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Rust Bucket 1st Gen Taco build thread

Big picture, what am I looking at to make this thing better?

Obviously the correct (heavier) spring rates should help reduce body roll.

I'm going to look at how I could cram a swaybar in the front, but that seems like a bandaid more than a solution.

Ultimately I think Beat95yj is right about it being a geometry issue. The lower links are fairly short for how tall the truck is, so they're not parallel to the ground, and as the body rolls, there is some pretty significant fwd/aft movement of the axle relative to the body. For a lot of reasons I don't have the bandwidth to basically start from scratch with the front end, so I'm not sure I can do a whole lot about geometry.
 
The upper spring can be treated as a tender if needed. Just adjust the dual rate adjuster to use the lower at ride height. See if that makes any difference. It’s another bandaid, but it will help eliminate spring rate issue for testing.

I’d be curious if anyone ever ran the AllPro kit through the 3-link calc?
 
rockota said:
The upper spring can be treated as a tender if needed. Just adjust the dual rate adjuster to use the lower at ride height. See if that makes any difference. It’s another bandaid, but it will help eliminate spring rate issue for testing.

I’d be curious if anyone ever ran the AllPro kit through the 3-link calc?
Click to expand...
You’re saying set the dual rate nut so the cup is against it at ride height?

I punched in my measurements a few months back, it’s garbage but I also am fairly inexperienced (obviously) so I’m not sure how to interpret some of the results to gauge if they make sense. It’s in treefrogs thread
 
Your panhard bar looks to be about 6" shorter than the drag link. This is not helping. The short arms are giving axle steer when it articulates. Fixing the panhard bar mounts would solve a lot of your steering issues.

Running the secondary spring stops down will definitely reduce body roll. Just make sure you're not going to put the lowers into coil bind.

Without knowing the valving in the shocks, it's kinda hard to make recommendations. You have a lot of little issues combining into a big issue.
 
thezentree said:
You’re saying set the dual rate nut so the cup is against it at ride height?

I punched in my measurements a few months back, it’s garbage but I also am fairly inexperienced (obviously) so I’m not sure how to interpret some of the results to gauge if they make sense. It’s in treefrogs thread
Click to expand...


Basically, yea… let the lower spring bear all of the weight and yank all (most) of the preload off the upper spring.

If that changes anything, it will at least help identify if the overall spring rate is jacked.

Again, it’s still just a bandaid.

Can you lower the overall height of the truck? Get the links closer to parallel.

I ran mine with a total of probably less than 4” of overall lift.
 
bdkw1 said:
Your panhard bar looks to be about 6" shorter than the drag link. This is not helping. The short arms are giving axle steer when it articulates. Fixing the panhard bar mounts would solve a lot of your steering issues.

Running the secondary spring stops down will definitely reduce body roll. Just make sure you're not going to put the lowers into coil bind.

Without knowing the valving in the shocks, it's kinda hard to make recommendations. You have a lot of little issues combining into a big issue.
Click to expand...

I’ll have to push my frame side panhard mount way outside the frame to get it anywhere close to equal length, which puts the center of the drag link arc and panhard arc in different places. Is that going to replace one issue with another, or is that a minor problem compared to what I’ve got now?

rockota said:
Basically, yea… let the lower spring bear all of the weight and yank all (most) of the preload off the upper spring.

If that changes anything, it will at least help identify if the overall spring rate is jacked.

Again, it’s still just a bandaid.

Can you lower the overall height of the truck? Get the links closer to parallel.

I ran mine with a total of probably less than 4” of overall lift.
Click to expand...

I’ll try that next time I get a chance to work on it.

I can lower it a little bit but not nearly enough to make the links flatter. Right now I’ve got about 3.5-4” of uptravel before the panhard bar gets into the upper link mount on the diff. Moving the frame side panhard mount like bdkw1 suggested gives me the opportunity to add a little more clearance but there’s not a much room under the truck, unfortunately.
 
Not having the frame side pivot inline with the pitman arm isn't a big deal as long as it maintains the same angle and length as the drag link. Is it perfect? No. Will it matter? No. Will it better than the current mount? Yes.
 
In a perfect world, you would have a front swing box to move the drag link forward and then the panhard bar could move forward and miss the diff.
 
