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PWC expeditions?

scooter2374 said:
Yeah we could make it down river and out around Sandy Hook and play on the beach for a short bit before having to head back, doubly worse because it was a 2 stroke so unless you brought some oil with you you could not stop at one of the marinas to fuel up.
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Yeah the two stroke machines literally burn twice the amount of fuel (imagine that :laughing:). The difference is pretty stark if you ever run two side by side for any distance, especially since the 4 stroke machine makes probably double the power.

evernoob said:
Every planing hull has a minimum planing speed which someone playing on a PWC is going to exceed within 30 seconds. PWC come out of the water pretty fast so it's clear that this speed is well, well below play speed.
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Minimum planing speed and the most efficient cruising speed will not be the same number.

I've done about 100 miles on a ski in one day. Not planning on doing that ever again.
 
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DirtRoads said:
Yeah the two stroke machines literally burn twice the amount of fuel (imagine that :laughing:). The difference is pretty stark if you ever run two side by side for any distance, especially since the 4 stroke machine makes probably double the power.



Minimum planing speed and the most efficient cruising speed will not be the same number.

I've done about 100 miles on a ski in one day. Not planning on doing that ever again.
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Exactly. Fun for awhile but when youre trying to get somewhere its like riding a MX bike through the whoops for a 100 miles its brutal unless its like glass. Which it never is if you need to go. I wanna see everdouche roll 50 miles down the coast in 2 foot rollers.

No thanks if Im running the coast or any distance either give me a big deep V with a flare, a big cruiser or a trawler. Fuck a PWC theyre for dicking around on.
 
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I think a long river trip could be fun. Salt water? Fuck that. Anything other than glass and you're basically doing the Baja1000 on uncle Bobby's Rancher 350.
 
any motorized expedition revolves around fuel, all watercraft are on the low end of mpg, find enough fuel stops within range of each other and youre good to go

as for towing a second pwc, im pretty sure it wont plane out, you have to remember you'd be towing it from the lowest point of the tow pwc to the mid point of the towed pwc (front hull hook)

on top of that i doubt those anchor points could handle that much stress, now that im thinking about it
 
Murse said:
Somebody has never towed a boat before. The boat being towed will have a mind of its own.
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Needs a bridle and longer rope. If tow rope is 10x length of boat getting towed then she will track straight
 
DirtRoads said:
Minimum planing speed and the most efficient cruising speed will not be the same number.
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The fuel curve is tends linear on all planing hulls that are planing. That's really the point. PWC holeshot really well which means their planing speed is very low, I don't see much or any exploration of how low that is.

Another solution might be to hydroplane the tow, or maybe even the PWC. If you set a tow target range of 25-50mph, you'd make very comfortable time.
 
Murse said:
Somebody has never towed a boat before. The boat being towed will have a mind of its own.
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There are solutions to this as I talked about (assumed) in the OP. Pleasure craft towing another pleasure craft via bollards and cleats randomly placed so that they don't interfere with the waterproof subwoofer and cupholders are going to tow very oddly. You are almost always towing a planing hull in displacement so I'd say that 99.99% of all pleasure boaters who've towed don't know the first thing about towing. Obviously a planing hull being towed by a cock-eyed cleat in displacement is going to wander a bit :laughing:

A planing or hydroplane tow is easily possible and it's been done before.

I don't know why everyone is freaking out, this is not that hard of a problem and it's been solved a million times. :confused:
 
only one way to find out. I wouldnt do it...

On a side note. I work part time at a small family run marina. We have a field with at least a dozes PWC's in it with cracked hulls. They just arent meant for that heavy use.
 
evernoob said:
There are solutions to this as I talked about (assumed) in the OP. Pleasure craft towing another pleasure craft via bollards and cleats randomly placed so that they don't interfere with the waterproof subwoofer and cupholders are going to tow very oddly. You are almost always towing a planing hull in displacement so I'd say that 99.99% of all pleasure boaters who've towed don't know the first thing about towing. Obviously a planing hull being towed by a cock-eyed cleat in displacement is going to wander a bit :laughing:

A planing or hydroplane tow is easily possible and it's been done before.

I don't know why everyone is freaking out, this is not that hard of a problem and it's been solved a million times. :confused:
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and now i realize your just trolling...:homer:

fawk you, i got halfway excited for "everboobs Mississippi river pwc 2 week adventure"
 
evernoob said:
The fuel curve is tends linear on all planing hulls that are planing. That's really the point. PWC holeshot really well which means their planing speed is very low, I don't see much or any exploration of how low that is.

Another solution might be to hydroplane the tow, or maybe even the PWC. If you set a tow target range of 25-50mph, you'd make very comfortable time.
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You are making it very clear that you have no idea what you are talking about. 25-50mph towing comfortably and saving fuel? GTFO.
 
evernoob said:
There are solutions to this as I talked about (assumed) in the OP. Pleasure craft towing another pleasure craft via bollards and cleats randomly placed so that they don't interfere with the waterproof subwoofer and cupholders are going to tow very oddly. You are almost always towing a planing hull in displacement so I'd say that 99.99% of all pleasure boaters who've towed don't know the first thing about towing. Obviously a planing hull being towed by a cock-eyed cleat in displacement is going to wander a bit :laughing:

A planing or hydroplane tow is easily possible and it's been done before.

