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The Central Backbone Torque Tube System Of Tatra.

FelixstoweF.2 said:
Considering you as a source... people should ask themselves why are you even here. Where is your big 4x4 Rig? Or is your sole purpose here to disrupt this message board with your crap?
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I own 4 - 4wheelers, a dirt bike and mtn bikes.

I owned a 48 power wagon, 81 Toyota sr5, 90 jeep ,70 Dodge ,
I four wheeled all over Montana, Colorado, Utah, New Mexico.

But I’m no buggy,/ crawler build guru like some of these guys are so I probably wouldn’t be telling them how to do it.
 
FelixstoweF.2 said:
No, I understand the construction they use. And you're right they minimize weight. But this would allow you to minimize the weight as well. And I think benefits of having independent suspension and drive train that completely linear are even more important if the weights are comparable.
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other than a roll cage and shock mounts, what do you think a rockcrawler chassis does?
 
Moved this.

Check out some of the other threads in the other forums, please. They're about technology and building something with it.

So, hey, I am building this, using a torque tube, like used on vehicles like a Unimog, a 928S, a Corvette, etc. Goes in the tech forums.

Hey, I think this is cool. Hey, it's not. Hey you're a shit brick. Goes in Chit Chat.
 
FelixstoweF.2 said:
It's my fucking thread dickhead and yes I understand the construction necessary. If anyone is interjecting yourself it is you.
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Also, it's not your thread when you post here.

It's "ours".

The point to posting here is sharing of ideas, collaboration with your peers, applicable technology to adapt, etc on things we're building.

You originally posted this in Gen4x4. It's sort of the Ph.D forum of Rockcrawling and Rockbouncing. Folks there have 20+ years designing, adapting and creating outstanding multi-purpose rigs. They're the Fabrication Gods of the world.

For instance, you're not aware, but we used Mog axles in the early Rock crawling phases... MB Unimogs are torque tube axles. We found they didn't work well and converted them to standard drivelines/suspensions. I have some 416 axles here, still, That was 20 + years ago. Your angle extrapolation is incorrect. They were incredibly expensive, could not keep tires on the ground when crossed up and didn't have the chassis flex that MB designed into them. Great for handling a lot of heavy cargo, with minimal wheel travel, but not to be for Gen 4x4 purposes as built/designed.

If you were to post your torque tube build into say the MB forum, because you were building a Unimog like Austin is, to be a general run about, it would make sense. If you were to build a Tatra for hauling, say like the one in the "other builds" section, it would make sense or even in the Tow Rigs section, that too.

Savvy?
 
Grendel said:
Also, it's not your thread when you post here.

It's "ours".

The point to posting here is sharing of ideas, collaboration with your peers, applicable technology to adapt, etc on things we're building.

You originally posted this in Gen4x4. It's sort of the Ph.D forum of Rockcrawling and Rockbouncing. Folks there have 20+ years designing, adapting and creating outstanding multi-purpose rigs. They're the Fabrication Gods of the world.

For instance, you're not aware, but we used Mog axles in the early Rock crawling phases... MB Unimogs are torque tube axles. We found they didn't work well and converted them to standard drivelines/suspensions. I have some 416 axles here, still, That was 20 + years ago. Your angle extrapolation is incorrect. They were incredibly expensive, could not keep tires on the ground when crossed up and didn't have the chassis flex that MB designed into them. Great for handling a lot of heavy cargo, with minimal wheel travel, but not to be for Gen 4x4 purposes as built/designed.

If you were to post your torque tube build into say the MB forum, because you were building a Unimog like Austin is, to be a general run about, it would make sense. If you were to build a Tatra for hauling, say like the one in the "other builds" section, it would make sense or even in the Tow Rigs section, that too.

Savvy?
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Actually, your Terms of Service doesn't say you have ownership only a limited license actually to this content. But more interestingly that you claiming that this thread isn't about design concepts. Which it clearly is. That takes nothing away from your previous experience. It just says that hey perhaps we can discuss in a civil manner this type of arrangement. Which is what I'm saying.

