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The 4xFordYota Franken-Fine Axles!

Bebop said:
:laughing:How much did it turn ?
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I don't know, never put an angle finder on it. It was an 8" ram on the stock knuckle tie rod hole. It would steer as sharp as a stock D60. Obviously room for improvement, but it wasn't limited down.

But Obviously it's not a rock bouncer, so it's junk. Everyone needs to be 8' wide and use 14 bolts. :homer:
 
43" of flex front and rear with sway bar connected. Nothing is binding. About 5.5" of up travel in the front. Everything should be ready to be picked up Monday. I'll get comparison measurements of before and after one I get it to my warehouse with the forklift.

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Still using the stock gas tank? 3 link rear with panhard?

Did you move the rear axle back any? I've been considering that on mine. Seems like a good way to not have to cut into the door and increase the rear departure angle some, but I'm just on 35s.
 
Ghetto Fab. said:
Still using the stock gas tank? 3 link rear with panhard?

Did you move the rear axle back any? I've been considering that on mine. Seems like a good way to not have to cut into the door and increase the rear departure angle some, but I'm just on 35s.
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Yup. Still have the stock tank... trying to keep it street legal... we will see how Long that lasts. The rear axle is moved backwards roughly 1.5" from the stock location. Had to trim all the way up to the fuel door, and still might need another .5" or so off of that too... or limit the bump.

Got all the main electrical systems up and running yesterday... Starter, engine, welder, cooling. Just gotta wire up the lockers and amplifier, install drive shafts, and bleed the steering and he will be all set for rubithon this week! Leaving this evening haha.

Got a Dakota lithium 135ah 1000cca lithium battery to power everything. It is the same size as a group24 (red topish), half the weight of a red top, and 4x the usable power. And it's self heating so should be good down to negative 20deg f. No more dual batteries!
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Some updated numbers...

Belly height is 23.5"
Fr width is 87.25"
R width is 89.25"
Wb is 107.5"

I'll get more with a complete before/after comparison next week after I get back from rubithon

Interesting discussion on width vs tire size ratio... as soon as I got it back, I felt like the tires looked tiny (40x13.50x17) and that 42s or 44s are going to be in order...

Then read through all the ratio talk... currently sitting at 2.21 ish. 44s would put me at 2.01.

Rubicon run starting tonight through Sunday. Will let you guys know how it goes. Property line, big sluice, nobies rock, and Cadillac are a couple of places I'm concerned about squeezing through.

Also concerned about making it into Barrett now :(
 
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I hate that rear shock mounting, I don't know why that has become common. Why put $1k+ ea shocks way down in harms way?


I've been shopping 42+ tires. Not many options at all. Probably have to jump to 20s if you don't want to run swampers.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
I hate that rear shock mounting, I don't know why that has become common. Why put $1k+ ea shocks way down in harms way?
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I don't like it either, but it fits without cutting into the body. Also jeeps are this way, so I think its accepted as ok now.

I'm surprised the rear track bar has such angle on it at ride height. Seems like a lot.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
I hate that rear shock mounting, I don't know why that has become common. Why put $1k+ ea shocks way down in harms way?


I've been shopping 42+ tires. Not many options at all. Probably have to jump to 20s if you don't want to run swampers.
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packaging. My JK was the same way. NBD.
 
There's ways around it, just because others do it, doesn't mean it's good. :laughing:

Go through the floor, which can be done cleanly

Cantilever, kinda a pain

The route I did on my father in laws jeep was trailing arms with 12" shocks netting over 16" of travel. Lots of people think they're only for giant travel numbers, but for our goals it worked great.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
There's ways around it, just because others do it, doesn't mean it's good. :laughing:

Go through the floor, which can be done cleanly

Cantilever, kinda a pain

The route I did on my father in laws jeep was trailing arms with 12" shocks netting over 16" of travel. Lots of people think they're only for giant travel numbers, but for our goals it worked great.
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and just because you don't do it doesn't mean it's bad.
 
Bebop said:
You're going to argue that shit sticking under the axle housings is a smart idea ?
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How many builds have stuff under the axle centerline? links or hydro assist or anything else?

