Samurai tcase thread

[YotaAtieToo]

Seems like the last thing that gets replaced in most sami's is the tcase. I still see even buggy type rigs with bigger motors, trans and axles, but often still the little Sami case.

Then others say they don't hold up to 32s. I'm curious who has actually broke one, what broke and what it took to break it. I think most will agree that the case it's self is a weak point, but seems to be mostly fixed by a spine type mount. Or if you want to drop some coin, the billet case.

What about out puts? Having one apart right now, they aren't actually much smaller than toyota out puts. But no one makes chromo versions.

Gear failure seems to happen, but usually is the China brand from what I've heard. The sumo gears from trail Tough seem to hold up a little better.

We could also do a similar thread to what I made at the old place on which gears for what set up, but it never seemed to really take off.

 

[DonnyBaja]

I just tore mine up this weekend so will see the outcome when I crack it open. My ride has stock 1.3 and trans. 6.5 gears mounted with the Mighty Kong. Adaptors to run yota drive shafts. Yota axles welded front and rear with 4.10 gears. Rolling on 35” falken wild peaks. I’m a poor fella so I’m hoping it’s just a rebuild and the gears are Ok. Will see...

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I just tore mine up this weekend so will see the outcome when I crack it open. My ride has stock 1.3 and trans. 6.5 gears mounted with the Mighty Kong. Adaptors to run yota drive shafts. Yota axles welded front and rear with 4.10 gears. Rolling on 35” falken wild peaks. I’m a poor fella so I’m hoping it’s just a rebuild and the gears are Ok. Will see...

Tore it up as in?

I feel like lower axle gears would help the poor tcase out a lot. Having all the reduction in the case is hard on them.

 

[DonnyBaja]

Started as a small tick last weekend grew to more of a knock by yesterday and today it was trying to escape. Since 2wd is still ok I’m assuming front output bearing failed and shaft is wobbly. I just got home and it’s in the driveway waiting for another day

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Started as a small tick last weekend grew to more of a knock by yesterday and today it was trying to escape. Since 2wd is still ok I’m assuming front output bearing failed and shaft is wobbly. I just got home and it’s in the driveway waiting for another day

That's possible. Hopefully it didn't wallow out the housing. Even if it did, at least it's only the small front piece.

Get the HD late model front output while you're in there.

 

[crazybluerider]

I had a zuk buggy with a 16v, kicker 3 and 4.16 sami case. It had 39.5 iroks and 5.38 axle gears. I broke a few front outputs mostly being an idiot with the rear axle disengaged. I also broke three cases in half at the cross pin. I'm a bit of an idiot and tend to get into she'll go or she'll blow mode when there is an audience. All failures were during full retard mode engage. I did install a spine after the first case failure and it took a lot more beating to create the two later failures. If you are a throttle jockey they are a weak link for sure but I rarely broke one while crawling with finesse.

This was the first case failure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmGfymY9krg

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I had a zuk buggy with a 16v, kicker 3 and 4.16 sami case. It had 39.5 iroks and 5.38 axle gears. I broke a few front outputs mostly being an idiot with the rear axle disengaged. I also broke three cases in half at the cross pin. I'm a bit of an idiot and tend to get into she'll go or she'll blow mode when there is an audience. All failures were during full retard mode engage. I did install a spine after the first case failure and it took a lot more beating to create the two later failures. If you are a throttle jockey they are a weak link for sure but I rarely broke one while crawling with finesse.

This was the first case failure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmGfymY9krg

I wonder if running just a 6.x case would have held up better? My buddy had a similar rig but had stock gears in the Sami case. It seemed to help with breakage putting lower gears in the rear case.

I had another buddy running an 8v with a kicker 3 type set up to a 6.5 case. He ran d44s with 37 stickies to 47 ltb's. Broke lots of 44 shit, but never the case. Ended up with a 60/14b and 44s. Never actually broke the little case.

Obviously I know they aren't bomb proof, but I think they are stronger than people give them credit. Especially for their size and weight.

I broke 2 toyota case out puts with 37s and not even being a throttle jockey. I feel like the strength difference without all the chromo parts is marginal.

 

[Wilson]

The “HD” outputs are not cromo? I never looked that deeply, just assumed? Having been through many rigs, the same rules apply. Axle gears help undersized cases live. When my Toyota crew all started going wonton crazy, they dumped their coin in tcase gearing and doublers, while running 4.10’s and 42’s. The t case carnage was wide open; outputs, gear sets and case housings. Once they started to run deeper axle gears, the breakage was less.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

The “HD” outputs are not cromo? I never looked that deeply, just assumed? Having been through many rigs, the same rules apply. Axle gears help undersized cases live. When my Toyota crew all started going wonton crazy, they dumped their coin in tcase gearing and doublers, while running 4.10’s and 42’s. The t case carnage was wide open; outputs, gear sets and case housings. Once they started to run deeper axle gears, the breakage was less.