This is a question I am trying to answer. I have a kid on the way, a bunch of projects around the house that need to be done, and a wife who is running out of patience with this. Had I known it was going to be this much of a project, I absolutely would not have bought the truck. I'm wayyyyy over budget and it seems like I'm going to need to throw more money and a whole lot more time at it to make it usable.
 
thezentree said:
This is a question I am trying to answer. I have a kid on the way, a bunch of projects around the house that need to be done, and a wife who is running out of patience with this. Had I known it was going to be this much of a project, I absolutely would not have bought the truck. I'm wayyyyy over budget and it seems like I'm going to need to throw more money and a whole lot more time at it to make it usable.
Click to expand...

this would be my path forward if i was you
  • pull the springs off the shocks, drop it to full bump, see whats in the way of things and see what needs to be moved to get the most uptravel
  • Chassis Link Brackets (Pair) scab these on the frame moving them inboard of the frame ~2-3" reinforce them like the 4wu stuff.
  • once the frame side mounts are moved, id move the outer lower links as close to the knuckle as possible
  • shorten up the upper link a little bit to keep things happy during droop
  • cut n turn the knuckles for some caster at ride height while keeping the pinion happy
  • dealers choice on the next one
- Y Link Steering Using GM 1 Ton TRE convert to a y link and a drop pitman arm to get the draglink/trackbar alignment and length corrected​
- build the track back mount on the axle side up over the steering arm/knuckle to get them close to the same length, youll probably need put a nice bend in the draglink to clear things​


i strongly disagree with the person who talked you into a 14" shock. you went from a short body 12" shock to a long body shock with 2" more travel so if i was to WAG it bet the 14" fox is 4.5" longer than the walker you took off. so if you are matching the shock shaft showing before, your suspension links are a long way from flat (id love to see a side shot at ride height. you appear to be super tall based on the tire/wheel well location from the lunch picture). the way to resolve this would be to rebuild the shock mounts OR convert them to a 12" shock. i am of the opinion that for a full bodied trail rig, at 12" shock is more than sufficient. beyond that the body gets in the way to much to have a decent ride height.
 
Chkn said:
Time to swap to leafs :flipoff2:
Click to expand...
You joke but I’m 95% of the way there.

mobil1syn said:
this would be my path forward if i was you
  • pull the springs off the shocks, drop it to full bump, see whats in the way of things and see what needs to be moved to get the most uptravel
  • Chassis Link Brackets (Pair) scab these on the frame moving them inboard of the frame ~2-3" reinforce them like the 4wu stuff.
  • once the frame side mounts are moved, id move the outer lower links as close to the knuckle as possible
  • shorten up the upper link a little bit to keep things happy during droop
  • cut n turn the knuckles for some caster at ride height while keeping the pinion happy
  • dealers choice on the next one
- Y Link Steering Using GM 1 Ton TRE convert to a y link and a drop pitman arm to get the draglink/trackbar alignment and length corrected​
- build the track back mount on the axle side up over the steering arm/knuckle to get them close to the same length, youll probably need put a nice bend in the draglink to clear things​


i strongly disagree with the person who talked you into a 14" shock. you went from a short body 12" shock to a long body shock with 2" more travel so if i was to WAG it bet the 14" fox is 4.5" longer than the walker you took off. so if you are matching the shock shaft showing before, your suspension links are a long way from flat (id love to see a side shot at ride height. you appear to be super tall based on the tire/wheel well location from the lunch picture). the way to resolve this would be to rebuild the shock mounts OR convert them to a 12" shock. i am of the opinion that for a full bodied trail rig, at 12" shock is more than sufficient. beyond that the body gets in the way to much to have a decent ride height.
Click to expand...

I don’t disagree with you but if I’m going to do all that I might as well just start over with the 3 link and cut the frame off at the firewall, right?

The choice for the 14s was based on the existing mounts and ride height it needs for reasonable uptravel. 12s would have had a good chunk of the shock travel past where the panhard started hitting everything, and left me with like 2-3” of droop. 14s give me way more droop than I need, but I’d still have a little under an inch of shock travel at full bump. I’d have stuck with 12s had I know I’d be cutting stuff.

Honestly, shackle forward leaf springs seem really appealing to me right given the realistic amount of time I have before the kid comes. It’s not the perfect solution but it makes the truck usable until I have time later in life to do something else.

I’m gonna mess with the dual rate adjusters first but if that doesn’t make it better, would it be totally retarded to go with leafs given my time constraints?

Side pic from before I messed with the front end but it’s basically the same:

IMG_6758.jpeg
 
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thezentree said:
I don’t disagree with you but if I’m going to do all that I might as well just start over with the 3 link and cut the frame off at the firewall, right?
Click to expand...

why? this was my short lived tacoma with a stock frame. plenty of room for up travel. it had 16"s and that was fundentallyretarded. the front axle was pushed forward 1-2" and notch in the oil pan for the diff.