I'm saying people are making a much bigger deal about it than necessary. If it works for the OP, so be it. People have been doing it for decades across many different automotive sports.


So BFD.
 
rockota said:
How many builds have stuff under the axle centerline? links or hydro assist or anything else?

I'm saying people are making a much bigger deal about it than necessary. If it works for the OP, so be it. People have been doing it for decades across many different automotive sports.


So BFD.
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If a lot of people do something dumb, does it make it good ?
 
op is running mile marker hubs. Do you think he really has thought any of this out?

I don’t particularly care for 4wheel underground kits. They move the lower links above the center line of the front housing. The upper 3 link to me looks weak and ready to tear off unless it’s beefed up some.

Not on this build but the 4wu 4 link kit rear truss is leveraged way out and not incorporated in to the diff. Great way to spin tubs or rip the truss off.

But Toyota folks have been Lego piecing together straight axle swaps that are less than ideal for couple of decades now. Links shouldn’t be any different.

Btw I’m no link expert but I don’t see anyone doing their link suspensions the way 4wu does it.
 
I'm not gonna lie, I'd trash those rear shocks first trip in the rocks. I know people do it all the time, I don't really care, for ME that wouldn't work.


However, I'd rock it. We'll see how it works out for you long term. It's not my car and there are certainly things I'd have done different, Have fun on the Rubicon:smokin:
 
rockota said:
and just because you don't do it doesn't mean it's bad.
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Its a huge comprise that doesn't need to be made imo. Why spend all the money for the " best" suspension just to hang the most expensive and fragile part of it way down where they can get damaged, or at the minimum hang you up constantly?

If you don't want to take a few steps to make the shocks fit, then just stick with coils or leafs.
 
Rangerrod said:
op is running mile marker hubs. Do you think he really has thought any of this out?
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:lmao:

Rangerrod said:
I don’t particularly care for 4wheel underground kits. They move the lower links above the center line of the front housing.
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Mu buggy does too. On purpose obv.

Depends what you're looking for in suspension design.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Why spend all the money for the " best" suspension just to hang the most expensive and fragile part of it way down where they can get damaged, or at the minimum hang you up constantly?
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they only get damaged if you have back up, so dont suck at driving :flipoff2: the shock hanging down doesnt seem to be holding up the stock bronco guys from getting after it at KOH.

its all a compromised, cantilever adds complexity and takes up a TON of space. you need space and a way to support the upper shock mount if you go trailing arm. in the case of the OP at minimum would put it at the rear door handle.

4WU kits are designed for the trail wheeler who doesnt want holes in the cab. is it for me? not really because i like to complicate things. does it take the guess work out of adding links to your rig for someone who doesnt have the confidence in designing and building a link system from scratch? yep.
 
mobil1syn said:
they only get damaged if you have back up, so dont suck at driving :flipoff2: the shock hanging down doesnt seem to be holding up the stock bronco guys from getting after it at KOH.
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Thier hands are tied by class rules, I'm sure they would all choose a different option if they could.

mobil1syn said:
its all a compromised, cantilever adds complexity and takes up a TON of space. you need space and a way to support the upper shock mount if you go trailing arm. in the case of the OP at minimum would put it at the rear door handle.
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I agree on cantilever, my buddies jk has c/o and bypasses in cantilever and it's nicely tucked out of the way, but it's very complex.

You may have a point on where the shock with trailing arms would end up on this rig. I'd probably just opt to go through the fender wells and box it back in. It's really not as complex as some people believe.

mobil1syn said:
4WU kits are designed for the trail wheeler who doesnt want holes in the cab. is it for me? not really because i like to complicate things. does it take the guess work out of adding links to your rig for someone who doesnt have the confidence in designing and building a link system from scratch? yep.
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I think 4wu is the best link kit for toyotas by far. Obviously when you have a kit, there is always room for improvements for one person's specific use, bit I think they do a really good job for what it is
 
More updates! Bled the steering and got the drive shafts finished (a day late). Went up to Tahoma and dropped in through caddy.

Getting all 45 degrees of steering. Nothing is binding on the suspension.

