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Scope for mini 30?

aron82 said:
Texas, are you backing up my statement or fed boy Stuck's statement?
The mini 14-30 is not and has never been capable of 4" groups at 200 yards.

Most ARs won't even shoot that.

If 2BB would post up his target at 100yards once his scope arrives, we can see factory accuracy of a mini 30.
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What kinda of crap AR are you shooting that wont shoot 4" groups at 200yds? My cheapest PSA 18" bbl AR with a cheap aftermarket trigger will shoot sub MOA groups. Maybe youre problem isnt the gun?
 
Texas97 said:
im with you on that i dislike a mini with a passion. minute of cow on a good day, was my experience with two different ones. i traded them off and went to an AR about 23 years ago.


your results may be better, who knows. i just know it wasnt for me. and i knew this long before there was a damn thing on the internet other than an AOL chatroom and a dial up connection.
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Like i said they arent tack drivers. Ammo choice plays a big part, too heavy too light, just like any gun find the ammo it likes. I wasnt trying to argue that theyre a precision rifle, theyre not.

I like them for the feel and the fun factor. I have a very nice wood and blued steel 14 and 30 that just have a great feel to them. I have honestly never shot one that was as bad as all the AR fan bois claim them to be, like not hitting a paper plate at 200yds. Even my folder with the welded muzzle will hit a paper plate at 200yds and its about as unaccurate as they come.
 
Stuck said:
Like i said they arent tack drivers. Ammo choice plays a big part, too heavy too light, just like any gun find the ammo it likes. I wasnt trying to argue that theyre a precision rifle, theyre not.

I like them for the feel and the fun factor. I have a very nice wood and blued steel 14 and 30 that just have a great feel to them. I have honestly never shot one that was as bad as all the AR fan bois claim them to be, like not hitting a paper plate at 200yds. Even my folder with the welded muzzle will hit a paper plate at 200yds and its about as unaccurate as they come.
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i wont certify or make any specific accuracy, or lack there-of, claims (like plate at 200 yards) but i felt mine were terrible shooters. i tried everything to make them work well, because i really wanted to love those guns, especially the 14.

traded the mini 14 off for a marlin lever in 357 at the Houston gunshow and was pleased because it shot much better than the mini, even at 100+ yards.

i think i sold the 30 outright.
 
Yes stuck, the 80s production mini 14s are that bad.
Remember your paper plate is 8 to 10 inches in diameter not 4".
I don't have any hate for the mini 14. Wouldn't mind having an a stainless one with a folder for doing a team shenanigans.
I invite you to post honest 200 yard targets with 5 round shot groups from your mini14 and mini 30.

I think you will be more informed about their accuracy on paper afterwards.
Certainly not saying they can't get the job done, just that they aren't that accurate.
 
Well at some time in the next couple weeks we will find out how accurate a shitty shooter is with a mini 30.
I was hoping paper plate at 200 was totally resonable and if not ill be disappointed.
 
aron82 said:
Yes stuck, the 80s production mini 14s are that bad.
Remember your paper plate is 8 to 10 inches in diameter not 4".
I don't have any hate for the mini 14. Wouldn't mind having an a stainless one with a folder for doing a team shenanigans.
I invite you to post honest 200 yard targets with 5 round shot groups from your mini14 and mini 30.

I think you will be more informed about their accuracy on paper afterwards.
Certainly not saying they can't get the job done, just that they aren't that accurate.
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The mini 30 wont count as its a newer one. Supposedly better accuracy. I will be happy to post honest target results. If Im wrong Im wrong but Im pretty sure my ranch is better lets say closer to 2 moa than paper plate moa. Like I said its killed lots of ground piggies at a distance. The folder is anyones guess.
 
An AR that can't hit 2MOA is a piece of junk

A mini14 or mini30 that can hit 2moa is doing pretty good. That action and locking system just isnt designed for consistency. Same reason I would recommend anyone who want the most accuracy to get an AR10 over a M1a. Sure the M1A is a classy broad but it will take far more money to hit the same level of accuracy as a $1000 AR10.


For the scope question - I'm a big fan of fixed power prisms on 7.62x39 guns. Its a simple, ruggged design for a simple rugged cartridge. 3x is my normal but 5x if most of your shooting is going to be pushing the upper end.
 