1727714358996.png


1727714718076.png


the upper frame side was at the body mount, drivetrain was in the stock location so the lowers were at the back of the trans
1727714381560.png
 
mobil1syn said:
why? this was my short lived tacoma with a stock frame. plenty of room for up travel. it had 16"s and that was fundentallyretarded. the front axle was pushed forward 1-2" and notch in the oil pan for the diff.

1727714358996.png


1727714718076.png


the upper frame side was at the body mount, drivetrain was in the stock location so the lowers were at the back of the trans
1727714381560.png
Click to expand...
Where did your panhard bar live in all of that? The most obvious hangup for a lower ride height for me is the panhard hits everything. With even compression, it hits the top of the diff, and with the passenger side stuffed it hits the oil pan. I might be able to gain a little bit by moving the frame side lower and adding a bend over the diff. But then I've got these stupid 14" shocks lol... Steering is thankfully not looking like it'll get in the way.

I played with the calculator some and it looks like lowering it will help (obviously) but unless I'm not looking at the right numbers (roll slope and roll center) there's not much change from moving the lower link frame mounts inboard. The rod ends are already fully inside the frame rails, so moving them more inboard seems like it'd be getting into crossmember territory, and it'd be a rock anchor to clear the front driveshaft.

I MIGHT have time Thursday to play with the dual rate slider stops, but if not then it'll be two weeks from now before I have time to even look at it.:rainbow:
 
behind the steering
1727843262122.png


1727843406033.png


1727844440303.png


1727844611227.png



this is from the rebuild of mark matthews (RIP turtletruck) 1st gen 4runner, we replaced the front of the frame because it was breaking off.
1727842963836.png


1727843016138.png


1727843043704.png


just a little wiggle on thick walled tube
1727843163949.png


random one from the old harddrive, labelled mossy
1727843758952.png
 
thezentree i will add that i would consider lifting the motor about an inch or so before getting to caught up in notching or rebuilding the frame or oil pan.

also for reference mark matthews was a 2.0x12 with 1" of preload, 12x150 over 14x300.
 
Lifting the engine makes sense.

Running only the lower springs helps but it still wanders pretty bad. I talked to a fab shop in town about trying to make it better (taller shock hoops and make the Panhard fit for a lower ride height, and maybe a rear sway bar) but I’m not sure I want to put that much money into it just to pay the guy for his time.

Then I blew a brake line while I was test driving it around town a little while ago. It’s like it wants to get parted out.

I’m going on vacation and leaving this shit pile alone for the next week and a half. I hope it burns while I’m gone, and if not, hopefully I have a better attitude towards it when I get back.
 
Gotta love the "i'm trying to do this on a budget" being met with "cut the entire front end off and start over." :flipoff2::flipoff2:
 
Also just noticed this. Is this a normal amount of play?
 
rockota said:
Gotta love the "i'm trying to do this on a budget" being met with "cut the entire front end off and start over." :flipoff2::flipoff2:
Click to expand...
You’ll notice I’m whining about setting it on fire instead of firing up the grinder :flipoff2:
 
I mean I figured out Home Depot sells it in bulk for cheaper than the parts stores and has free delivery so I use it like the boss bought it :homer:

I can’t help but think about this thing. I mounted one of the 37s yesterday as a pickmeup and it kinda helped me hate it a little less. Yesterday I lowered it about an inch when I set it on the dual rate nut, so between a slightly lower ride height and stiffer springs it seemed to be a lot more controllable. I also tightened the steering box a little bit (like half a turn) but haven’t had a chance to drive it since I blew a brake line. I’m hoping that helps, because the steering wheel had like 30-35 degrees of play in it.

This seem like a reasonable path forward?
  • stiffer springs
  • rework the Panhard to make it longer and allow a lower ride height
  • rear sway bar (TK1 is pretty cheap)

I might end up eating the cost of some 12” shocks if I can lower it significantly but I’ll cross that bridge when I get to it.

Everyone likes pics:

IMG_6802.jpeg
 
Yall help me figure out what the spring rate for this truck should be. With it on jack stands and level, roughly at ride height, and the sliders against the stopper nuts, the 16” 225lbs lower springs are compressed to 12-3/16” drivers side and 12-9/16” passenger. That should mean my sprung weight is 860lbs driver and 775lbs passenger. Accutune estimated 945 D and 875 P.


Current springs are 14” 125lbs upper, 16” 225lbs lower.
 
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