Teach me PA Systems - Conference Room, Community Center?

[Chevy_man]

That's a line mixer and just one mic input...would it work? sorta...but is it ideal? no.

Start looking used and I'm sure you could find better bang for your buck. Brand names like Allen & Heath, Yamaha, Soundcraft, Mackie, even Behringer...same with speakers, used JBL, Yamaha, QSC, RCF, and so forth. Find powered speakers and then you don't have to worry as much about things like matching amps or limiting or whatnot. Skip the in ceiling speakers, they won't produce any bass at all and will just rattle and I've never heard a really nice sounding in ceiling system. A couple of 8" or 10" 2 ways wall mounted at one end (where the screen would be) will sound better and cover just fine.

Something cheap, I'd do a couple Yamaha DBR10's and a Behringer Flow 8 mixer...throw in a channel or two of Shure BLX or Sennheiser XSW and you're doing ok. Add in a few cables and wall mounts and whatnot and you'll be sitting around $2000 for something completely respectable:

Hate to break it to you, but you can get good in-walls... They are far beyond his price range.

I didn't believe it until I heard them. But the ones I put in my ceiling were $3k per, and the back box and grille were extra.
It's great to work in 10 million dollar homes and be given trash to deal with when new stuff comes out...

 

[SomeGuy]

Hate to break it to you, but you can get good in-walls... They are far beyond his price range.

I didn't believe it until I heard them. But the ones I put in my ceiling were $3k per, and the back box and grille were extra.
It's great to work in 10 million dollar homes and be given trash to deal with when new stuff comes out...

I can believe that, but there's a big difference between using in ceiling speakers in your living room at home versus trying to fill a large noisy space. For basic public address at moderate volumes, when properly installed, and not junky amazon ones, ceiling speakers can be ok....but they're miles from what even an entry level PA speaker can do.

 

[Chevy_man]

I can believe that, but there's a big difference between using in ceiling speakers in your living room at home versus trying to fill a large noisy space. For basic public address at moderate volumes, when properly installed, and not junky amazon ones, ceiling speakers can be ok....but they're miles from what even an entry level PA speaker can do.

Not saying that you can't get it done way cheaper with a good PA.


But if you have 100k to burn you can have a system that you don't see that still sounds amazing.

 

[SomeGuy]

Not saying that you can't get it done way cheaper with a good PA.


But if you have 100k to burn you can have a system that you don't see that still sounds amazing.

Still relatively speaking, $100k of normal speakers will still beat out $100k of ceiling ones...but I will say, would be nice to be able to blow $100k on speakers whatever the type

 

[78bronco460]

With some creative work you could use a karaoke machine and make something to do multimedia presentations and pa:

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/vocopro-wifi-rocker-karaoke-system-black/6524244.p?skuId=6524244

 

[Lee]

I started looking at 70V speakers when I first started this since most of the cheaper ceiling speakers I found were 70V, as I didn't know anything about them or the "commercial" amps and speakers. Then I learned that's what most schools, hospitals, and department stores use. That's what made me think I don't want them, I've never heard anyone not sound like a Peanuts' adult when talking over one of those systems.

I'll hear y'all out, but I'm fairly confident the folks I'm doing this for will be more than satisfied with those "junky Amazon" 8" 3 way speakers, they seem to have decent reviews that aren't just bots. I went down the Parts Express rabbit hole, attempting to piecemeal a DIY speaker, I've built a few sub boxes and speaker cabinets in my day, but by the time you've got all the components, it's a decent bit more than those Amazon speakers, and you've got another project instead of just a speaker to install in a hole.

That said, I chatted with the board's president yesterday, wall mounted speakers aren't out of the question, as long as they're up high and "tasteful" looking. The partition wall doors that doubles the thickness and haven't been closed in over 20 years can be removed, there's just never been a reason to remove them.

I think some of y'all are too focused on the video stuff. The projector is probably still years down the line, especially with the roof, ceiling, and I found out yesterday the ball fields are getting a new bathroom. There's not going to be money for a LCD projector, screen, and surround system short of a generous benefactor donating the stuff. All we need now is a decent PA system, if we could hook a phone or Bluetooth receiver to it that would be great. I had imagined the same speakers could be part of a theater surround system, Atmos overhead speakers or the like, that supplement additional speakers for the front and center speakers, again that's a down the road project, phase 2 or 3 or eleventy of the initial PA system project.

 

[Roc Doc]

I started looking at 70V speakers when I first started this since most of the cheaper ceiling speakers I found were 70V, as I didn't know anything about them or the "commercial" amps and speakers. Then I learned that's what most schools, hospitals, and department stores use. That's what made me think I don't want them, I've never heard anyone not sound like a Peanuts' adult when talking over one of those systems.

