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Talk to me about SUV tow rigs

OHV Wildcat said:
What fortuitous timing…

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Man I'd love to have that! I'd DD the shit out of it!!
 
arse_sidewards said:
Buy a fucking Grand Cherokee or any other 3-row unibody SUV. If you're not towing every weekend it'll be fine. I know a guy who hauled ~6000lb of construction material ever week for 2yr with one.



Because a leaf sprung excursion is so much better. :lmao:


BUT IT dOESn'T HaVE FOur WhEel DrivE
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My dislike for that freaking TTB front end is in the geometry changes. Put a bit of tongue weight on the vehicle, it will raise the front maybe 1/2” to an 1”. Which changes the caster from already dumb to terrible, and suddenly you have zero return-to-center on the steering wheel. It can be fixed by buying some alignment cam things and putting the wheels at a hilarious positive camber. Now you’re set for some small amount of tongue weight.

Now, that’s how it works for an eco online-based RV. That had something like an 8’ or 9’ lever arm between the ball and the rear axle. But it also had a much longer wheelbase, and 4500 pounds of front axle weight. So, how this translates to a normal length econoline I don’t know.
 
Im reading all this and confused at the goal? 3 rows? towing 10k? Newer?

3 rows...pick whatever floats your boat

towing 10k- 2500 sub with better hitch, or Excursion

Newer-- expedition or armada, 1500 suburban/yukon xl. The last 2500 non fleet suburban was 2013, You can find newer fleet ones, but they are rated to haul, not pull, and would need a properr hitch from what i have seen, not hard to make. The last excursion was 2005.

I have a 2000, v10 excursion with 4.30, Love it, wish it had more trans gears, but I slept in in this weekend by myself. Pulls 10k just fine.

If I had to pick newer , the 3.5 eco boost expedition EL is pretty compelling. Not a huge fan on IRS but they all have it now.
 
arse_sidewards said:
That's how we visited my grandma in Florida growing up. Three kids, one in car seat and two adults and all the luggage in a Honda Civic hatch. Leave the driveway at 3am. We'd be eating dinner in Santee SC at a normal hour. Santee was specifically chosen because it has/had a Best Western with a heated(!) pool right across from a Shoney's. Wake up at a "reasonable" hour, hit the buffet again for breakfast and then a "short" drive to Ft. Myers.
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We've actually done it 6 or 8 times while moving. 14 hours straight. Kids were 2, 3 and 8 then.....:laughing:
 
Cameronswmp9 said:
But our normal is 5. And our trips range from 1-13 hours, so far. 5 in a full size crew cab for an hour is one thing, for 13 is completely different.
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Grew up in a family of 5. Did road trips of weeks in an extended cap 79 Dodge, slide in camper on the back - I can only imagine the luxury of a crew cab in those days. Hell, did road trips with 4 adults/teens in an extended cab S-10 and Nissan King Cab. tell the family that it builds character.
 
Kunker said:
Grew up in a family of 5. Did road trips of weeks in an extended cap 79 Dodge, slide in camper on the back - I can only imagine the luxury of a crew cab in those days. Hell, did road trips with 4 adults/teens in an extended cab S-10 and Nissan King Cab. tell the family that it builds character.
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When I was a kid a friend of mine and I would ride for 3 hours in the bed of a 84 chevy with a topper on it to their river cabin because they only had a regular cab truck. It worked, but doesn't mean it was the right thing to do. :laughing:
 
I chuckle on the comfort we want/require now vs the past.

Sometimes I tell myself I need a newer quieter truck….then I think back on how people would cross the entire country in a damn horse and buggy. I still have AC and heat that work really well even though it’s loud and old…so I tell myself to stop bitching and keep moving lol

Edit: or maybe it’s my justification to not spend money on new shit lol
 
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06h3 said:
I chuckle on the comfort we want/require now vs the past.

Sometimes I tell myself I need a newer quieter truck….then I think back on how people would cross the entire country in a damn horse and buggy. I still have AC and heat that work really well even though it’s loud and old…so I tell myself to stop bitching and keep moving lol

Edit: or maybe it’s my justification to not spend money on new shit lol
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Quoted from another forum-
"When you hear people these days, it's a miracle anything got done before 1000lbs/ft diesels with AC seats and reverse cameras." People have towed have many thousands of cattle across the country in a 3/4 ton Chevy with a 350, and now it's nothing if it doesn't have 40 lbs boost.

I have towed well over the limits in a Ford fucking Ranger in my youth, and learned a lot from that, but now it's nice to be able to safely handle a load and not worry about that bus full of nuns.

pennsylvaniaboy said:
Im reading all this and confused at the goal? 3 rows? towing 10k? Newer?

3 rows...pick whatever floats your boat

towing 10k- 2500 sub with better hitch, or Excursion

Newer-- expedition or armada, 1500 suburban/yukon xl. The last 2500 non fleet suburban was 2013, You can find newer fleet ones, but they are rated to haul, not pull, and would need a properr hitch from what i have seen, not hard to make. The last excursion was 2005.

