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EO's only apply to federal agencies, no?

Ex branch, but that could easily trickle down to non-federal entities. Like if there is a EO directing EPA to unicorn farts, it would also effect unicorn farms. But I'm no lawyer just listen to alot of different sources and try to understand as much as I can.

Executive Orders are issued by the White House and are used to direct the Executive Branch of the U.S. Government. Executive Orders state mandatory requirements for the Executive Branch, and have the effect of law. They are issued in relation to a law passed by Congress or based on powers granted to the President in the Constitution and must be consistent with those authorities. Executive Orders are given numbers and abbreviated as “EO XXXXX”. Executive Orders are numbered in ascending order, so a higher number means the order was given more recently. Executive Orders may amend earlier orders.

If you want to see what a particular Executive Order mandated, you would look at that order. If you want to see the most recent requirements for a particular program, you should look at the Executive Order in that subject area with the highest number.

The National Archives maintains a list of each President’s Executive Orders. They can be accessed by year and subject for each Presidential Administration.
 
Agreed. I assumed (correctly) the 2 rulings that came today and they should not have been a surprise to anyone.

The issue with Trump on DACA is they din't have any good reason to end it. Law say it can't be aributary, or cause I don't like that so I'm gonna stop it. Seems like they could have made a good case and legit reasons to end it but chose not to. There are so many conditions with laws anymore it's insane and what trips nearly everyone up. You have to be exact in the letter of the law and what it requires.

Not I don't agree with it.

Exactly. Ironically, the easiest way to end DACA is to challenge its constitutionality in court!!
 
I must be missing something with this... Didn't Obama "create" DACA with an Executive Order? If he had the power to do that, then why doesn't the current administration have the power to end it with an Executive Order?
 
You asked "Where exactly in the constitution is there a law that allows minors to immigrate outside of our normal immigration laws?" and the answer is nowhere because it doesn't work that way.

No but immigration is soley under the authority of the federal govt. The states have fuck all to say over immigration issues.
 
Agreed. I assumed (correctly) the 2 rulings that came today and they should not have been a surprise to anyone.

The issue with Trump on DACA is they din't have any good reason to end it. Law say it can't be aributary, or cause I don't like that so I'm gonna stop it. Seems like they could have made a good case and legit reasons to end it but chose not to. There are so many conditions with laws anymore it's insane and what trips nearly everyone up. You have to be exact in the letter of the law and what it requires.

Not I don't agree with it.

Youre absolutely right. All trump has to do is rewrite his executive order with the reasons why and start deporting people. SCOTUS never said DACA couldnt be rescinded just he had to have reason to do so.
 
I must be missing something with this... Didn't Obama "create" DACA with an Executive Order? If he had the power to do that, then why doesn't the current administration have the power to end it with an Executive Order?

Seems you can you just have to follow the legal mumble jumbo to do so. Don't know what that is or why.

In contracting that I do we always have a clause that says the government can terminate this contract for cause. So I have to state the exact reason I want to terminate and why and it has to met a certain legal threshold to be acceptable. I can't just terminate because I don't like this guy or don't like this contract. I have to be very specific and say that this contract is causing xyz hardship on widget abc, and vendor lkw as been unable to resolve the issue. Of course that is contracting and could be 180 degrees different from an EO termination, but from the language I am assuming (could be wrong) that this case is similar.
 
With his voting record it wouldn't surprise me if he just flipped a coin.

EDIT: but really it's just an attempt to bring down Trump, not because holding kids accountable for being dragged along by mom and dad might be a bit problematic. What next, arresting kids because mom or dad was doing 15 over with them in the car?

Your moral reasoning is flawed and unnecessary. 14th Amendment was for Black Slaves who were brought here without their consent, not Illegal Immigrants who come here because they get Driver's Licenses and SNAP.

You don't have to worry about any of it, literally no one is going to do anything about Illegal Immigration or Replacement Migration.

10:27

https://www.c-span.org/video/?324394-2/vice-president-joe-biden-remarks-extremism-terrorism
 
Your moral reasoning is flawed and unnecessary. 14th Amendment was for Black Slaves who were brought here without their consent, not Illegal Immigrants who come here because they get Driver's Licenses and SNAP.

You don't have to worry about any of it, literally no one is going to do anything about Illegal Immigration or Replacement Migration.

10:27

https://www.c-span.org/video/?324394...mism-terrorism

How about enforcing the 14th amendment as written.

Amendment XIV

Section 1.


All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


The amendment clearly states "any person within it's jurisdiction". That includes illegal immigrants, whether you like it or not. :flipoff2::stirthepot:


Yick Wo v. Hopkins (1886)


In Yick Wo v. Hopkins, a case involving the rights of Chinese immigrants, the Court ruled that the 14th Amendment's statement, "Nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws," applied to all persons "without regard to any differences of race, of color, or of nationality," and to "an alien, who has entered the country, and has become subject in all respects to its jurisdiction, and a part of its population, although alleged to be illegally here." [Kaoru Yamataya v. Fisher, 189 U.S. 86 (1903)]





Wong Wing v. United States (1896)


Citing Yick Wo v. Hopkins, the Court, in the case of Wong Wing v. United States, further applied the citizenship-blind nature of the Constitution to the 5th and 6th amendments, stating ". . . it must be concluded that all persons within the territory of the United States are entitled to the protection guaranteed by those amendments, and that even aliens shall not be held to answer for a capital or other infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law."