That bad audio is not the fault of the 70v system it's shitty 70v speakers. I did an install in a restaurant re-model with 12" Dual Concentric Tannoy ceiling speakers, and when they'd turn it into a dance club at 10pm, we'd wheel in some subs near the dance floor so they'd get some thump.

As far as surface mount go, there are some compact line array speakers from Bose, Martin, JBL, etc. Have used the JBL's in a courtroom to good effect. But any such solution is way out of your price range. I've seen churches in the hood that bought shitty PA like Carvin, and they usually end up blowing up the drivers. Buy once and all that.

 

[45acp]

Get a used 31 band eq, amp/ mixer of your choice, and 40 of these-

BUYOUT EAS10P241JD3 4" Extended-Range Speaker 4 Ohm

EAS10P241JD3 4" Extended-Range Speaker 4 OhmThe 10P241JC3 4" Extended-Range Speaker utilizes a one-piece paper cone and surround, ferrite magnet and 4 ohm impedance. A CCA voice coil and paper former allow for higher than average sensitivity and a simple frame design helps simple rear-mount...

www.parts-express.com

Build skinny tower 8ft tall line arrays with 20 drivers in each side. Set them on the stage near the 34' wall and enjoy equal clear volume all over the room.

 

[45acp]

Oh hey, I got something you might could use. New in box, never hooked up.

Do some searching and see if it'll work for what you want. I'll sell it cheap.

 

[45acp]

Gotta build something to mount it in/

 

[Lee]

45acp that'd be cool in a portable system. Show up on the street corner with a stack of Milwaukee batteries and a power bank, then start proselytizing electric fence safety. An upside down cow on fire sounds like hellfire and brimstone to me.

 

[Lee]

So how about 8 bookshelf/satellite speakers up high, near the ceiling on the wall, kick them down at an angle? There's a bunch of used 40-100W 8 Ohm JBL, Bose, KLH, Polk, Boston Acoustic, etc. for about what I'd spend on those Amazon ceiling speakers. Bose 141s are surprisingly affordable second hand, I guess the word finally got out about Bose? If the folks using them see they're Bose, they'll maybe think they sound good even if they're not that great, just because they say Bose on the grill? Maybe I just need some Bose emblems for those ceiling speakers?


So I've been trying to learn about mixers. Sticking with some of the name brand stuff suggested in this thread. Shure SCM800 can be had pretty cheap second hand. It's line output only though, no XLR or 1/4" jack. Additionally they expect you to buy an additional $$$ XLR panel just to have XLR hook-ups for it, as it's line-in only for the mics. I can just wire an XLR or 1/4" plug to a 3 pin block connector and stick it in the mic input right? I thought all of those 1/4" plugs on the back were for mics too at first, but the manual says they're for, "SEND/RECEIVE ¼-inch Insert Jacks:15. Post-fader, post-EQ insert point to add external compressor/limiter, graphic or parametric EQ, or other signal processors." So, I assumed I can't just plug the microphone in one and move on with life?

So if I go with something like that, it's also Line out for the audio out too. If I went with the pair of amps like mentioned in version 5 or 6 of Operation Lee Thinking he Knows More Than he Really Does About PA Systems. Can I just use a Y out of the mixer and into the 2 amps? Basically wire a pair of 1/4" male plugs to the line out of the mixer and stick a 1/4" plug into each amps' balanced connection?

 

[45acp]

45acp that'd be cool in a portable system. Show up on the street corner with a stack of Milwaukee batteries and a power bank, then start proselytizing electric fence safety. An upside down cow on fire sounds like hellfire and brimstone to me.

It was going in home made stage monitors, one powered and one slave. Had a new set of eminence 10' and some used Klipsch horns and crossovers. Wound up using speakers for something else and never used the amp. It's 4ohm stable and about 400 watts at that.


This is going to be 100% opinion/preference, but imho bookshelves hanging 6" off the ceiling are going to sound considerably better than in ceiling speakers. Of course big $$$ can offset poor design, but talking budget gear... as bad as in-walls sound, in-ceilings are even worse. Like way worse. Having an enclosure off the ceiling makes a pretty big difference in "this sounds ok I guess" vs "this sounds like the teacher on Charlie Brown".

 

[Roc Doc]

So how about 8 bookshelf/satellite speakers up high, near the ceiling on the wall, kick them down at an angle? There's a bunch of used 40-100W 8 Ohm JBL, Bose, KLH, Polk, Boston Acoustic, etc. for about what I'd spend on those Amazon ceiling speakers. Bose 141s are surprisingly affordable second hand, I guess the word finally got out about Bose? If the folks using them see they're Bose, they'll maybe think they sound good even if they're not that great, just because they say Bose on the grill? Maybe I just need some Bose emblems for those ceiling speakers?