No, it's just an updated front out put. There are no options for the rear output.

We all had the same experience. Mostly outputs, and a few in puts. Even low and slow Marty, who wheeled for years at JV, Moon rocks, Fordyce, wherever in his beat 4runner on 42s with 4.10s broke his rear output. He never did tear the stock steering box off the bone stock mount with no hydro assist though.

On the other end of the spectrum, Larry put 7.17s in his and ran 42-49s for 10 years with no issues on plane toyota duals.

 

[Adamwende]

Yep. Deep gear axles are the key. My brother runs 7.17s, and have broke just about every in the axles, and he only broke a set of trailgear gear sets.

He’s 16v, 4 speed auto, 6.5 case, and steering 60s with 7.17s. He runs a simple later style cradle, utilizing the stock mounts, and he captured the back side of the input. (Drill and tapped the four holes)

It does not make sense what the cases put up with.

 

[No way]

I've broken a bunch of them. Almost all as a result of me bellying hard on a rock right on the transfer case cradle. Some due to landing on the front drive shaft, breaking the front output housing and gear.
Cases are simple and stupid strong for what they are. The weak point is the housing and mounting points. Build a good cradle type mount that won't allow the housing to crack open and they will take insane amounts of abuse.

 

[PointsNorth]

1986 lwb

I broke one case with 6.5 gears beefed tcase arms and rubber mounts while running 410 gears in toy axles on 33 inch tsl boggers and only the rear locked.

re geared to 5.29s and locked both axles and went with 35 inch ltbs broke a front output and broke a rear case half

rebuilt the tcase with all new bearings and shims with original 6.5 gears from trail mart. added a spine with full skid and tied into all four holes at the rear output. then i solid mounted it with two inch aluminum round stock instead of the oem rubber mounts. beefed the frame mounts. moved the front axle forward four inches to get a better ds angle and then I upped the tire size to 36s beat the crap out of that for three years until i sold it with no issues

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I've broken a bunch of them. Almost all as a result of me bellying hard on a rock right on the transfer case cradle. Some due to landing on the front drive shaft, breaking the front output housing and gear.
Cases are simple and stupid strong for what they are. The weak point is the housing and mounting points. Build a good cradle type mount that won't allow the housing to crack open and they will take insane amounts of abuse.

I've always thought the tcase skids that were hard mounted to the aluminum tcase in sami's and toyotas were a bad idea because of this.

 

[crisbee1]

A properly shimmed output (full engagement) will last a good long time, aftermarket china outputs are thicker so shimming isn't as important. I use a Jap oem output, shimmed. I haven't seen it since I installed it in 05'. Like head bolts, I verify torque on my case hardware when I change the gear oil.
https://suzuki.roadlessgear.com/samurai-shims-for-transfer-case-5'
I have tried poly, hard plastic and hinged t-case mounts, they all contributed to walloring frame mount holes. I repaired the holes and went back to Stock jap oem mounts and a tt bucket. I also added a tt full skid plate, buckets and cradles can't tolerate turtled on a rock fun.
6:1, 4:88's, 33"s lunchbox front, nitro spool rear, toy's.

 

[No way]

I've always thought the tcase skids that were hard mounted to the aluminum tcase in sami's and toyotas were a bad idea because of this.

Yeah, you want a skid/cradle that actually surrounds the case so it won't spread open on impact. After I added an extra brace on my skid going over the top of the case I have had way less troubles.
I've seen eurotrialers building exo skeleton type braces for the cases utilizing almost every possible bolt hole on the case. No chance any external impact force can rip them apart.

 

[DirtRoads]

So I have a 1.6 16v, 6.5 trail gear tcase gears, an early low range EOS cradle, homemade tcase mount arms at the frame, home made poly mounts that are through bolted with like a 1/2 or 9/16 bolts, and 4.10 diff gears in toys on 37" tires.

I wheeled it on 32's with Zook axles and stock diff gears for a long time without any issues and full disregard for parts longevity. I finished this stage of the build this spring and have wheeled the shit out of it all summer/fall/winter and so far so good. I am not easy on it at all. I definitely need lower axle gears anyway, and I'd like to knock them out ASAP for the tcase's sake. Every neutral drop has me a little nervous, I'm just very careful about not letting it bounce around too much or slide back downhill into a high traction spot at WOT. I also try not to drive through a spot that I'm totally bound up, I'll adjust my line a little bit.

Some of my success thus far is probably associated with my fairly low ride height and slight stretch. I think that having a flatter driveshaft angle will probably help everything out, but that may just be in my head. I do have a friend who kept breaking front output housings because his driveshaft would bind when the suspension drooped out, so make sure that doesn't happen.. I also bolt check the tcase and cradle mounting hardware before every ride and have found them to be loose several times.

