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Social Security... yay, or nay? Also the msm is completely full of shit.

Social Security... yay, or nay? Also the msm is completely full of shit.

  • Social Security is an awesome program~ I love getting taxed that 6.2%! (more if self employed)

    Votes: 5 6.4%

  • Fawk Social Security~ I can be responsible for my own success or demise with that money!

    Votes: 56 71.8%

  • Bacon~ lovely, crispy, juicy bacon... mmmmmmmmm

    Votes: 17 21.8%
  • Total voters
    78
  • Poll closed .
Slander said:
You would also have to overhaul the bullshit 401k and IRA regulations.

Evernoob Ron Paul had a plan to ween the country off SS.

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Just curious, which specific 401k regulations would you repeal?

Personally, I find the contribution limitations idiotic.
 
Keeping inflation under control to allow people to save instead of keeping it high to encourage spending and riskier investment would be a nice start to fixing retirement problems. Of course that only helps those who actually save, but it's just a start.


Social Security was a pretty brilliant move by FDR to buy votes by giving away ponies. Still, it's a scam.
 
rockota said:
Just curious, which specific 401k regulations would you repeal?

Personally, I find the contribution limitations idiotic.
Click to expand...


contribution limits and what I can actually purchase with the money. IRAs frustrate me more than 401k's.
 
rockota said:
Just curious, which specific 401k regulations would you repeal?

Personally, I find the contribution limitations idiotic.
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On 401 K, I find the tax on it idiotic.

a traditional 401K is still taxed as income when you collect it, so don't fool yourself when you look at the number in your account, you will kiss 20% of that away when you cash out.
 
grumpy356 said:
On 401 K, I find the tax on it idiotic.

a traditional 401K is still taxed as income when you collect it, so don't fool yourself when you look at the number in your account, you will kiss 20% of that away when you cash out.
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But it should be taxed at a lower rate since you will in theory be taking less than you were making while employed. So if you are making 100k now and paying ~24% but can live in retirement on sub 50k then you only get taxed at 12% then. But it requires planning and shuffling.

I wish they would get rid of the max amount into 401k, or allow the max for traditional and roth as seperate limits
 
TheFlyingDildocupine said:
Keeping inflation under control to allow people to save instead of keeping it high to encourage spending and riskier investment would be a nice start to fixing retirement problems. Of course that only helps those who actually save, but it's just a start.


Social Security was a pretty brilliant move by FDR to buy votes by giving away ponies. Still, it's a scam.
Click to expand...

Oh no haven't you been listening to the fed, inflation is a GREAT thing for americans and thier jobs!!! So much stupidity out there right now. Economy stalls out due to a pandemic (right or wrong) everyone stands around with thumbs up their asses in amazement as to why americans have no savings and are up to their eyeballs in debt, the fix: more debt and a fiscal policy that fucks the savers even harder, everyone cheers:homer:


In b4 someone gives me some stupid ass bullshit about how a devalued dollar helps the usa because they read it in the WSJ while eating a continental breakfast at a holiday inn they stayed at last night.. save it.
 
Slander said:
Oh no haven't you been listening to the fed, inflation is a GREAT thing for americans and thier jobs!!! So much stupidity out there right now. Economy stalls out due to a pandemic (right or wrong) everyone stands around with thumbs up their asses in amazement as to why americans have no savings and are up to their eyeballs in debt, the fix: more debt and a fiscal policy that fucks the savers even harder, everyone cheers:homer:


In b4 someone gives me some stupid ass bullshit about how a devalued dollar helps the usa because they read it in the WSJ while eating a continental breakfast at a holiday inn they stayed at last night.. save it.
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I know, I know. Actually that line of shit is a big part of the reason I switched from business school to something useful a long time ago.
 
kf4zht said:
But it should be taxed at a lower rate since you will in theory be taking less than you were making while employed. So if you are making 100k now and paying ~24% but can live in retirement on sub 50k then you only get taxed at 12% then. But it requires planning and shuffling.

I wish they would get rid of the max amount into 401k, or allow the max for traditional and roth as seperate limits
Click to expand...

This,

I don't really understand the planning and shuffle remark. It doesn't take a rocket scientist. I made about 100k and paid everything off. Now I'm retired and can easily live on less than 25. If you have no bills, what do you spend money on? I do have some relitives that retired before paying off their house. That's stupid in my opinion.
 
Slander said:
In b4 someone gives me some stupid ass bullshit about how a devalued dollar helps the usa because they read it in the WSJ while eating a continental breakfast at a holiday inn they stayed at last night.. save it.
Click to expand...

Actually, inflation and the devaluation of the dollar is great for the economy and jobs. It's just not good for the individual. It's like people that trade in their car for a new one every two years. It really helps the economy. But it's terrible for those people.
 
WaterH said:
This,

I don't really understand the planning and shuffle remark. It doesn't take a rocket scientist. I made about 100k and paid everything off. Now I'm retired and can easily live on less than 25. If you have no bills, what do you spend money on? I do have some relitives that retired before paying off their house. That's stupid in my opinion.
Click to expand...

My Home taxes and insurance is $14,400 a year and going UP.

I figure I have close to 20 years left before I retire.

So in 20 years when I go to retire, no telling how insurance and taxes will be.
Now, I am going to want a descent old man truck how much are trucks going to be in 20 years?
Car insurance?
Utilities?
Food and social? (what do you do when you aren't at work?)
Good phone and data plan?
Little bit of streaming services?
Old people seem to love landscaping. How much is that a month?
A few Dr. visits, maybe a minor procedure?

Seems like however much I have, it's not nearly enough.
 
