can get a very good SA chassis and potentially look to step up to 4400 in a few years.
 
JohnnyJ said:
Different course between 4500/4800 and 4600 plays a role in that. I was tracking Lovell with a few other rigs, then he disappeared as he went onto stock bypass; then all of sudden crossed the finish line. I don't know what they skipped, but that seemed to help. Also, I think 4600 might have had more entries than 4500 this year.

I think 4500 is slowly dying. If you are looking to enter 4800 or 4500; it seems much smarter to go 4800 and the entries seem to be going this way. There's plenty of old Jimmy's SA cars out there you can put 4800 compliant shocks on. Not to mention the ability to go to Miller or Bomber for the same SA chassis but with single shock. Look at how well Gilbert did that in his Miller chassis.

My sense is that Dave at one point thought IFS buggies would be the norm in 4400, but Miller and Bomber chassis have slowed that down. So now you can get a very good SA chassis and potentially look to step up to 4400 in a few years.
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I totally get the bypasses for 4600 vs 4500/4800, but those finishing results surprised me. It seems like for the 10 years or so I've followed, we've been lucky to get a full podium for 4600, and a few years where only one or maybe two finished. From my perspective, it seemed like 4500 usually averaged around 10 finishers in years past. Obviously the factory prepped broncos skews that, but it's hard to take away from anyone that finishes KOH on 35s, professional driver or not...

You brought up a good point about 4500 possibly being a dying class though. I had to go back and look at the numbers:
'23 results
4600: 42 started the race, 6 finished in time. (14.2% finish rate)
4500: 28 started the race, 4 finished in time. (14.2% finish rate)
4800: 80 started the race, 32 finished in time. (40% finish rate)

'22 Results
4600: 35 started the race, 3 finished in time. (8.5% finish rate)
4500: 27 started the race, 8 finished in time. (29.6% finish rate)
4800: 68 started the race, 18 finished in time. (26.4% finish rate)

You're definitely right that 4600 seems to be growing a bit, whereas 4500 is staying pretty consistent. 4800 is obviously blowing up for all the reasons you mentioned. It's hard to judge year to year since the course changes every year, but I do think it was a down year for 4500 as far as finish rate.

Sorry, that's enough data for now. :laughing:
 
92_Chevy_1500 said:
I totally get the bypasses for 4600 vs 4500/4800, but those finishing results surprised me. It seems like for the 10 years or so I've followed, we've been lucky to get a full podium for 4600, and a few years where only one or maybe two finished. From my perspective, it seemed like 4500 usually averaged around 10 finishers in years past. Obviously the factory prepped broncos skews that, but it's hard to take away from anyone that finishes KOH on 35s, professional driver or not...

You brought up a good point about 4500 possibly being a dying class though. I had to go back and look at the numbers:
'23 results
4600: 42 started the race, 6 finished in time. (14.2% finish rate)
4500: 28 started the race, 4 finished in time. (14.2% finish rate)
4800: 80 started the race, 32 finished in time. (40% finish rate)

'22 Results
4600: 35 started the race, 3 finished in time. (8.5% finish rate)
4500: 27 started the race, 8 finished in time. (29.6% finish rate)
4800: 68 started the race, 18 finished in time. (26.4% finish rate)

You're definitely right that 4600 seems to be growing a bit, whereas 4500 is staying pretty consistent. 4800 is obviously blowing up for all the reasons you mentioned. It's hard to judge year to year since the course changes every year, but I do think it was a down year for 4500 as far as finish rate.

Sorry, that's enough data for now. :laughing:
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Thanks for the data dive so I didn’t have to do that since you piqued my comparative interests.
 
JohnnyJ said:
I think 4500 is slowly dying.
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Well yeah it's gone from an maybe/sorta afforadable class to buying portals and TT prep shops. If anyone is gonna spend that money might as well go 4800, SXS or 4400.

Another idea would be to release 75% or 50% of the track and the remainder is released on race day. That would be fun to watch.
 