I'm having trouble deciding between a 4.88 and 5.29. I want to go 5.29 almost exclusively because it will be good for everything upstream, I just also really want to maintain the ability to cruise down the highway.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

So I have a 1.6 16v, 6.5 trail gear tcase gears, an early low range EOS cradle, homemade tcase mount arms at the frame, home made poly mounts that are through bolted with like a 1/2 or 9/16 bolts, and 4.10 diff gears in toys on 37" tires.

I wheeled it on 32's with Zook axles and stock diff gears for a long time without any issues and full disregard for parts longevity. I finished this stage of the build this spring and have wheeled the shit out of it all summer/fall/winter and so far so good. I am not easy on it at all. I definitely need lower axle gears anyway, and I'd like to knock them out ASAP for the tcase's sake. Every neutral drop has me a little nervous, I'm just very careful about not letting it bounce around too much or slide back downhill into a high traction spot at WOT. I also try not to drive through a spot that I'm totally bound up, I'll adjust my line a little bit.

Some of my success thus far is probably associated with my fairly low ride height and slight stretch. I think that having a flatter driveshaft angle will probably help everything out, but that may just be in my head. I do have a friend who kept breaking front output housings because his driveshaft would bind when the suspension drooped out, so make sure that doesn't happen.. I also bolt check the tcase and cradle mounting hardware before every ride and have found them to be loose several times.

I'm having trouble deciding between a 4.88 and 5.29. I want to go 5.29 almost exclusively because it will be good for everything upstream, I just also really want to maintain the ability to cruise down the highway.

4.10 to 4.88 isn't a huge jump for the money.

But I get what you're saying. 5.29s with the 1.7 high is pretty deep for 37s. Play with the marlin speed calculator. Measure from the center of your hub to the ground at street pressure x's2 to get your true diameter.

I've been going back and forth on the same shit with my 4runner. It's got 4.30s and 33s. Can't justify the cost for 4.30 to 4.88 but 5.29s are pretty deep for it.

 

[PointsNorth]

So I have a 1.6 16v, 6.5 trail gear tcase gears, an early low range EOS cradle, homemade tcase mount arms at the frame, home made poly mounts that are through bolted with like a 1/2 or 9/16 bolts, and 4.10 diff gears in toys on 37" tires.

I wheeled it on 32's with Zook axles and stock diff gears for a long time without any issues and full disregard for parts longevity. I finished this stage of the build this spring and have wheeled the shit out of it all summer/fall/winter and so far so good. I am not easy on it at all. I definitely need lower axle gears anyway, and I'd like to knock them out ASAP for the tcase's sake. Every neutral drop has me a little nervous, I'm just very careful about not letting it bounce around too much or slide back downhill into a high traction spot at WOT. I also try not to drive through a spot that I'm totally bound up, I'll adjust my line a little bit.

Some of my success thus far is probably associated with my fairly low ride height and slight stretch. I think that having a flatter driveshaft angle will probably help everything out, but that may just be in my head. I do have a friend who kept breaking front output housings because his driveshaft would bind when the suspension drooped out, so make sure that doesn't happen.. I also bolt check the tcase and cradle mounting hardware before every ride and have found them to be loose several times.

I'm having trouble deciding between a 4.88 and 5.29. I want to go 5.29 almost exclusively because it will be good for everything upstream, I just also really want to maintain the ability to cruise down the highway.

i daily drove my 86lwb with 36 inch tires 6.5 tcase gears and 5.29s and 55mph as north of 3000rpm with the 1.6 . the 86 im building now will get a 2.0 and 4.10s to start as i want to see if I need to jump to 5.29 with 36inch tires

 

[YotaAtieToo]

i daily drove my 86lwb with 36 inch tires 6.5 tcase gears and 5.29s and 55mph as north of 3000rpm with the 1.6 . the 86 im building now will get a 2.0 and 4.10s to start as i want to see if I need to jump to 5.29 with 36inch tires

Quick marlin entry showed 55 @ ~3400 RPM with 4.88s and 3700 RPM with 5.29s. This was using 0.80 od. Could be different depending on the trans.

Part of the reason I like the 6.4 gears. *only* 17% reduction

 

[PointsNorth]

stupid auto correct it was supposed to say was far north of 3000 rpm 3600 -3700 sounds about right

 

[DirtRoads]

4.10 to 4.88 isn't a huge jump for the money.

But I get what you're saying. 5.29s with the 1.7 high is pretty deep for 37s. Play with the marlin speed calculator. Measure from the center of your hub to the ground at street pressure x's2 to get your true diameter.