I don't know why everyone is freaking out, this is not that hard of a problem and it's been solved a million times. :confused:
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How much seat time do you have on PWCs?
 
Funny, my friends and I had a 25% serious discussion on how feasible it would be to take my new at the time seadoo speedster to Hawaii towing my old boat full of fuel cans
 
I have an aquatrax 3 seater and I can get about an hour out of a 90L tank of premium fuel on good smooth water. Fun for pulling tubes around or dicking around for a while but I couldn't imagine trying to go for a long distance trip on one. I'd far rather take my canoe for that.
 
evernoob said:
Probably weeks. But I don't understand the nature of your question. You don't seem to understand the dynamics of watercraft so maybe you're confused.
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I have owned dozens and spent hundreds upon hundreds of hours on them. Everything from single seat racers to 4 person barges. I fully understand the dynamics more than enough to know you're full of shit. As usual.
 
Every now and then I watch youtube videos of people taking their bass boats in the ocean that make me start to think.... Then I go fishing on a windy day on the local lake and realize.... FUCK THAT.

Youtube is similar to web-MD, but for idiotic "can-doers". You see people go on these amazing adventures and they did it in a home made raft and floated the entire Mississippi for 2 weeks for less than $100. Don't worry, 99% of guys are guilty of following atleast one of these dumb youtube ideas. Because of youtube, I have a $129 M44 Mosin Nagant in my gun safe with about $1,000 worth of work done (if you include the optics) that wont hold a 6" 0 at 100 yards because the barrel is no good.....

PWC are fun for doing circles, riding with friends, cruising up narrow rivers on smooth days. However from the experience I've had with them, I couldn't imagine being one for an entire 8-10 hour day for consecutive days in a row.
 
Arickvan said:
any motorized expedition revolves around fuel, all watercraft are on the low end of mpg, find enough fuel stops within range of each other and youre good to go

as for towing a second pwc, im pretty sure it wont plane out, you have to remember you'd be towing it from the lowest point of the tow pwc to the mid point of the towed pwc (front hull hook)

on top of that i doubt those anchor points could handle that much stress, now that im thinking about it
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It will plane out and take the stress. Our three seater could pull a tube with two of us and a large guy on it no problem.

The issues as mentioned repeatedly are; fuel, comfort or exposure to elements and storage. Not to mention everdouche is justfucking stupid and cant even pay his rent. Towing another planing v hull on plane just causes more issues they tend to wander which will put even more stress on the rider. They do make hinged towed sleds for water rescue and the like. They also make sponsons that hook on to the hull some of which have storage. Both of those come with their own issues.

None of the above do anything to relieve the stress or exposure. Everdouche has obviously never ridden a pwc for any length of time. Or if he has it was on a small sheltered body of water where there is little to no wave action. Exploring or cruising around on a pwc is fun for a day or so. Maybe longer if your 20. Im a grown ass man I prefer adult toys.

We havent even talked about safety gear. Fucking things break down. Need a radio. What about directions? Do you know how to read ATONs? Your gonna need tount a chartplotter on your ski. What about lights and you cant put them on and use em if you did. You cant operate before sunrise or after sunset on a PWC. Need to plan where your stopping and hope you dont have issues getting there before dark. What about current or wind? Did you plan for that in your fuel management plan? Do you know your craft well enough to even have a fuel management plan? PWCs have a very small fuel range even my small 18' boat would run 150 miles on a tank. Boats are terrible on fuel jets are twice as bad. Ive run both prop and jet boats for long periods. Jets have their place it certainly isna cruising vessel. Youll spend as much on fuel for two pwcs as you would a 25 cruiser.
 
evernoob said:
There are solutions to this as I talked about (assumed) in the OP. Pleasure craft towing another pleasure craft via bollards and cleats randomly placed so that they don't interfere with the waterproof subwoofer and cupholders are going to tow very oddly. You are almost always towing a planing hull in displacement so I'd say that 99.99% of all pleasure boaters who've towed don't know the first thing about towing. Obviously a planing hull being towed by a cock-eyed cleat in displacement is going to wander a bit :laughing:

A planing or hydroplane tow is easily possible and it's been done before.

I don't know why everyone is freaking out, this is not that hard of a problem and it's been solved a million times. :confused:
Click to expand...

Ok do you have a towing endorsement on your Captains License? I do. You have no idea what youre talking about.
 
Arickvan said:
any motorized expedition revolves around fuel, all watercraft are on the low end of mpg, find enough fuel stops within range of each other and youre good to go

as for towing a second pwc, im pretty sure it wont plane out, you have to remember you'd be towing it from the lowest point of the tow pwc to the mid point of the towed pwc (front hull hook)

on top of that i doubt those anchor points could handle that much stress, now that im thinking about it
Click to expand...