Weasel said:
Well yeah it's gone from an maybe/sorta afforadable class to buying portals and TT prep shops. If anyone is gonna spend that money might as well go 4800, SXS or 4400.

Another idea would be to release 75% or 50% of the track and the remainder is released on race day. That would be fun to watch.
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Would be neat, but also probably just result in a bunch of lost people. :laughing:

Fuck it, just have them do laps until they're all broken or times out, furthest progress wins :laughing:
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Would be neat, but also probably just result in a bunch of lost people. :laughing:

Fuck it, just have them do laps until they're all broken or times out, furthest progress wins :laughing:
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There are (foot) races where it is a last man standing. Everyone starts at the exact same time. It is one lap. Racers have 1 hour to complete the lap and be back at the starting line for the next lap. Miss the start time because you're sleeping/repairing/eating and you're out.
 
Drakeslayer said:
Another time Shannon made a wrong turn and was going to miss a trail but a course marshal or volunteer “corrected” him allowing him to run the right trail.
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I can vouch that there's no secret orders that come down from the top for volunteers. We've always been pretty much on our own out there.

TimJus said:
just ban pre-running. should stop those bypass routes developing before race
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Maybe for the rock trails. At the speeds people are hitting now, it would be downright dangerous to get rid of pre running the desert sections.
 
Bebop said:
Shannon just posted on Insta that the driver's meeting was crappy.
For him to mention that it must have been a pretty big deal.
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He actually put that on his story the night that it happened. He and jess left and got in the bath tub :laughing::laughing:

RunningProblem said:
There are (foot) races where it is a last man standing. Everyone starts at the exact same time. It is one lap. Racers have 1 hour to complete the lap and be back at the starting line for the next lap. Miss the start time because you're sleeping/repairing/eating and you're out.
Click to expand...

I've done some knock-out short course mountain bike races before. They are super fun.
 
Weasel said:
Well yeah it's gone from an maybe/sorta afforadable class to buying portals and TT prep shops. If anyone is gonna spend that money might as well go 4800, SXS or 4400.

Another idea would be to release 75% or 50% of the track and the remainder is released on race day. That would be fun to watch.
Click to expand...
Imo it's becoming a redundant class, why would you bother dealing with the restrictions when it's cheaper and easier to build a 4800 car that'll be stronger, faster and easier tune? Something like a Bomber chassis, junkyard LS and tons would be pretty cheap to put together and should be able to see you across the line easily, probably won't be a race winner out of the gate but it'd be a platform that could easily be upgraded over time.
 
Donk said:
Imo it's becoming a redundant class, why would you bother dealing with the restrictions when it's cheaper and easier to build a 4800 car that'll be stronger, faster and easier tune? Something like a Bomber chassis, junkyard LS and tons would be pretty cheap to put together and should be able to see you across the line easily, probably won't be a race winner out of the gate but it'd be a platform that could easily be upgraded over time.
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I think that pretty well sums up why there are new 4800 builds but very rarely is there a new 4500 build.

I like the 4500 class since they look like a trail rig but the restrictions make them tough to work with.
 
Donk said:
Imo it's becoming a redundant class, why would you bother dealing with the restrictions when it's cheaper and easier to build a 4800 car that'll be stronger, faster and easier tune? Something like a Bomber chassis, junkyard LS and tons would be pretty cheap to put together and should be able to see you across the line easily, probably won't be a race winner out of the gate but it'd be a platform that could easily be upgraded over time.
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Does anyone know if internal bypass coil overs allowed in 4800? That probably also takes away some of the advantage of going 4500.
 
Sandy Johnson said:
Does anyone know if internal bypass coil overs allowed in 4800? That probably also takes away some of the advantage of going 4500.
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The other issue with 4500 shocks is they have to be mounted to the axle, no leading/trailing link mounted shock.
 
Sandy Johnson said:
Does anyone know if internal bypass coil overs allowed in 4800? That probably also takes away some of the advantage of going 4500.
Click to expand...
Yes the “long shocks” Shock Jesus makes are IBP and some of the bigger manufacturers are starting to make them readily available from the manufacturers.
 
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