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Shielding gas cylinders

Clb

Clb

another toyota from P.R.K
Joined
May 19, 2020
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32
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First 50 club
Just got a miller 211
I have no cylinder as yet.
2 questions
size
Gas mix

Seems the 250-300 cu ft is the best value?


Looks like 75-25 or trimix?
Regular maintenance, fab shit.

I have a ?25? Argon bottle
If I get a spool gun..

Recommendations?
 
75/25 or straight CO2. Tri mix is for stainless mig. Get the biggest cylinder you can afford.
 
I've got an older 211, I run 75/25 in the bigger cylinder that Praxair had. Don't have a spool gun so your guess is as good as mine
 
Don't rent the bottles, buy them. 300cu/ft. Cheaper in the long run. If I would have done that in the beginning, I could have spare bottles for everything and still be money ahead.

The only bottle I don't own is the acetylene. Local welding supply farms out their filling of acetylene, so renting that makes it a quick swap.
 
From long ago of doing just oxy acl welding and cutting dont go out and get a brand new bottle and then get bitched out when you attempt to get a refill as the gas companys are use to ( or were use to as a my experience is 30 years ago) the exchange mentality and you (unless you have an arrangement with the gas company) dont get the same bottle back.

Like I said my experience is old days 30 yrs ago so maybe its changed IDK.
 
The sheilding gas tank you want is a 330 or 336. Talk to your gas supplier first before you buy one. Some will swap the smaller sizes but only swap the 330 size if you have a lease agreement.
 
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For a smaller, more portable welder like that, I like the 150 cf size. Decent value and not to heavy and awkward if you need to wheel the welder out in the gravel.

For a dedicated shop welder, the bigger one would definitely be cheaper in the long run.

I have 3 150 cf bottles and 1 75 CF bottle.
 
Thanx Guy's!
I will buy my own, the rent shit for more than a month mentality does not work for me.
I like the ease of small tank portability, this rig only has 2 stations(indoor).
Me being a cheap azz toyota guy( someone's ears are burning) I would rather save $$$ on refills if the amount \ volume makes a difference?
I got flux core for yard work...
School me please!
big tank cost less to refill?
Or is it by the volume like a propane tank?
 
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Yea
yea ok I gettit big=good!
How is the volume differential priced?
is a 125 =to 1\2 of a 250, dollar wise to refill from empty?
​
 
Clb said:
Yea
yea ok I gettit big=good!
How is the volume differential priced?
is a 125 =to 1\2 of a 250, dollar wise to refill from empty?
​
Click to expand...

It doesn't seem to scale that way. I exchanged a friend's smaller cylinder (after I borrowed it) and it seems like it cost me 90% of the cost of my 125 cf. I think the gas itself is a minor part of the cost, it's more the labor, or the storage, or whatever else they are charging for.
 
Call your lws for refill prices that will give you an idea. Like said earlier buy the biggest argon/mix tank you can afford. That's what I did than get a smaller one for when your bigger one runs out for backup while refilling. It sucks running out if you weld on the weekends and have nowhere to refill. Were I live lws aren't open on weekends.

If your thinking about welding aluminum or stainless or pulse spray whatever, you can find gas mixers on ebay and mix yourself by the turn of a dial.
 
Benny said:
For a smaller, more portable welder like that, I like the 150 cf size. Decent value and not to heavy and awkward if you need to wheel the welder out in the gravel.

For a dedicated shop welder, the bigger one would definitely be cheaper in the long run.

I have 3 150 cf bottles and 1 75 CF bottle.
Click to expand...

​​​​​​This is what I did for my 211. The big bitches are a better value, but if you're just the average guy, it's going to take years to pay off. Iirc, my 125 was around $350 new, full and about $80 to swap. I want to say the biggest bottle was at least double. Yes it's not much more to swap, maybe $120, but if you're just doing it as a hobby, a 150 might last you a year. My first one did.

Those big ass bottles are heavy as fuck and if you roll you welder around the garage, it's going to be that much harder.

