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Suppressors

WaterH said:
Can you define “form 1” ?
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Form 1 is for when YOU are manufacturing an NFA item. Form 4 is for when YOU are purchasing (and subsequently transferring) an NFA item. You can still Form 1 a suppressor as long as you submit plans and it's not built from a Chinese "cleaning" kit. I have not Form 1'd a suppressor but I have Form 1'd an SBR. Submit the Form 1, pay the $200 tax, wait for the Form 1 to come back, build (or in my case chuck it up on a lathe and "cut")...

I didn't e-file (not even a thing then) so it took over a year for the signed Form 1 to be returned.
 
VG SERE said:
I've read from a reputable source that they are only denying Form 1's if you list parts or a kit.

Which is in line with the statement from the ATF posted above.

List "raw stock" or "billet" and you should be fine.
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So would the plans have to be very detailed? Like if you made a drawing with threads on one end, but don’t say the thread count or size? Maybe you don’t give length or diameter? Will there be a serial number? How about if you make it for a certain barrel thread, but have multiple adapters to fit many guns?

suppressors are not rocket science. Hard to understand why I would pay a grand for one. ($200 for the stamp is bad enough) Has anyone on this site done a form 1? Please give details.
 
WaterH said:
So would the plans have to be very detailed? Like if you made a drawing with threads on one end, but don’t say the thread count or size? Maybe you don’t give length or diameter? Will there be a serial number? How about if you make it for a certain barrel thread, but have multiple adapters to fit many guns?

suppressors are not rocket science. Hard to understand why I would pay a grand for one. ($200 for the stamp is bad enough) Has anyone on this site done a form 1? Please give details.
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They kinda are rocket science, the good ones anyway... My SO has a PhD in CFD (computational fluid dynamics), needed for both modelling turbo pumps on rocket engines (her gig) or designing decent suppressors (among other things). I know you need to provide overall dimensions (can be on a cocktail napkin) cross section of baffle design AND the serial number to be engraved upon it. You can make as many adapters as you see fit, those are not controlled items.
 
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FrankenToy said:
They kinda are rocket science, the good ones anyway...
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One time I was shooting with my brother in a garbage dump. I picked up a flotation cushion. (For boats) Stuck the barrel against it and fired several times. The only thing I could hear was the slide clicking. If I didn’t see shit flying where the bullets hit, I would have thought it wasn’t shooting. Had to throw that cushion down. (Didn’t want a $50,000 fine) Someone told me a loaf of bread will do the same. I saw a real suppressor disassembled. Wasn’t much to it.
 
WaterH said:
One time I was shooting with my brother in a garbage dump. I picked up a flotation cushion. (For boats) Stuck the barrel against it and fired several times. The only thing I could hear was the slide clicking. If I didn’t see shit flying where the bullets hit, I would have thought it wasn’t shooting. Had to throw that cushion down. (Didn’t want a $50,000 fine) Someone told me a loaf of bread will do the same. I saw a real suppressor disassembled. Wasn’t much to it.
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The good suppressors are baffled so they don't burn out the packing like you would with that couch cushion in short order. The baffles make or break the volume you hear.

The movie industry 1000% ruined the availability of suppressors by making people think a silencer on a pistol the size of a roll of quarters would make it whisper quiet. Such bullshit. 🤦
 
WaterH said:
One time I was shooting with my brother in a garbage dump. I picked up a flotation cushion. (For boats) Stuck the barrel against it and fired several times. The only thing I could hear was the slide clicking. If I didn’t see shit flying where the bullets hit, I would have thought it wasn’t shooting. Had to throw that cushion down. (Didn’t want a $50,000 fine) Someone told me a loaf of bread will do the same. I saw a real suppressor disassembled. Wasn’t much to it.
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Fair enough, suppressors have been around before CFD was even a science. But.. it has made them quieter and more efficient (think size). I can tell you with unwavering certainty that I will not be using a loaf of bread or a couch cushion to suppress my machinegun (that suppressor is made of Inconel, another rocket science innovation). :flipoff2::beer:
 
Aisin said:
ATF started denying form 1 cans in March. According to them if you are filing paperwork you are already guilty of possessing an unregistered silencer. I have a SilencerCo Sparrow and an Omega 36M. Covers everything from .17 hmr to .338 Lapua. This is the email you will get from the ATF if you file a form 1 for a silencer.
E28748FC-E307-4DBD-9AA4-A0AB3B0F16ED.jpeg
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They started denying anyone starting with parts.