I've been going back and forth on the same shit with my 4runner. It's got 4.30s and 33s. Can't justify the cost for 4.30 to 4.88 but 5.29s are pretty deep for it.

Yeah I need like a 5.0 gear or something . The 1.6 would probably hold up just fine at 4krpm at 65. I need to decide my engine/trans/tcase final install before committing to gears. I've gone back and forth on 2.0/2.3, 3rz, 1.6 turbo, and diesel.

My 1.6 needs a rebuild badly, and most of the decision on what to do with it is determined by how well the transfer case holds up (see, this post is related to the thread ). The build is a UA style streetable rig that can handle big rock trails without breaking.

 

[crisbee1]

"I've gone back and forth on 2.0/2.3, 3rz, 1.6 turbo, and diesel."

2.0 is a finicky interference motor, getting the timing chain monkey motion bullshit just right is imperative.

3rz is indestructable I had a 2rz in a buggy, way to heavy for a Sami.

Diesel, never matches up well with other rigs, you will be at the back of the line crawling cause no one wants to breath your stinky exhaust.

 

[woods]

#1 issue I had with my rig. I tore out every mounting hole and bracket in the thing. The Snatch I guess is the fix. I parted my rig out before I got one installed. But yea, every bolt hole attaching the case to the rig was torn out.

1.3, 6.5s, 5.29s, Toys, 35s @ 0psi

 

[Wilson]

#1 issue I had with my rig. I tore out every mounting hole and bracket in the thing. The Snatch I guess is the fix. I parted my rig out before I got one installed. But yea, every bolt hole attaching the case to the rig was torn out.

1.3, 6.5s, 5.29s, Toys, 35s @ 0psi

My snatch is ripping all of the stock frame mounts off, that’s next on my list.

 

[woods]

My snatch is ripping all of the stock frame mounts off, that’s next on my list.

they did offer some attachment that welds over the stock mount to the frame. they highly recommended it.

My last trip out was at RMTP in Maine and t/c was flopping around. I'd give it the gas and it'd just rotate up into the floorboards.

 

[Wilson]

I got mine new, but second hand. I’ll just re-design them and plate the frame while I’m at it.

 

[JR4X]

4.9 trail tough gears and something got broken with shift forks or detents in rails. My rig but I wasn't in it at the time, dad is driving in a silt bed near Fallon NV. The anemic 8V doesn't have the power to turn 30's in high with 5.13's and the 1.609 high range reduction of the t-case, but 4.9:1 is too low to get any wheel speed. They finally get to where the silt is only about 4" deep instead of 1 foot and dad tells the passenger to shift it to high from low when he puts it in neutral. Pass doesn't wait for neutral and bangs out of low and that was that. The t-case went into neutral and the shifter wouldn't move. They were able to pull the shifter and rotate the front shift shaft rail and get it back into 4 low but it wouldn't go into high. They drove it 38 stuck in 4.9:1 low at about 10 mph in 110 degree desert heat. (side note) It was running hot so they rolled down the windows and turned the heater on full blast to help it out. The heater vents got so hot the dash melted and sagged.

Passenger took the case apart and put it back together. Got it where it will shift but now it won't stay in gear, no amount of force on the shifter will hold it in any gear without it popping out.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

#1 issue I had with my rig. I tore out every mounting hole and bracket in the thing. The Snatch I guess is the fix. I parted my rig out before I got one installed. But yea, every bolt hole attaching the case to the rig was torn out.

1.3, 6.5s, 5.29s, Toys, 35s @ 0psi

That's pretty much a given with anything much lower than 4:1

 

[YotaAtieToo]

4.9 trail tough gears and something got broken with shift forks or detents in rails. My rig but I wasn't in it at the time, dad is driving in a silt bed near Fallon NV. The anemic 8V doesn't have the power to turn 30's in high with 5.13's and the 1.609 high range reduction of the t-case, but 4.9:1 is too low to get any wheel speed. They finally get to where the silt is only about 4" deep instead of 1 foot and dad tells the passenger to shift it to high from low when he puts it in neutral. Pass doesn't wait for neutral and bangs out of low and that was that. The t-case went into neutral and the shifter wouldn't move. They were able to pull the shifter and rotate the front shift shaft rail and get it back into 4 low but it wouldn't go into high. They drove it 38 stuck in 4.9:1 low at about 10 mph in 110 degree desert heat. (side note) It was running hot so they rolled down the windows and turned the heater on full blast to help it out. The heater vents got so hot the dash melted and sagged.

Passenger took the case apart and put it back together. Got it where it will shift but now it won't stay in gear, no amount of force on the shifter will hold it in any gear without it popping out.

What did the shift gears look like? I'd imagine that had to have fucked up the teeth.

 

[JR4X]

I don't know, it's gotta come back out and I'll do it this time.