WaterH said:
Actually, inflation and the devaluation of the dollar is great for the economy and jobs. It's just not good for the individual. It's like people that trade in their car for a new one every two years. It really helps the economy. But it's terrible for those people.
Click to expand...

Is it really though? You can claim "your house is worth more!" and "people are making more money than ever!" but if the buying power of those sums of money are the same or lower than before, is it really helping anyone?
 
WaterH said:
Actually, inflation and the devaluation of the dollar is great for the economy and jobs. It's just not good for the individual. It's like people that trade in their car for a new one every two years. It really helps the economy. But it's terrible for those people.
Click to expand...

I remember having this argument with screwy. First do you REALLY know what inflation actually is? Would you want something that loses value over time or gains value over time? Now apply that to money and stop looking at number of dollars you get vs what you can actually get with those dollars.

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well i lost 20 years worth of savings in 11 or 12. after that i only put 10% in 401 and the rest in real-estate. the real estate has been a home run for me. and damn some of y'all have some high taxes. all 5 of my property's together cost me around 4k a year.
 
Stingray said:
My 401K is substantial, but until you are there how much is enough? Today I'm teaching my son invest in a Roth IRA, He doesn't need the tax deferment and Today it's a better investment. Pay the taxes now. And not have a tax burden when you retire. (I'm 58 and doing a lot of planning
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poor people look for write offs, wealthy people look for tax shelters. the tax savings on 401k and house interest (which makes me laugh because everyone is chasing the lowest interest rate) is pennies.

the Roth is the unsung hero of wealth generation.
 
mobil1syn said:
poor people look for write offs, wealthy people look for tax shelters. the tax savings on 401k and house interest (which makes me laugh because everyone is chasing the lowest interest rate) is pennies.

the Roth is the unsung hero of wealth generation.
Click to expand...

But the Roth also has numerous limitations, especially on high-earners...
 
WaterH said:
This,

I don't really understand the planning and shuffle remark. It doesn't take a rocket scientist. I made about 100k and paid everything off. Now I'm retired and can easily live on less than 25. If you have no bills, what do you spend money on? I do have some relitives that retired before paying off their house. That's stupid in my opinion.
Click to expand...

I have a grandparent that has blown through theirs spending over 100k a year in retirement.... it can happen. Don't even travel or make big purchases

The important thing is balancing where you draw your money from. Say you need 65k a year. You need to know to take only what will keep you under 50k (or whatever the tax bracket is) of taxable and the rest from untaxable - like a roth. As soon as you take over the tax bracket you lost the advantages. Also if you were going to have a bunch of medical expenses you would want to take enough to make it deductible, or have moved a pile into an HSA and are spending pretax $$s on medical costs.

Same as I have known people who would take their whole years estimated distributuion at once instead of leaving it in to keep gathering interest over the year. Also sometimes it can make sense to take more if your investments are at a peak point

None of this is hard, but some people suck at it.
 
Stingray said:
If SS was left alone and not robbed, it "probably" would work. But the dysfunctional system we have is a fail.
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This. As originally designed it was a decent system, but as we all know the greedy politicians looked at SS as a slush fund and raided it for pork barrel shit.
 
SanDiegoCJ said:
This. As originally designed it was a decent system, but as we all know the greedy politicians looked at SS as a slush fund and raided it for pork barrel shit.
Click to expand...

Just like the gas tax in California. Stated it would only be used for highway improvement, and it was complete bullshit
 
This got me doing some rough math. I'm sure I'm wrong.

$ 50,000.00 per year x.063 = $ 3,150 per year S.S. theft.

Invest $ 3150 per year at a safe 5% return compounding for 40 years = $ 381,575

$ 1,500 per month S.S. benefit check.

You would have to collect S.S. for 21 years to break even.
 
rockota said:
But the Roth also has numerous limitations, especially on high-earners...
Click to expand...

Like what? I am 100% ROTH, and if you are maxing out your contribution limits, it makes way more sense than a traditional 401K.



I am fine with having Social Security around since most people are too dumb to save for retirement on their own, but I wish there was an "opt out" option, because I am 100% positive I could get a far better return on my money than Social Security (assuming it is even still solvent by the time I am of age).
 
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Chzbrgr said:
This got me doing some rough math. I'm sure I'm wrong.

$ 50,000.00 per year x.063 = $ 3,150 per year S.S. theft.

Invest $ 3150 per year at a safe 5% return compounding for 40 years = $ 381,575

$ 1,500 per month S.S. benefit check.

You would have to collect S.S. for 21 years to break even.
Click to expand...

you do realize, you pay 6.2% and your employer also has to pay 6.2%
12.4%
 
'84 Bronco II said:
Like what? I am 100% ROTH, and if you are maxing out your contribution limits, it makes way more sense than a traditional 401K.



I am fine with having Social Security around since most people are too dumb to save for retirement on their own, but I wish there was an "opt out" option, because I am 100% positive I could get a far better return on my money than Social Security (assuming it is even still solvent by the time I am of age).
Click to expand...

like contribution limits.... $6k/year as long as your MAGI is under $124k. Over $139k and you can't contribute at all.

If the ROTH was similar to 401k limits, it'd be killer. But the government mucks this up...
 
TheFlyingDildocupine said:
Is it really though? You can claim "your house is worth more!" and "people are making more money than ever!" but if the buying power of those sums of money are the same or lower than before, is it really helping anyone?
Click to expand...

My point is the economy is good for the US government. It is not good for the individual for exactly the reasons you state. The government always has more money to spend. While you work it's not terrible because you keep making more, but as soon as you stop working, inflation destroys savings.

im seriously thinking of buying heavy equipment. I just don't know how much it loses value. Would it be better to buy a couple years old, like a car? (I'm talking about a excavator and a loader around 80-100k)
 
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