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The Moonshine Motel - Enclosed Gooseneck "Crawler Hauler" Build

Absolutely. I'm armcharing right now, but the holup is how much height I need. To compensate for the roof curve. It's not a 90* angle from the panel to the roof curve. The angle would have to be flattened out a bit, maybe a 110* angle iron or something.

I was thinking though, if I came up with mounts that could be bolted/screwed into the trailer, then tropi-cool'd over, so they can't leak, then the panels bolted on.

I don't understand how you have these mounted. Can you expand on that? It looks clean as hell.
There are 6" aluminum angles mounted to the trailer roof with 5/16" holes in them.

The 2 panels are mounted via the normal mounts on the bottom of the panel frames to the same angle as the mounts were made out of but inverted.

This allows the feet to pivot on the single corner bolts to follow the roof arch. It also allows me to not have to disturb the sealed roof mounts for maintenance or repair.
 
This might illustrate better, although it was kind of built to tilt I've never done it.

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Absolutely. I'm armcharing right now, but the holup is how much height I need. To compensate for the roof curve. It's not a 90* angle from the panel to the roof curve. The angle would have to be flattened out a bit, maybe a 110* angle iron or something.

I was thinking though, if I came up with mounts that could be bolted/screwed into the trailer, then tropi-cool'd over, so they can't leak, then the panels bolted on.

I don't understand how you have these mounted. Can you expand on that? It looks clean as hell.
On the ends of the panel opposite the curved direction, one piece just bolts higher on the flange of the panel. The bother bolts lower. They simply are at a little angle. The panel doesn't care of its not dead flat either.
 
Yesterday was exciting for all the wrong reasons. This post will document what happened and what I did. Next post will document what I think caused it, the mistakes I made, and what needs to happen next, to prevent this from happening again.

Inverter has been off for the past few weeks, just because I haven't been using it. Didn't think a ton of it (mistake #1)

I clicked on the inverter to get things going (plugged into shore power) so that I could winterize it. Inverter said low battery, and generally it won't kick on when that happens, so I walked in the house to grab my phone. Came back out, heard a bang, thought my neighbor dropped something next door, but nope, turns out one or two of the cells in my LiFePO4 (LFP in modern speak) blew up. A fire then grew. Didn't have a fire extinguisher immediately next to the electronics (mistake #2) so I grabbed a pickaxe that was closeby and tore the batteries out. Had to pry against the very expensive inverter case to get it out (mistake #3).

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Cell #1 blew up completely and spread it's black bullshit everywhere inside the electronics cabinet (very stinky). Cell #2 swelled up like a mfer. Cells 3 and 4 got a little scorched but didn't puke.

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Since they were fucked anyway, I took the pickaxe to them to burn off whatever is coming out. Was freaking out a little bit, and figured if I got htem to burn when I was paying attention to them, that was best. Made for a good pic, but not sure i'd make that same decision again.

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Of note, the ANL fuse protecting the batteries did not blow, so this was not a dead short situation. Kinda hard to see, but trust me, it's not blown.

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Charred remains:

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Plywood battery box lid (mistake #4)

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Now, what the actual fuck happened here.

LiFePO4 (LFP) batteries aren't as flammable as other Lithium battery chemistries, primarily because they're not self-igniting, and secondarily because they aren't self-oxygenating. These things I knew. Biggest issue you can have is that if a battery blows up, the LFP battery will vent. I also knew this. What I didn't know, is that when a LFP battery vents, that vented gas from the LFP battery is itself flammable. This is a pretty fuckin important detail that I did not previously know. Reference below. Do your own research:



So, let's get into what went wrong.

Ever since I had this battery array in the trailer I had one cell that was marginal. Meaning, it didn't have the measured capacity of the others, and in general brought down the whole pack, via BMS protection, because it would get close to overvoltage, or hit undervoltage, before the rest. Not a big deal, that's why the bms is there right. Well, if a LFP battery is left in the undercharged state for too long, it can fail and offgas. Also, if it gets too cold and is attempted to be charged or discharged, it can also offgas. This is important.

Mistake #1. I left the inverter off for a few days / week, and it's been below freezing for the first time this year. Can't do that. I know the pack was in a protection state when I clicked on the inverter, because the inverter told me low battery. So, don't leave them to discharge all the way in the winter, that was dumb.

Mistake #2. I didn't have a fire extinguisher immediately next to the batteries. I didn't think that fire was a concern, but that was, in hindsight, fuckin dumb. Always have a fire extinguisher right next to your electronics, one rated for electronics fires.

Mistake #3. The battery box was right next to the inverter. This was the biggest mistake I think.

Remember when I said that the LFP produces flammable gas when they fail and offgas? Right, well having the battery next to an inverter that has large contactors within it is fuckin stupid. What I think happened is that at some point over the past few days/weeks, the battery failed and started to offgas. There's not a ton of ventilation in that area, so I assume this flammable gas was building up. When I clicked on the inverter, it didn't blow up immediately, but what I would bet happened is that one of the contactors switched on to try to charge the battery, and the tiny arc from that (inside the inverter case) was enough to ignite the flammable gas from the LFP. This flame front traveled up into the battery that had failed and caused it to blow up, blowing apart the plywood battery box.