Kf4zht, most ars are capable of shooting 2 moa, but unless you have a good amount of magnification,a good rest and good ammo,you probably aren't going to consistently shoot 4"groups at 200 yards.
Most guys with a 16" or shorter ar with a red dot are lucky to get under 4" 5 shot groups at 100 yards.
 
aron82 said:
Kf4zht, most ars are capable of shooting 2 moa, but unless you have a good amount of magnification,a good rest and good ammo,you probably aren't going to consistently shoot 4"groups at 200 yards.
Most guys with a 16" or shorter ar with a red dot are lucky to get under 4" 5 shot groups at 100 yards.
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If youre talking actual rifle accuracy, it needs to be on a bench with a rest. Anything else is measuring how well you shoot not the rifle. You could give any of my PRS guns which are all sub .5 moa guns throw on a reddot and give it to some schmuck to shoot offhand at 200yds and not hit a paper plate. To suggest thats an accurate measure of a guns capability is just plain stupid. If thats what you were suggesting before than all of your prior statements are invalid.
 
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Stuck, we're talking about a mini 30 with a 1-6 lpvo. It's a far cry from a dedicated prs rifle.
To measure the true accuracy of the rifle it should be in a vice.
Half the guys shooting ars at the range I go to don't even use sandbags, that are free to use.
 
aron82 said:
Stuck, we're talking about a mini 30 with a 1-6 lpvo. It's a far cry from a dedicated prs rifle.
To measure the true accuracy of the rifle it should be in a vice.
Half the guys shooting ars at the range I go to don't even use sandbags, that are free to use.
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That was my point you made it sound in your last post like you were suggesting shooting offhand to measure the accuracy of the rifle.
 
aron82 said:
Stuck, we're talking about a mini 30 with a 1-6 lpvo. It's a far cry from a dedicated prs rifle.
To measure the true accuracy of the rifle it should be in a vice.
Half the guys shooting ars at the range I go to don't even use sandbags, that are free to use.
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It doesn't matter if its a 22 pistol or a prs rifle. There is the accuracy of the firearm and the accuracy of the shooter. When talking about guns it is understood you are talking about the accuracy of the firearm, not the shooter. When making fun of the shooter behind their back you should talk about the accuracy of the shooter.
 
Stuck said:
If youre talking actual rifle accuracy, it needs to be on a bench with a rest. Anything else is measuring how well you shoot not the rifle. You could give any of my PRS guns which are all sub .5 moa guns throw on a reddot and give it to some schmuck to shoot offhand at 200yds and not hit a paper plate. To suggest thats an accurate measure of a guns capability is just plain stupid. If thats what you were suggesting before than all of your prior statements are invalid.
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I've put an HK style front sight/hider on my early SS folder. That, in itself, made a huge difference as the stocker front sight blade was about as thick as a nickel. Have I ever put that rifle in a vise to test the accuracy? Nope. Do I use milsurp, Combloc, cheap, and handloads (all are 55 gr)? Yes. Can I hit a 8" gong, consistently, at a 100 yds? Yes, with a spread of ~3 inches using a piece of Styrofoam as a rest. Which is the better/poorer shooter, me or the gun? Who knows, too many variables not being measured or controlled (i.e., a lack of repeatability) Never had an driving interest to try anything farther out, don't want to look behind that curtain.

I can hit the same gong consistently at 300 yds with a National Match M1A on irons and using only my handloads. Again, with no gun vise. only the same piece of Styrofoam to rest it on. At a 100 yds the spread is slightly less than an inch if I can hold it steady enough.

I've never done any REAL empirical studies with either gun to determine their actual accuracy, and I'll bet most others haven't either...
 
FrankenToy said:
I've put an HK style front sight/hider on my early SS folder. That, in itself, made a huge difference as the stocker front sight blade was about as thick as a nickel. Have I ever put that rifle in a vise to test the accuracy? Nope. Do I use milsurp, Combloc, cheap, and handloads (all are 55 gr)? Yes. Can I hit a 8" gong, consistently, at a 100 yds? Yes, with a spread of ~3 inches using a piece of Styrofoam as a rest. Which is the better/poorer shooter, me or the gun? Who knows, too many variables not being measured or controlled (i.e., a lack of repeatability) Never had an driving interest to try anything farther out, don't want to look behind that curtain.

I can hit the same gong consistently at 300 yds with a National Match M1A on irons and using only my handloads. Again, with no gun vise. only the same piece of Styrofoam to rest it on. At a 100 yds the spread is slightly less than an inch if I can hold it steady enough.

I've never done any REAL empirical studies with either gun to determine their actual accuracy, and I'll bet most others haven't either...
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Well thats pretty much my point. How many people who say the mini is a shit shooter have ever actully shot it off a bench with a scope with decent ammo? Probably not many. For most people its a fun gun and they run the cheapest milsurp ammo through it. I actually have a decent scope on my ranch riifle. Nothing fancy but a good solid 3-9x scope with a decent reticle. Ive shot many ground piggies up to 200yds with it and a few deer, all neck shots all over 100yds. Like I said its not a super precise rifle but they arent the garbage some people claim.