Specifically a few "solvent traps".


Just state "no material sourced until approval".
 
Aisin said:
Trust isn’t worth it unless you plan on letting people borrow your shit.
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That's not true. Look into storage requirements even if you're married and you file individual. Its supposed to be illegal for your spouse to have access to your cans. Trust handles that.

Aisin said:
My friend Kevin is on day 131ish for his efile. He filed mid February.
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I got a 76 day approval two weeks ago. Filled end of March. I keep hearing all these people having problems and times getting longer, and can't help but think it's new individuals or people using these single shot trusts from SS. My stuff was approved on a trust that's well established for many years with a lot of schedule A inventory.

Could that be why mine was approved so fast?

Though, it doesn't explain why I'm still waiting on a second identical suppressor filed the same day.....:homer:
 
Texas97 said:
That's not true. Look into storage requirements even if you're married and you file individual. Its supposed to be illegal for your spouse to have access to your cans. Trust handles that.



I got a 76 day approval two weeks ago. Filled end of March. I keep hearing all these people having problems and times getting longer, and can't help but think it's new individuals or people using these single shot trusts from SS. My stuff was approved on a trust that's well established for many years with a lot of schedule A inventory.

Could that be why mine was approved so fast?

Though, it doesn't explain why I'm still waiting on a second identical suppressor filed the same day.....:homer:
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No it’s not why your shit got approved fast. I don’t have a trust and got my last can in 85 days. Filed January 7th approved April 1st. When efile first started in December guys that filed as individual were getting approved in under 2 weeks. No fucks given about my wife. She does not touch anything gun related.
 
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Aisin said:
No it’s not why your shit got approved fast. I don’t have a trust and got my last can in 85 days. Filed January 7th approved April 1st. When efile first started in December guys that filed as individual were getting approved in under 2 weeks. No fucks given about my wife. She does not touch anything gun related.
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well, thats good. per the letter of the law, if she has or can gain access to the suppressors, then thats "illegal".

and right, everyone who got in early got fast approval.

but now that silencer shop is doing their thing, its just a hunch.
 
I’m looking at Amtac Rongo over the barrel suppressor with curiosity. It reminds me of an old book I read in pdf that discusses multiple mounting points that anchor the suppressor to the barrel for stability. The three point mount design was pretty nice. I don’t think the amtacs mount like that but the blast chamber behind the muzzle was a part of the design.
 
Aisin said:
No it’s not why your shit got approved fast. I don’t have a trust and got my last can in 85 days. Filed January 7th approved April 1st. When efile first started in December guys that filed as individual were getting approved in under 2 weeks. No fucks given about my wife. She does not touch anything gun related.
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That might be true, mine will only shoot once in a blue moon with me, but there are plenty of scenarios where a trust is handy, not to mention grown kids or heirs. My kids are 4 and 2 but if I want both of them to be able to use any cash when I’m gone, a trust seems to be the only way to do that.

You go to the range in your vehicle, pick the wife up from work and go to dinner with friends. Boys are going out for a few drinks after and you join them, wife is tired and drives your car home, you’ll get an Uber later.

Big one in my future is hunting with kids, several friends of mine own ranches but not cans, I might come every couple of weeks and want to let them hold my rifle and/or can in the meantime, to hunt with their kids while I’m not there.

There really is no down side to a trust, IMO.
 
Texas97 said:
That's not true. Look into storage requirements even if you're married and you file individual. Its supposed to be illegal for your spouse to have access to your cans. Trust handles that.



I got a 76 day approval two weeks ago. Filled end of March. I keep hearing all these people having problems and times getting longer, and can't help but think it's new individuals or people using these single shot trusts from SS. My stuff was approved on a trust that's well established for many years with a lot of schedule A inventory.