Plyler v. Doe (1982)


In Plyler v. Doe, the Supreme Court struck down a Texas law prohibiting enrollment of illegal aliens in public school. In its decision, the Court held, "The illegal aliens who are plaintiffs in these cases challenging the statute may claim the benefit of the Equal Protection Clause, which provides that no State shall 'deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.' Whatever his status under the immigration laws, an alien is a 'person' in any ordinary sense of that term… . The undocumented status of these children vel non does not establish a sufficient rational basis for denying them benefits that the State affords other residents."
 
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How about enforcing the 14th amendment as written.

Amendment XIV

Section 1.


All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


The amendment clearly states "any person within it's jurisdiction". That includes illegal immigrants, whether you like it or not. :flipoff2::stirthepot:


Yick Wo v. Hopkins (1886)



Wong Wing v. United States (1896)




Plyler v. Doe (1982)

Classic Gary.

Yes, that is the way the 14th Amendment has been interpreted, but that is not why it was written and ratified.

It is my opinion, and I share a growing consensus across a broad segment of society, that the 14th should be rescinded retroactively for all Illegal Aliens and that all Birthright Citizenship be rescinded retroactively.

So I repeat and reinforce: The 14th Amendment was written for and ratified for Black Slaves, who were brought to the US against their own free will, and who contributed to the growth of the US economy and State.

The Fourteenth Amendment (Amendment XIV) to the United States Constitution was adopted on July 9, 1868, as one of the Reconstruction Amendments. Arguably one of the most consequential amendments to this day, the amendment addresses citizenship rights and equal protection under the law and was proposed in response to issues related to former slaves following the American Civil War.

The 14th was not written for Illegal Aliens, and we should propose an Amendment rescinding the 14th for all Illegal Aliens.

Furthermore, a reinterpretation of the 14th is certainly due, and hopefully will become part of a Trump-appointed Court after he wins a 2nd Term.
 
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KEY words "subject to the jurisdiction thereof, "

Also define jurisdiction of the united states as the united states is a construct of the mind, and an incorporated entity so which united states listed in blacks 4th are they talking about ?

A corporation is the same as a legal fiction so it cant be defined in boundaries on land.
 
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Classic Gary.

Yes, that is the way the 14th Amendment has been interpreted, but that is not why it was written and ratified.

It is my opinion, and I share a growing consensus across a broad segment of society, that the 14th should be rescinded retroactively for all Illegal Aliens and that all Birthright Citizenship be rescinded retroactively.

So I repeat and reinforce: The 14th Amendment was written for and ratified for Black Slaves, who were brought to the US against their own free will, and who contributed to the growth of the US economy and State.



The 14th was not written for Illegal Aliens, and we should propose an Amendment rescinding the 14th for all Illegal Aliens.

Furthermore, a reinterpretation of the 14th is certainly due, and hopefully will become part of a Trump-appointed Court after he wins a 2nd Term.

Again, it's applied as it's written. It specifies "any person". Your opinion is irrelevant as it's SCOTUS that makes those decisions and not you. I'm forever greatful that it's SCOTUS making those rulings and not some idiot like you.
 
Again, it's applied as it's written. It specifies "any person". Your opinion is irrelevant as it's SCOTUS that makes those decisions and not you. I'm forever greatful that it's SCOTUS making those rulings and not some idiot like you.

The court in the past was big on the intent so it does have a bearing.

The LGBTQ decision was significant because the majority disregarded intent and focused on the direct text with modern interpretation of the words.
 
The court in the past was big on the intent so it does have a bearing.

The LGBTQ decision was significant because the majority disregarded intent and focused on the direct text with modern interpretation of the words.

You can't have it both ways, no matter how hard you try and "fold, spindle, & mutilate" it.
 
You can't have it both ways, no matter how hard you try and "fold, spindle, & mutilate" it.

I wasn’t aware I was trying to have it both ways? I think the way you approach the constitution is the intent.


If it’s just the words, do you need a Supreme court?

The court is there to establish the intent.

What did the founders intend when they wrote the 2nd amendment? The intent was clear. They wanted the citizens to have the weaponry necessary to rise up against a tyrannical government. That can be determined because it was written at a time where the people just had to rise up against a tyrannical government.

We have a legislative branch there to write new laws when situations change.

This is where the LGBT Decision matters. (just for the record I really don’t give a fuck about the LGBT decision but it’s significant).

I don’t think it’s controversial to say that when the original legislation was passed that they weren’t thinking about gays. So the court should be forced to rule with the intent.

Which isn’t a big deal because you have a legislative branch who can pass a new law and extend the protection.

With their ruling they made new law and they gave cover to the legislators who now don’t have to vote on anything.
 
Again, it's applied as it's written. It specifies "any person". Your opinion is irrelevant as it's SCOTUS that makes those decisions and not you. I'm forever greatful that it's SCOTUS making those rulings and not some idiot like you.

Your mistake is not considering the following:

We can change the interpretation by changing the composition of SCOTUS

So in fact we do make those decisions, we simply don't make the decisions directly.

That's what this entire Election is about, by the way, and I'm amazed that you can't grasp that.
 
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