I Lean said:
It doesn't seem to scale that way. I exchanged a friend's smaller cylinder (after I borrowed it) and it seems like it cost me 90% of the cost of my 125 cf. I think the gas itself is a minor part of the cost, it's more the labor, or the storage, or whatever else they are charging for.
Click to expand...

This is right. It's like the actual gas is only ~20% of the cost. My like 75 or 60 cf was only a little cheaper than my current 125 or 150.

I would only do the 300 or whatever their biggest size is, if the welder never moves, or if you plan to make a huge cate for it. My bottle and 211 fit the HF cart with drawers well, and it's really nice to have all my consumables and grinding wheels on the cart.
 
I've got a 125, and it's a PITA to roll around. Better since I found a bottle dolly, but I still wish I had a bitty one sometimes.

Tons of things change regionally, and by company. My tank was 20 years out of date for a pressure test when I bought it out of some guys shed. The local shop didn't even look at it and swapped me out. Some don't, and will charge you for a pressure test.

I've read stories of someone taking a tank in for a refill and being told "Sorry, that's a rental tank, we'll be keeping it." No idea if they're true. I did call in a tank I was selling that had a company collar, and they verified that it was owned. (We only have a couple gas companies in town.)

image_6893.jpg
 
subybaja said:
I've got a 125, and it's a PITA to roll around. Better since I found a bottle dolly, but I still wish I had a bitty one sometimes.
Click to expand...

That's because you suck at rolling it around.:flipoff2: I suck at it too. I can go about 5' at a good clip, then I get death wobble.

The folks at the welding store can rip around with two bottles as fast as you can walk. So, it can be done.


I have to show the receipt for purchasing my bottles before they will refill them. They won't fill a bottle they didn't sell or rent. I've never tried to get the bottles filled somewhere else, my LWS is 10mins from my house.
 
subybaja said:
I've got a 125, and it's a PITA to roll around. Better since I found a bottle dolly, but I still wish I had a bitty one sometimes.

Tons of things change regionally, and by company. My tank was 20 years out of date for a pressure test when I bought it out of some guys shed. The local shop didn't even look at it and swapped me out. Some don't, and will charge you for a pressure test.

I've read stories of someone taking a tank in for a refill and being told "Sorry, that's a rental tank, we'll be keeping it." No idea if they're true. I did call in a tank I was selling that had a company collar, and they verified that it was owned. (We only have a couple gas companies in town.)

Click to expand...

There is like a million other sizes also. I feel like the old bottle I had would get swapped for anything from a 65 to a 75. But for the most part they kinda have tiers.

Sounds like some welding places are a pain in the ass. I just pull up and say I have bottle to swap. They roll mine in and roll out another. Sometimes they look brand new, sometimes they look slightly used, I don't give a fuck as long as they keep taking it back.

You can always swap for different gasses also, you just get screwed if you didn't empty the tank.
 
subybaja said:
I've read stories of someone taking a tank in for a refill and being told "Sorry, that's a rental tank, we'll be keeping it." No idea if they're true. I did call in a tank I was selling that had a company collar, and they verified that it was owned. (We only have a couple gas companies in town.)
Click to expand...

You can always flap wheel the collar, half assedly needle scale most of the top of the tank and then leave it outside until it's got a nice patina then when you bring it in the usually assume it lived on the back of a service truck or something. :laughing:
 
I had some tanks I got from someone at another job. I asked the welding shop if they would swap them, they said bring them over but leave them in the bed of my truck and they will look. If I take them out of the truck and they own the bottles, they would take them and I would get nothing.
 
I've acquired my dozen or so bottles $100 a time off CL. I've had them exchanged at multiple different shops, and those shops have changed owners over the years. For welding I prefer the 120-ish bottles.

These tons of different sizes, but your <150 size and down are typically "owner" bottles. I dont refill and just exchange them, usually make the point to request a "slick neck", if none are available just have the receipt in safe keeping. Youre talking thousands upon thousands of bottles a company "owns" ... they dont have a fucking clue who has what. When someone rents one, they return it, then when I exchange I would get the bottle. Some are sketchy about someone elses name on the neck, but havent been turned away yet.