So, first off I agree the Mercedes Benz Unimog's torque tube design is not the solution. But, the MB Unimog system is not a central backbone system like the Tatra stystem and it still requires a frame to absorbed the torsional stresses of the axle movements. Instead I'm proposing a system where the the entire torsional stress and loads of the vehicle are taken up by the central backbone design. Like the Tatra design does. Probably it would be more difficult to construct swinging half shaft axles with enough articulation for Rock Crawling-- instead you might want to approach this articulation problem with an A arm design and three or four link suspension setup that links back to the central back bone. You can make it with custom made differential housing like the Walter Design built into the back bone tube itself. Then using CV joints you could create system with three differentials in the design using torque proportioning and automatic locking systems you could have an analog version of variable traction control that is always compensating more power to the wheels that grip then those that are slipping. I think that would be beneficial to have the wheels always with better contact to the surface and the traction always biased to the wheels that are gripping.
 

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I always liked the Tratra system (they used them in their cars), but I wondered how it did given that it didn't compensate for camber. Many cars of that era did the same (Mercedes, VW...), long before the Corvair. This is a rear mounted 8 cylinder air cooled boxer engine.

tatra_77_drivetrain.jpg
 
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Mikel said:
I always like the Tratra system (they used them in their cars), but I wondered how it did given that it didn't compensate for camber. Many cars of that era did the same (Mercedes, VW...), long before the Corvair. This is a rear mounted 8 cylinder air cooled boxer engine.

tatra_77_drivetrain.jpg
Click to expand...
It doesn't seem to effect it too badly since the vehicles like there trucks only go about 85-106kph
 
Hydromaster said:
I own 4 - 4wheelers, a dirt bike and mtn bikes.

I owned a 48 power wagon, 81 Toyota sr5, 90 jeep ,70 Dodge ,
I four wheeled all over Montana, Colorado, Utah, New Mexico.

But I’m no buggy,/ crawler build guru like some of these guys are so I probably wouldn’t be telling them how to do it.
Click to expand...

So, quit humping my leg and post about that stuff.
 
Mikel said:
I always like the Tratra system (they used them in their cars), but I wondered how it did given that it didn't compensate for camber. Many cars of that era did the same (Mercedes, VW...), long before the Corvair. This is a rear mounted 8 cylinder air cooled boxer engine.

tatra_77_drivetrain.jpg
Click to expand...

They made a super car at one point. I don't know it if used the swinging half shafts or not.
 
Mikel said:
I always like the Tratra system (they used them in their cars), but I wondered how it did given that it didn't compensate for camber.
Click to expand...
Probably just fine. Camber doesn't really matter at full droop when you have no traction. And you want positive at full bump so.....
 
FelixstoweF.2 said:
Actually, your Terms of Service doesn't say you have ownership only a limited license actually to this content. But more interestingly that you claiming that this thread isn't about design concepts. Which it clearly is. That takes nothing away from your previous experience. It just says that hey perhaps we can discuss in a civil manner this type of arrangement. Which is what I'm saying.

So, first off I agree the Mercedes Benz Unimog's torque tube design is not the solution. But, the MB Unimog system is not a central backbone system like the Tatra stystem and it still requires a frame to absorbed the torsional stresses of the axle movements. Instead I'm proposing a system where the the entire torsional stress and loads of the vehicle are taken up by the central backbone design. Like the Tatra design does. Probably it would be more difficult to construct swinging half shaft axles with enough articulation for Rock Crawling-- instead you might want to approach this articulation problem with an A arm design and three or four link suspension setup that links back to the central back bone. You can make it with custom made differential housing like the Walter Design built into the back bone tube itself. Then using CV joints you could create system with three differentials in the design using torque proportioning and automatic locking systems you could have an analog version of variable traction control that is always compensating more power to the wheels that grip then those that are slipping. I think that would be beneficial to have the wheels always with better contact to the surface and the traction always biased to the wheels that are gripping.
Click to expand...
I am not lawyering here. You're not building something, you're new here. Read a bit.