I have a 2000, v10 excursion with 4.30, Love it, wish it had more trans gears, but I slept in in this weekend by myself. Pulls 10k just fine.

If I had to pick newer , the 3.5 eco boost expedition EL is pretty compelling. Not a huge fan on IRS but they all have it now.
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Being a DD for me, and a family of 5, the interior space is a premium, especially with kiddos friends hanging with us. I know it's a double edged sword, needs in this hand don't fill needs in the other, so it is a compromise.

With the 3/4 ton SUVs a thing of the past, and new half ton SUVs filling the market, do I look at the old and fix it up, or do I go new with the modern tech, small drop in tow capacity but more comfort? Excursion is up to 11K, Sub 2500 is 9600, but these are at least 10 years old, Excursion pushing 17. Save money up front, but money into fixing it (will still be money saved in the long run). Expedition for reference is 9300, new Grand Wagoneer is 9800 or so (but out of the budget).

Towing maybe 4-8 times a year, planning on bigger trips out west (but can probably work out towing musical trailers type deal) but it's mostly going to be within a few states. Is it where we cut the line to go older, or keep new? Do I want to take on a smaller project in a DD to make it more comfortable?

The Expedition does look solid. If going slightly used, may have to do more digging than if we go new, but would be digging for a nice older SUV in the same hand too.
 
I haven’t towed with new stuff but the one compliant I hear with the F150 is that the load can dictate what the truck is doing vs the other way around. Is the expedition heavier? If so that may be a good thing.

I’d guess an ecoboost and 6/10 speed will out tow the old school stuff in terms of pure speed.
 
Cameronswmp9 said:
With the 3/4 ton SUVs a thing of the past, and new half ton SUVs filling the market, do I look at the old and fix it up, or do I go new with the modern tech, small drop in tow capacity but more comfort? Excursion is up to 11K, Sub 2500 is 9600, but these are at least 10 years old, Excursion pushing 17. Save money up front, but money into fixing it (will still be money saved in the long run). Expedition for reference is 9300, new Grand Wagoneer is 9800 or so (but out of the budget).
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Guess I'm old-school and don't give these new tow ratings much credit. How capable is that 200k eco-boost 7+ years after leaving the dealer lot? I know guys that run these as disposable tow pigs for their business while they buff their Superduties on Sundays. :flipoff2:

I'd still rather have the 3/4 Burb or Excursion and do a few mods for towing peace of mind. As for the 'low' tow rating... IME, it's a guideline and not a legal spec; too many variables and not stamped on the vehicle for that reason. Just don't overload the gvwr, hitch, axles, or tires, and keep your insurance/licensing straight.
 
I must've missed it... what are you hauling?

Trailer? Flat deck or enclosed? Weight empty?
 
Kunker said:
Grew up in a family of 5. Did road trips of weeks in an extended cap 79 Dodge, slide in camper on the back - I can only imagine the luxury of a crew cab in those days. Hell, did road trips with 4 adults/teens in an extended cab S-10 and Nissan King Cab. tell the family that it builds character.
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This. Me, the wife, 3 kids, and we take the crew cab ram on trips. Sure, they grump about squeezing in together in the back seat, but until they're making the payments on the truck or pitching in for gas, idc. Damn coddled kids these days. Crap, 30 years ago, it was rare to see a crew cab truck, ever...and now it's rare to see one that isn't. Imo, run what you brung and don't bust out the checkbook based on your freeloading kids. Do it if YOU want it, and for no other reason than that. They can adapt to anything.
 
A full-size 3/4 ton trail rig gets heavy in a hurry, if you're not willing to entertain a 20 yr old fuel guzzler in the form of either 8.1 suburban/Yukon or excursion with anything but the 5.4 which were the last of the good heavy towing suv breed, then just pick the newer model of your choice which should get 2-3x better fuel economy for dd duties and accept that you’ll just have to hammer on it to tow at the top end of its rating.
 
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TRINDU said:
I must've missed it... what are you hauling?

Trailer? Flat deck or enclosed? Weight empty?
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Yet to be acquired, but flat bed trailer. Prefer full deck for multiple use. Length will be dependent on what's available, but double edged sword again as a Longer trailer will be heavier, but have more room to tune tongue weight. Last trailer was a full deck steel 20 ft open, and was nice for steel, cars, wood, and equipment. Would be hard pressed to do that with an open deck, even though it will be lighter.
 
If you're really really set on that 3rd row, I'd figure out how to keep the offroad rig on a diet. You're talking full-size tail rig, which means 7k rig and 2500lb trailer which means you need to buy a 20 year old 2500 8.1 burb or 7.3 excursion and restore it. Not really, but you'd be pushing it with a late model ecoboost xl excursion....


But a 2014 wrangler unlimited has a curb weight of 4200lbs. Maybe 4700 lifted on 35s? Put it on a 7k 16' trailer and you're weight is at 7k, now you're running a late model 6.2 denali or ecoboost or 5.0 expedition or sequoia or something with 6/8/10 speeds and not hating life.