Mistake #4. The flame at first was so small that it took me 10 seconds or so to realize it was on fire, but between that time and the time it took me to find a fucking extinguisher / tool, the plywood lit on fire. The plywood fire is what caused most of the soot and scorching.

So, fuck. What are we going to do about it, and what should I take away from this?

First of all, don't put your LFP batteries in wooden boxes.

Second, keep your LFP batteries away from ignition sources.

Third, keep electronics rated extinguishers next to your batteries, no matter the chemistry. Lithium rated extinguishers for lithium.




Wanted to share my experience. I'm going to have a rethink of my layout to deal with these new problems. I'm a bit rattled, but thankfully I was there when this happened, instead of my camper burning to the ground for me.

Be safe out there.
 
Now, what the actual fuck happened here.

LiFePO4 (LFP) batteries aren't as flammable as other Lithium battery chemistries, primarily because they're not self-igniting, and secondarily because they aren't self-oxygenating. These things I knew. Biggest issue you can have is that if a battery blows up, the LFP battery will vent. I also knew this. What I didn't know, is that when a LFP battery vents, that vented gas from the LFP battery is itself flammable. This is a pretty fuckin important detail that I did not previously know. Reference below. Do your own research:



So, let's get into what went wrong.

Ever since I had this battery array in the trailer I had one cell that was marginal. Meaning, it didn't have the measured capacity of the others, and in general brought down the whole pack, via BMS protection, because it would get close to overvoltage, or hit undervoltage, before the rest. Not a big deal, that's why the bms is there right. Well, if a LFP battery is left in the undercharged state for too long, it can fail and offgas. Also, if it gets too cold and is attempted to be charged or discharged, it can also offgas. This is important.

Mistake #1. I left the inverter off for a few days / week, and it's been below freezing for the first time this year. Can't do that. I know the pack was in a protection state when I clicked on the inverter, because the inverter told me low battery. So, don't leave them to discharge all the way in the winter, that was dumb.

Mistake #2. I didn't have a fire extinguisher immediately next to the batteries. I didn't think that fire was a concern, but that was, in hindsight, fuckin dumb. Always have a fire extinguisher right next to your electronics, one rated for electronics fires.

Mistake #3. The battery box was right next to the inverter. This was the biggest mistake I think.

Remember when I said that the LFP produces flammable gas when they fail and offgas? Right, well having the battery next to an inverter that has large contactors within it is fuckin stupid. What I think happened is that at some point over the past few days/weeks, the battery failed and started to offgas. There's not a ton of ventilation in that area, so I assume this flammable gas was building up. When I clicked on the inverter, it didn't blow up immediately, but what I would bet happened is that one of the contactors switched on to try to charge the battery, and the tiny arc from that (inside the inverter case) was enough to ignite the flammable gas from the LFP. This flame front traveled up into the battery that had failed and caused it to blow up, blowing apart the plywood battery box.

Mistake #4. The flame at first was so small that it took me 10 seconds or so to realize it was on fire, but between that time and the time it took me to find a fucking extinguisher / tool, the plywood lit on fire. The plywood fire is what caused most of the soot and scorching.

So, fuck. What are we going to do about it, and what should I take away from this?

First of all, don't put your LFP batteries in wooden boxes.

Second, keep your LFP batteries away from ignition sources.

Third, keep electronics rated extinguishers next to your batteries, no matter the chemistry. Lithium rated extinguishers for lithium.




Wanted to share my experience. I'm going to have a rethink of my layout to deal with these new problems. I'm a bit rattled, but thankfully I was there when this happened, instead of my camper burning to the ground for me.

Be safe out there.

Thanks for sharing the fails along with the wins.
I'll have to rethink my battery setup. it's currently inside the compartment with all the other high arcing shit like yours but at least they batteries are retail packaged group 31's not individual cells.

Will the M+ survive?
 
Thanks for sharing the fails along with the wins.
I'll have to rethink my battery setup. it's currently inside the compartment with all the other high arcing shit like yours but at least they batteries are retail packaged group 31's not individual cells.

Will the M+ survive?

I think the retail packaged group ones are probably safer in a failure scenario, but it's worth an email to them to see what happens if a cell inside does fail. Does the battery case have a vent, or will the gas just pop a seam in the group 31 case, or what. When my cell ignited it literally blew apart the 3/4" 7 ply birch box it was in, so there's a good amount of potential concussive force. going on there.

I expect the M+ will survive. The fire came out right at the metal case face (not underneath), and there's a lot of air in there. Doesn't appear to be a short situation, and the wires underneath aren't scorched, so yeah, I'm hopeful. I'll see if I can get a new case front to replace the scorched one.
 
Yikes!!! Glad it wasn't worse.

Cold and LFP is why I kind of stayed away, as I usually use my truck in sub freezing.....
 
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