Could that be why mine was approved so fast?

Though, it doesn't explain why I'm still waiting on a second identical suppressor filed the same day.....:homer:
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I can't keep track. It used to be a trust was faster, then an individual. I dunno.
 
Roc Doc said:
I can't keep track. It used to be a trust was faster, then an individual. I dunno.
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the ATF cant keep track either.

but my personal frustration lately stems from a can being transferred to a local shop (friend owns it, my family has worked at it). they have one guy who does all Form 4 filing. i have had very little interaction with him over the years. Form 3 clears, i get all my stuff over there the week after (fingerprint copies, photos) and he kinda slow handles it. we email a couple of times and then he says its submitted. OK. i ask "what about the responsible person forms?" " its cool, i have those filed out, i always do it this way, no need for anything else". fast forward 8 weeks from when my can cleared the Form 3 and i get an email from him. "Hey, i just realized your stuff didnt get submitted. need you to fill out and sign the responsible persons forms!" WTF.

my last one was 76 days to approval, they were claiming at this particular shop they have seen as little as 66 days and as much as 120. they just burned 60 days by not submitting. im going to gently bring it up to my buddy who owns the place. its not the end of the world, just something to shake your head at.
 
Sure seems like a whole lot of money, headache and bullshit to go through just to run a little muffler.
 
Texas97 said:
Obtuse? Like doing five 30 round mag dumps through your new AR kind of obtuse?:flipoff2:
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That was a very exaggerated example meant to be outrageous.

It's weird, you guys jumped on dickweed and then complained when he was getting worked up replying to you two. I'm not that guy I can just ignore you two unlike him so feel free to go off the rails or let it die. Doesn't matter to me.
 
DWT said:
Sure seems like a whole lot of money, headache and bullshit to go through just to run a little muffler.
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It’s a fucking awesome time. 22lr sbr out of a 4.5 inch barrel with a SilencerCo Sparrow.
 
Aisin said:
It’s a fucking awesome time. 22lr sbr out of a 4.5 inch barrel with a SilencerCo Sparrow.
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Oh no, don't misunderstand me I'm not saying suppressors are silly or anything of the sort are dumb, I'm saying the hoops to pay for permission are stupid. Not everyone begs the kings permission to live is all I'm saying. 😎
 
DWT said:
Oh no, don't misunderstand me I'm not saying suppressors are silly or anything of the sort are dumb, I'm saying the hoops to pay for permission are stupid. Not everyone begs the kings permission to live is all I'm saying. 😎
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It’s nice to be legal and have no worries. I had a cop ask to see my paperwork last weekend. I told him to get fucked.
 
DWT said:
That was a very exaggerated example meant to be outrageous.

It's weird, you guys jumped on dickweed and then complained when he was getting worked up replying to you two. I'm not that guy I can just ignore you two unlike him so feel free to go off the rails or let it die. Doesn't matter to me.
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no one is getting worked up here. just having some conversations and some good natured ribbing. no need to get all Richard Marijuana on us.
 
DWT said:
Oh no, don't misunderstand me I'm not saying suppressors are silly or anything of the sort are dumb, I'm saying the hoops to pay for permission are stupid. Not everyone begs the kings permission to live is all I'm saying. 😎
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not sure how a suppressor = permission to live.

I suppose you could just skip that pesky ATM limit and rip the thing out of the wall but I'm not willing to live with the consequences of that either.
 
Aisin said:
It’s nice to be legal and have no worries. I had a cop ask to see my paperwork last weekend. I told him to get fucked.
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If such a thing we're ever to be out in a situation where someone of authority can see it paperwork is the least of my worries.
 
DWT said:
That was a very exaggerated example meant to be outrageous.

It's weird, you guys jumped on dickweed and then complained when he was getting worked up replying to you two. I'm not that guy I can just ignore you two unlike him so feel free to go off the rails or let it die. Doesn't matter to me.
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The types that shout and don't listen often get jumped on. I don't consider you to be in that camp, I was just talking a little smack up above. :beer:
 
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