"Ours" meant the entire community's

Thread's moved, we can all post in it.
 
Grendel said:
I am not lawyering here. You're not building something, you're new here. Read a bit.

"Ours" meant the entire community's

Thread's moved, we can all post in it.
Click to expand...

You surmise that I'm not building something.

Okay, I'm cool with the communal idea of ownership.

General4x4 tends to me to mean a wide open topic where it would seem that we post about anything that has to do with widespread 4x4 trucks and their operation. That's how interrupted it. I would think that a sub forum for rock crawling would be called " Rockcrawling". I guess I was wrong.
 
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FelixstoweF.2 said:
So, quit humping my leg and post about that stuff.
Click to expand...
I thought,, I know, that’s a tough concept for you, but bear with me. I thought I would read more than try to convince everybody I’m the smartest guy in the room like you continually do.

If there’s something I know a lot about I’ll probably jump in, if there’s something I want to chitchat or a question. Yeah, Il hop in.
I’m Just starting to know the community, instead of trying to do what it is you do..

You do remind me of the old saying,
if you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.

PS
you might be building a Lego set……
 
Hydromaster said:
I thought,, I know, that’s a tough concept for you, but bear with me. I thought I would read more than try to convince everybody I’m the smartest guy in the room like you continually do.

If there’s something I know a lot about I’ll probably jump in, if there’s something I want to chitchat or a question. Yeah, Il hop in.
I’m Just starting to know the community, instead of trying to do what it is you do..

You do remind me of the old saying,
if you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.

PS you might be building a Lego set but you’re not building a truck
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Talking ideas?
 
FelixstoweF.2 said:
That's how interrupted it... I guess I was wrong.
Click to expand...
You're correct: You interrupted it (Freudian typo :flipoff2: ) and you were wrong.

Gen 4x4 means that it's not one particular manufacturer, IE Tatra. As you were arguing about, predominately tube chassis builds. But some mixed builds or bibles, like the electric parking brake, Ford SD 60's for various builds, etc.

Then there are the manufacturer's forums.

Tatra would be in other builds.

Adding trusses to your ARB's in your M series? Border line, but since no shit shat is happening, it's riding.

As for what I surmise? You didn't start out a build thread, in this thread.

"Hey, I am buildiing this Tatra for rock crawling, etc."
 
Grendel said:
You're correct: You interrupted it (Freudian typo :flipoff2: ) and you were wrong. No, just a poor typer and speller and didn't notice the error.

Gen 4x4 means that it's not one particular manufacturer, IE Tatra. As you were arguing about, predominately tube chassis builds. But some mixed builds or bibles, like the electric parking brake, Ford SD 60's for various builds, etc.

Then there are the manufacturer's forums.

Tatra would be in other builds.

Adding trusses to your ARB's in your M series? Border line, but since no shit shat is happening, it's riding.

As for what I surmise? You didn't start out a build thread, in this thread.

"Hey, I am buildiing this Tatra for rock crawling, etc."
Click to expand...

I'm not building a Tatra for Rock Crawling-- But, I figured since you guys like rock crawling that would be interesting way to talk about it. Personally, I would rather talk about Truck Trail type stuff but I figured that would get far less traction.

And adding trusses to my axles in my truck does sound general build thing to me. I am also looking into adding CTIS to the truck and running it on A3 rims with 14.5 R20's or 395R20's which ever I can get a good deal on. I have an LDS fuel pump I might install too.
 
FelixstoweF.2 said:
I'm not building a Tatra for Rock Crawling-- But, I figured since you guys like rock crawling that would be interesting way to talk about it. Personally, I would rather talk about Truck Trail type stuff but I figured that would get far less traction.

And adding trusses to my axles in my truck does sound general build thing to me. I am also looking into adding CTIS to the truck and running it on A3 rims with 14.5 R20's or 395R20's which ever I can get a good deal on. I have an LDS fuel pump I might install too.
Click to expand...
that's why it belongs in Chit Chat, because you just want to talk about it and BS about it.

That's fine, that's what general chit chat is for.
 
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