Only time I had trouble was when I bought three 250 C02 bottles from a restaurant liquidation. Receipt in hand from the sale. I pulled up to the welding shop and the first guy told me "we have to confiscate those" to my reply was "kiss my ass". Come to find out they only rented 250 bottles with their name, never sold. I ended up exchanging them for three 120 slick necks, and paid for the gas and certs. They were happy just to get their big bottles back. I was happy to have 3 more bottles


Cliffs: buy some 120s and dont worry about them being rented or owned. I have one 80, it's useless and only used for small aluminum jobs.
 
I've bought every bottle 2nd hand, and found my local praxair to be super cool, I've swapped unneeded bottles for needed bottles, smaller bottles for bigger bottles, with what I always felt was really fair pricing
when the location near me closed, i get similar service across town, never had a problem


I have all big bottles, including a 75/25 on my big welder, I keep a little 100a wire feed with flux core I'll never put a bottle on, too convenient to grab and go
 
I deal with both Praxair and Central Welding for gases, they are usually about the same for pricing and there isn't much difference in gas pricing per cubic foot whether you are buying a 120 or a 330. I own all my bottles, only rent a helium bottle once a year for about a week when I need to mix up a batch of trimix.

For a smaller portable welder go with the 125 and if you can afford it, get a second one to stick in the corner because on some Saturday night at midnight you'll run out. For the spare bottle you might think about an 80, it'd be enough to get you by until Monday and they are easier to move if you need to take your welder over to a buddies house.

Always check bottle neck ID for rental rings when you buy or exchange them. Have had them try to sneak a rental bottle in an exchange before. May have been an innocent mistake, but they sure can spot a rental cylinder a long way off when you bring one back.

You can also find used owner bottles through craigslist and garage sales a lot cheaper than buying new.

One time (at welding camp) I picked up an extremely old 330 rental cylinder at an estate sale, I googled the company on the ring, they had closed up years ago. When I tried to exchange it, the gas place tried to tell me it was theirs, that they had acquired the closed company through mergers when it closed. I stood my ground asking him to prove it. They ended up exchanging it out for an owner bottle.
 
Thanx gents
packing for a fishing trip, when I get back I need to follow up on the suggestions made here....
 
Clb said:
Thanx gents
packing for a fishing trip, when I get back I need to follow up on the suggestions made here....
Click to expand...

I missed a few posts. I'm guessing the general consensus was to either buy some obscure 500 cf tank with its own wheels built in or make your own pussy? :flipoff2:
 
Brad said:
75/25 or straight CO2. Tri mix is for stainless mig. Get the biggest cylinder you can afford.
Click to expand...

BS... Tri-gas works great on carbon steel. It's just expensive.

Stay away from Air Gas they tend to overcharge on everything.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
I missed a few posts. I'm guessing the general consensus was to either buy some obscure 500 cf tank with its own wheels built in or make your own pussy? :flipoff2:
Click to expand...

are we missing some punctuation in the last 5 words?
Can you put some inflection into how to determine your intent.:flipoff2:


Am I a pussy for weighing less than a full 500 cu ft tank?

Does a wheeled tank = pussy?

My guess is
Make your own cart.

Or is Pussy just good stuff! (No shitt)

And as always...
Bacon​​​​​
 
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Some quick prices for you to ponder
oxygen 250cf, $18
argon, 250cf (in a 300 cf tank for whatever reason) $59
75/25 same as argon, $65
64lb co2, $35

if they're charging you more you're expected to call them out on it
if you don't, then they know you don't have a clue what to pay and will gouge you harder next time as well as pulling shit like trying to steal your tanks
 
Idk what you guys are talking about I just lift my 125 cf tanks and move them around they aren't that heavy.

For price wise I pay 40ish for my 125cf

I also have a few 30s and they are 30ish. If you are going to do a decent amount get the biggest you can imo. A 125 will last me 2-3 months of hobby shit/ random projects.
 
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