Spent yesterday playing around between buck and springs. There are a lot of positives that I'm enjoying. Very few negatives.

I will say though... I wasn't 100% certain the axles were going to work haha. But they are working out great... minus the loss in ground clearance with the bigger diffs and rear shock mounts
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I saw tyler and his rig on the rubicon this weekend. The fab work is TOP notch. It’s beautiful.

I applaud you for building what you want, regardless of the hate you may have gotten. I doubt you will ever break the axles.

I understand why 4WU does what they do. Lower links super high up on the axle tubes, helps with roll axis and ride quality, but puts a fuck load of stress on the upper so he makes the upper super tall to give it more separation to lessen load but at the end of the day you still have a ton of leverage on the upper. I’d personally be scared to do it on my rig because it weighs a lot, has 4 times the horsepower a Toyota has, and deep gearing but I understand that lighter rigs and gutless engines probably make it live.

I’m in the camp of rear 3 link with factory tank. I see the benefit for a street driven rig, especially in CA where you deal with smog bullshit. It’s gotta be extra strong though. Strength is what worries me so if it’s strong I’m sure it will work out well.

Anyways, glad it’s back Tyler! Great to see you and the rig.

One last thing, on the rear coilovers, if you find your constantly hanging up on them you can probably outboard them, your so much wider then any axle that kit was designed for so you can probably put them on the outside of the frame and still not hit them when flexing out. That can let you put them higher (since it’s past the tub) which can let you mount them higher on the tubes or, if you leave them the same height atleast the mounts are closer to the tire and less likely to hang up. Enjoy it for now, if it’s an issue in the future you can do some redo’s.
 
06h3 said:
I saw tyler and his rig on the rubicon this weekend. The fab work is TOP notch. It’s beautiful.

I applaud you for building what you want, regardless of the hate you may have gotten. I doubt you will ever break the axles.

I understand why 4WU does what they do. Lower links super high up on the axle tubes, helps with roll axis and ride quality, but puts a fuck load of stress on the upper so he makes the upper super tall to give it more separation to lessen load but at the end of the day you still have a ton of leverage on the upper. I’d personally be scared to do it on my rig because it weighs a lot, has 4 times the horsepower a Toyota has, and deep gearing but I understand that lighter rigs and gutless engines probably make it live.

I’m in the camp of rear 3 link with factory tank. I see the benefit for a street driven rig, especially in CA where you deal with smog bullshit. It’s gotta be extra strong though. Strength is what worries me so if it’s strong I’m sure it will work out well.

Anyways, glad it’s back Tyler! Great to see you and the rig.

One last thing, on the rear coilovers, if you find your constantly hanging up on them you can probably outboard them, your so much wider then any axle that kit was designed for so you can probably put them on the outside of the frame and still not hit them when flexing out. That can let you put them higher (since it’s past the tub) which can let you mount them higher on the tubes or, if you leave them the same height atleast the mounts are closer to the tire and less likely to hang up. Enjoy it for now, if it’s an issue in the future you can do some redo’s.
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Ya, the lower links are high on the axle... but I will say, the roll center and anti squat/dive characteristics are fuckign great on this rig. I need to do a tipping point test and see how far I can go off camber before it rolls... It is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYY more range than before. The upper link bracket on the front axle is BEEFY though... so it is currently sitting at about 8.5" separation, with a beefed up boxed and gussetted bracket fully welded onto the top of the axle. So, i dont think I will have any issues with it with my driving style.
 
I don't see why everyone hates on the links being mounted above the axle. We're rock crawling after all.....used to be really common 15 years ago.

4wu puts a ton of time into making their shit work. If it was weak, they would have found out by now. Maybe not ideal for a 800hp u4, but we don't all need to build to those standards.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
I don't see why everyone hates on the links being mounted above the axle. We're rock crawling after all.....used to be really common 15 years ago.

4wu puts a ton of time into making their shit work. If it was weak, they would have found out by now. Maybe not ideal for a 800hp u4, but we don't all need to build to those standards.
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You spent the entire thread bitching about the 4wu design and now you’re having a wet dream over it?
 
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