So I've been trying to learn about mixers. Sticking with some of the name brand stuff suggested in this thread. Shure SCM800 can be had pretty cheap second hand. It's line output only though, no XLR or 1/4" jack. Additionally they expect you to buy an additional $$$ XLR panel just to have XLR hook-ups for it, as it's line-in only for the mics. I can just wire an XLR or 1/4" plug to a 3 pin block connector and stick it in the mic input right? I thought all of those 1/4" plugs on the back were for mics too at first, but the manual says they're for, "SEND/RECEIVE ¼-inch Insert Jacks:15. Post-fader, post-EQ insert point to add external compressor/limiter, graphic or parametric EQ, or other signal processors." So, I assumed I can't just plug the microphone in one and move on with life?

So if I go with something like that, it's also Line out for the audio out too. If I went with the pair of amps like mentioned in version 5 or 6 of Operation Lee Thinking he Knows More Than he Really Does About PA Systems. Can I just use a Y out of the mixer and into the 2 amps? Basically wire a pair of 1/4" male plugs to the line out of the mixer and stick a 1/4" plug into each amps' balanced connection?

First of all, "line out" refers to the level of he signal in db +4 for the pro level equipment. The terminal blocks on that Shure mixer allow for permanent installs without the need to terminate the cable in 1/4" TRS or XLR plugs. That is a good mixer, but has very limited EQ, and only a single output, again it's designed for a permanent install. The 1/4" jacks are insert points so you could use a compressor or limiter or such, but I've never seen them used in an actual install.

 

[SomeGuy]

So how about 8 bookshelf/satellite speakers up high, near the ceiling on the wall, kick them down at an angle? There's a bunch of used 40-100W 8 Ohm JBL, Bose, KLH, Polk, Boston Acoustic, etc. for about what I'd spend on those Amazon ceiling speakers. Bose 141s are surprisingly affordable second hand, I guess the word finally got out about Bose? If the folks using them see they're Bose, they'll maybe think they sound good even if they're not that great, just because they say Bose on the grill? Maybe I just need some Bose emblems for those ceiling speakers?


So I've been trying to learn about mixers. Sticking with some of the name brand stuff suggested in this thread. Shure SCM800 can be had pretty cheap second hand. It's line output only though, no XLR or 1/4" jack. Additionally they expect you to buy an additional $$$ XLR panel just to have XLR hook-ups for it, as it's line-in only for the mics. I can just wire an XLR or 1/4" plug to a 3 pin block connector and stick it in the mic input right? I thought all of those 1/4" plugs on the back were for mics too at first, but the manual says they're for, "SEND/RECEIVE ¼-inch Insert Jacks:15. Post-fader, post-EQ insert point to add external compressor/limiter, graphic or parametric EQ, or other signal processors." So, I assumed I can't just plug the microphone in one and move on with life?

So if I go with something like that, it's also Line out for the audio out too. If I went with the pair of amps like mentioned in version 5 or 6 of Operation Lee Thinking he Knows More Than he Really Does About PA Systems. Can I just use a Y out of the mixer and into the 2 amps? Basically wire a pair of 1/4" male plugs to the line out of the mixer and stick a 1/4" plug into each amps' balanced connection?

For the price of an SCM800 you can just do the Behringer/Yamaha setup I suggested earlier.

Roc Doc covered what the connections were all about on that unit.

 

[Lee]

For the price of an SCM800 you can just do the Behringer/Yamaha setup I suggested earlier.

Roc Doc covered what the connections were all about on that unit.

It's $38 with free shipping, functional, government and/or corporate surplus.

 

[Roc Doc]

Here ya go, add a couple mics and you're in business.

Log into Facebook

 

[FlatLander]

$500 won't buy anything,

Avoid Rockville,

Not entirely relevant to the OP, but...

I picked up two Rockville RBG15S Powered PA Subs and two RPG10 Powered 2-way PA speakers for $500 from Craigslist. They'll make some noise. And it sounds good (or good enough for who it's for) unless really pushed. Though they just get used for music, indoor and outdoor. Recently added a cheap Harbinger (Guitar Center brand) LV8 mixer and it all does what it's supposed to, so another $100. More control would be nice, but I wanted to stay as compact as possible for transporting.

 

[SomeGuy]

Here ya go, add a couple mics and you're in business.

Log into Facebook

Oh dear god, those JRX series speakers sound like ass....lol

But also, way better option than the crap OP has been looking at.

It's $38 with free shipping, functional, government and/or corporate surplus.

$38? That's a steal...$1149 +tax for one new up here.