Also, the back seat of an aluminum f150 is huge, killer leg room

I found that kids aren't necessarily wide. Car seats are wide, if they're past that, you just need to deal with all the crap they travel with, backpacks and toys and snacks, with the huge amount of leg room in the f150, they can stuff that crap at their feet and not be each other's space. Just food for thought
 
06h3 said:
I’d guess an ecoboost and 6/10 speed will out tow the old school stuff in terms of pure speed.
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I love the 7.3 Excursion I've had for 20 years, but my buddy with a chipped Ecoboost Expy leaves me for dead in the CO mountains towing the same 7K load.

Mark
 
Cameronswmp9 said:
Yet to be acquired, but flat bed trailer. Prefer full deck for multiple use. Length will be dependent on what's available, but double edged sword again as a Longer trailer will be heavier, but have more room to tune tongue weight. Last trailer was a full deck steel 20 ft open, and was nice for steel, cars, wood, and equipment. Would be hard pressed to do that with an open deck, even though it will be lighter.
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Buy a half ton whatever with a weight distributing hitch. Airbags if you're feeling frisky.

Pick any make/model, they all suck equally.
 
Might be pushing the budget depending on the year, but the Suburban/Yukon XL Denali/Escalade might be worth looking at. The 6.2 was hard to come by in the Chevy's, but standard in the Denail & Escalade. The '10 speed came out in ;18; we have an '18 Yukon Denali (not the XL, Tahoe size). We haven't towed anything with it, but I really like the motor and trans combo. They had an 8 speed before the 10 speed that reportedly doesn't shift great. I'm not sure what the tow rating is on the XL, I think ours is ~7500 lbs. (wasn't a big consideration for us, we use my pickup for towing).

I will second that the newer Ford cabs are huge in the back seat, they feel at least as roomy as my Mega Cab dodge (just lacking the space behind the rear seat).
 
u2slow said:
Ya... the ecoboost will speed off to an early grave too. :homer:
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Do you have any actual experience to back this up or just spewing shit like 90% of people talking about newer trucks? Last guy who actually had experience with high mile ecoboosts reported many in their fleet at 200-300k with original engine and trans.

But I'm sure you have a neighbor who's cousin had one with some noise at 75k miles.:homer:

I'm not particularly a fan of most newer stuff, and if it's a pos fine, but no one has real info to back up their claims when it really boils down to it.
 
I’d be curious what an ecoboost lifespan is like towing all the time. In this case for OP it won’t tow all the time. It will live a happy long life.

I see both sides. I don’t think stuff is made as good as they used to be as a whole but there are exceptions. I hear nothing but good things about the ecoboost as a whole minus the cam phaser issue.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Do you have any actual experience to back this up or just spewing shit like 90% of people talking about newer trucks?
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Affiliated experience - my brother, BiL, plus 2 co-workers. I will not own one.

I work with larger industrial engines. If high-strung weeny little shit could carry the load day-in day-out, it would be done. Yet it isn't.... Hmmm. We use 13.5L of John Deere to make 250kW at a time.
 
u2slow said:
Affiliated experience - my brother, BiL, plus 2 co-workers. I will not own one.
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What's thier experience?

u2slow said:
I work with larger industrial engines. If high-strung weeny little shit could carry the load day-in day-out, it would be done. Yet it isn't.... Hmmm. We use 13.5L of John Deere to make 250kW at a time.
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How is it high strung? They will pull at a much lower rpm than an equivalent V8 with double the displacement.

Hurdur, can't replace muh John deere:homer:

Wtf does that have to do with pulling a car trailer? No where did anyone suggest an ecoboost for towing every single day. For exactly what the op asked about, it would be a great fit. Imo, they are just as reliable as the same Era V8s from my experience and everything I've read.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Do you have any actual experience to back this up or just spewing shit like 90% of people talking about newer trucks? Last guy who actually had experience with high mile ecoboosts reported many in their fleet at 200-300k with original engine and trans.

But I'm sure you have a neighbor who's cousin had one with some noise at 75k miles.:homer:

I'm not particularly a fan of most newer stuff, and if it's a pos fine, but no one has real info to back up their claims when it really boils down to it.
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We have worked on a handful of them in the shop, a couple of water pumps and two full timing jobs, not related to the water pump. Outside of that it's been scheduled maintenance and the normal brakes, suspension, tires, etc that every car runs into. Outside of being a stickler on maintenance I don't see much issue with them in my shop. I'm not terribly scared of the engine, I just know like any other engine there are things to look out for. Average mileage on these ( Flex, Explorer, F150, Expedition) is 90k. Corporate aftermarket repair shop.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Do you have any actual experience to back this up or just spewing shit like 90% of people talking about newer trucks? Last guy who actually had experience with high mile ecoboosts reported many in their fleet at 200-300k with original engine and trans.

But I'm sure you have a neighbor who's cousin had one with some noise at 75k miles.:homer:

I'm not particularly a fan of most newer stuff, and if it's a pos fine, but no one has real info to back up their claims when it really boils down to it.
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You got one little wound up squirrel cage and will die on that hill :flipoff2:
 
Personally looking at a '13 Expedition, 5.4 3v same as my F250, rated to tow 9,200 lbs. Oh and its $5k :flipoff2:
 
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