Im hoping to get some rounds down range this week. Ive been running like crazy the last week and I have a couple deer Ive got to butcher up. I am curious, Im gonna shoot groups off of a bench with factory 55, 62, and 77gr haandloads at 100 and 200yds. Ive shot it before with 62gr at 100yds but I dont have the old targets anymore and I dont remember what the group size was.
 
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aron82 said:
Good lord baby Jesus you suck at reading comprehension.

I shoot just fine.
Read frankentoy's post 2 up and it's a good summation of accuracy shooting "modern sporting rifles".
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It's a good summation of how he doesn't bother trying for accuracy when he's out plinking. It has nothing to do with your bullshit claim that ARs cannot shoot 2 MOA or better at 200 yards.

Try again Scooter
 
Alright then jeeptard.
Grab your go to ar with the ammo you have and use for it. Go to the range set up a standard target at 200 yards with 1" gridsquares shoot a 5 round group and post up the results. You can use bags or a rest off the bench, but not a vice or lead sled.
Put up or shut up.
Practical accuracy in the real world is a lot different than range accuracy with tuned handloads and a giant scope on top.
 
aron82 said:
Alright then jeeptard.
Grab your go to ar with the ammo you have and use for it. Go to the range set up a standard target at 200 yards with 1" gridsquares shoot a 5 round group and post up the results. You can use bags or a rest off the bench, but not a vice or lead sled.
Put up or shut up.
Practical accuracy in the real world is a lot different than range accuracy with tuned handloads and a giant scope on top.
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And your point? My go to AR is my 18" 3 gun rifle with a 1-8x and a reddot on a 45° and it will shoot sub MOA all fucking day long off of bags. After all your blathering its become apparent you just need to learn how to shoot.

Not to mention we were talking about the actual accuracy of the rifle. Not your inability to shoot it. And like I said the specific Mini I spoke of was a 180xxxxx series with a 3-9x scope. Which is probably the most common type of scope in use in America. Its not some big 5-25x50 or bigger precision rifle scope.
 
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Well I still dont have my scope mounted but will probably get around to it and go to an actual range to get it dialed late next week.

Im also starting to think some of you guys suck at shooting. I consider my self a Novice at best and know practically 0 about guns... but if I can hit a paper plate 9/10 times standing with a $40 red dot on my budget AR at 130 yards some of you guys need help.

If I can get 4-6" groups at 200 yards with some sort of rest Ill be plenty happy.
 
aron82 said:
I shoot just fine and your mini 30 will be just fine for what you are doing.
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Uh yeah. Thats exactly what I was saying all along. Youre the one who said it couldnt hit a paper plate at 200 yds.
 
No you said 4" groups at 200 yards.
Paper plates are a whole lot bigger than 4"

Accuracy is different things to different people.
Everything from optics to ammo choice to the shooter factors into it.
I'm done trying to trying to beat sense into you.
 
aron82 said:
No you said 4" groups at 200 yards.
Paper plates are a whole lot bigger than 4"

Accuracy is different things to different people.
Everything from optics to ammo choice to the shooter factors into it.
I'm done trying to trying to beat sense into you.
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aron82 said:
Paper plate accuracy at 200 yards with a mini 14 or 30 is pretty optimistic.:flipoff2:
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Jesus christ youre just like a fucking liberal making up definitions as you go. Accuracy has a very specific definition. I dont give a rats ass what your "truth" is or what your acceptable degree of accuracy is.

Here is the definition from the dictionary
ac·cu·ra·cy
/ˈakyərəsē/
noun
the quality or state of being correct or precise

Apparently you are neither accurate in your shooting or communication skills.

Above is your post about "accuracy". "Paper plate accuracy is pretty optimistic at 200 yards." In english that means you would be lucky to have a group inside a paper plate at 200yds.

You as the shooter has dick all to do with the rifle being accurate. Accuracy in terms of a rifle means the rifle is able to consistantly hit the same spot using the same point of aim. Precision is the rifle being able to that point of aim. Now the degree of accuracy of the mini14, which is how close to the original point of impact subsequent rounds will hit, is what we were discussing. Whether it will group under 4" or 10". The fact that you cant consistantly hit a paper plate at 200 yards goes to what we said all along, its not the rifle, your shooting skills suck. The fact that you state most ARs cant shoot a 2moa group proves it.
 
If your rings are to low or the turrets are to sticky outie, the cases may hit the turrets. The Mini crowds solution is to turn the scope 90 degrees which is fucking stupid but hey.
I really liked my Mini 14 but really didn't care for the hit or miss ( heh heh, get it?) accuracy.
 
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