 

[Lee]

Here ya go, add a couple mics and you're in business.

Log into Facebook

I try not to be too judgemental, regardless of how they sound, I don't think those pass the "tasteful" threshold.

$38? That's a steal...$1149 +tax for one new up here.

So start with that? There's one left unless one of y'all have already found it and bought it.

I can't foresee ever needing more than 2 microphones, and usually just the one. They've only had one for all these years, any more will be a marked improvement.

 

[SomeGuy]

I try not to be too judgemental, regardless of how they sound, I don't think those pass the "tasteful" threshold.



So start with that? There's one left unless one of y'all have already found it and bought it.

I can't foresee ever needing more than 2 microphones, and usually just the one. They've only had one for all these years, any more will be a marked improvement.

Yes, just buy it, if you don't use it you can flip it for $100 easily and come out ahead.


I will say, that JBL JRX setup will get noisy enough for a room that size lol it's also not the ugliest speakers out there but damn they are harsh on the ears.

 

[87manche]

Ancient. Probably never gonna die.
Yours if it's worth shipping it. Take it out of the box I put it in to make it portable. I'm tired of tripping over it in the basement. I can hook it up and make sure it still works, but it was fine when it was put away. We used it for the pa at our annual fly in for a number of years.

 

[Lee]

Thanks for the offer 87manche, that is certainly better than what we've got. I think the hive or my delusions have convinced me to stick with separate components, i.e. mixer, amp(s), receiver(s)/source(s).

I realize I'm like a dog chasing a squirrel, but y'all have taught me a lot, or at least pointed me in the direction to learn things, I'm probably still going to do it "wrong," but I greatly appreciate the input and advice nonetheless!


As I learn things I think I want, I now think I want XLR inputs, I think we figured that out earlier and I forgot about it, but now I also want a remote volume knob that I can stick in the room with the speakers away from the media rack.

Is Rolls good, or good enough? Three XLRs, a handful of RCAs, 1/4" out, and it has a remote volume knob. These are running in the $40-50 range.

 

[gladman]

No thanks.

I'd rather have the hardwired speakers and just upgrade and replace components as time necessitates instead of being locked into JBL's or anyone else's ecosystem.

Those would have a much greater chance of mysteriously walking away too.

Yeah, if you have a bunch of shitbirds who will steal the equipment, best to buy or better, build, something kind of shitty that is hard to steal and not really worth it.

I've been gigging for 40 years in just about every place you could imagine and/or setting meeting rooms and presentation stuff... I no longer wire anything, wifi/wireless/bluetooth is reliable enough and it allows you to swap out whatever you want without being stuck with old cabling choices...

we put airtags in all our gear... but we have not had any stolen (yet)

 

[Roc Doc]

Yes, just buy it, if you don't use it you can flip it for $100 easily and come out ahead.


I will say, that JBL JRX setup will get noisy enough for a room that size lol it's also not the ugliest speakers out there but damn they are harsh on the ears.

Just put the Dave Natale curve on the EQ. Kill 160 and half of 315, then 2.5, 3.15 and 4k, and rock on.

 

[45acp]

I will say, that JBL JRX setup will get noisy enough for a room that size lol it's also not the ugliest speakers out there but damn they are harsh on the ears.

It's talking. Library? Conference room? Either way, it's not like they're going to be supporting a polka band or a DJ or blasting background music playlist. Just one person, one mic, making announcements.

Add to that he's trying to buy the town a bus with a horse budget. I don't think he needs to stress over the tweeters have a harsh peak at 9100hz or the sub clips bad on a couple of Korn songs or whatever.

 

[kf4zht]

70v systems with decent speakers sound fine and are a lot easier to install and balance than a multi channel.

 

[Mate from freight.]

I don't know where exactly you are but I have a bunch of stuff in Elkton MD you can have for free, but it's probably much more than you want or need, a Yamaha 3212 or a Behriger MX9000 mixer, 2 Crown 210 amps, a Behringer ultra curve EQ, Behringer feedback destroyer, some wireless mikes and a bunch of other random stuff and a studio rack to put it all in.

 

[arse_sidewards]

It's talking. Library? Conference room? Either way, it's not like they're going to be supporting a polka band or a DJ or blasting background music playlist. Just one person, one mic, making announcements.

Those announcements gotta be clear otherwise a brawl might break out on bingo night.

 

[kf4zht]

These work really well for smaller systems -

Modular Amplifiers V35/V60/V100/V150/V250

Bogen's Power Vector modular input amplifier series consists of five models, ranging from 35- to

www.bogen.com

Just add the modules you need based on inputs and its the mixer and amp all in one. You can do a remote master volume and a mute override for a Microphone to take over against the other inputs. They just work