Right, so modifications needed. Some type of structural enhancement for the tow, I'm thinking a strap of steel running back along the length of the hull and fiberglassed in. The tow is clean slate, and the only reason to use PWC hull is that a lot of the work is done.

Adapting a version of ocean-going tug apparatus seems doable. Or outside marine applications, somewhere out there is a cable drum with a mainspring inside of it that can pay out meters of tow line and return it damped to a default position with no power input at all. There has to be a thousand ways to go at that.

Also out there are the equivalent of a PWC small block chevy and impeller pump and all that crap.

Nobody seems to be hypermiling a PWC either. Everyone here has nursed a hundred half-assed machines home on fumes. Fuel metering vs distance travelled is off-the-shelf at this point. I'd think that within a couple of days you could plot out some way to preserve fuel economy. And as far as pump and motor matching goes, what's been offered by Manufs. isn't necessarily the best combination.

The biggest thing I see though is that PWC are set up for transient performance and there seems to be a LOT of engineering room there to take all those pieces and make a fuel-efficient machine with existing crap. I don't see why Cruise Control should be out of the question, seems like a smartphone, aftermarket box, arduino, or raspberry solution. Or mechanical things.

I think the 'Engineering' way to go at it is a governor mindset. Find some RPM that the power combo works in and work to maximize that little slice. The problem seems easier than making a PWC that will satisfy consumers from scratch. Because PWC seek (and accomplish) to please All Men, there is a ton of room there to narrow it to what I want: Sit on it with my hands on the handlebars not operating the throttle for 8 hours a day at the same RPM, with a minimum of surging and pulling.

Barring all of that, putting some type of powerplant into a home-built hull that hydroplanes doesn't seem ridiculously hard.

But I think it would be fun to do it as stock as possible, as in just a few modifications on used stuff and go. The way a solidaxle Toyota pickup back around 2000 was easily modifiable in a minimalist sense to make it this weirdly OP thing. Black pipe sliders, welded diffs, bent brake-line brackets, long shocks, Chevy (better yet junkyard random) leafs, square-tube driveshaft.... You can do that with an angle grinder, propane torch, 110v welder, a drill, and handtools. There's got to be that for PWC.
 
evernoob said:
Right, so modifications needed. Some type of structural enhancement for the tow, I'm thinking a strap of steel running back along the length of the hull and fiberglassed in. The tow is clean slate, and the only reason to use PWC hull is that a lot of the work is done.

Adapting a version of ocean-going tug apparatus seems doable. Or outside marine applications, somewhere out there is a cable drum with a mainspring inside of it that can pay out meters of tow line and return it damped to a default position with no power input at all. There has to be a thousand ways to go at that.

Also out there are the equivalent of a PWC small block chevy and impeller pump and all that crap.

Nobody seems to be hypermiling a PWC either. Everyone here has nursed a hundred half-assed machines home on fumes. Fuel metering vs distance travelled is off-the-shelf at this point. I'd think that within a couple of days you could plot out some way to preserve fuel economy. And as far as pump and motor matching goes, what's been offered by Manufs. isn't necessarily the best combination.

The biggest thing I see though is that PWC are set up for transient performance and there seems to be a LOT of engineering room there to take all those pieces and make a fuel-efficient machine with existing crap. I don't see why Cruise Control should be out of the question, seems like a smartphone, aftermarket box, arduino, or raspberry solution. Or mechanical things.

I think the 'Engineering' way to go at it is a governor mindset. Find some RPM that the power combo works in and work to maximize that little slice. The problem seems easier than making a PWC that will satisfy consumers from scratch. Because PWC seek (and accomplish) to please All Men, there is a ton of room there to narrow it to what I want: Sit on it with my hands on the handlebars not operating the throttle for 8 hours a day at the same RPM, with a minimum of surging and pulling.

Barring all of that, putting some type of powerplant into a home-built hull that hydroplanes doesn't seem ridiculously hard.

But I think it would be fun to do it as stock as possible, as in just a few modifications on used stuff and go. The way a solidaxle Toyota pickup back around 2000 was easily modifiable in a minimalist sense to make it this weirdly OP thing. Black pipe sliders, welded diffs, bent brake-line brackets, long shocks, Chevy (better yet junkyard random) leafs, square-tube driveshaft.... You can do that with an angle grinder, propane torch, 110v welder, a drill, and handtools. There's got to be that for PWC.
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my thinking is the more custom you get, the harder it is to fix

also what happened to the average guy aspect of this :laughing: youre talking about designing and fabricating a flying submarine that will tow a barge at mach 1.3 to invade poland:flipoff2:

im talking about bolting on a bunch of navigation and fuel and running down the coast for like 3 days
 
Arickvan said:
also what happened to the average guy aspect of this :laughing: youre talking about designing and fabricating a flying submarine that will tow a barge at mach 1.3 to invade poland:flipoff2:

im talking about bolting on a bunch of navigation and fuel and running down the coast for like 3 days
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That's where I'm starting. I'm just imagining the extreme ends of things.
 
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We've reached the point where evertard has posted so much retarded stuff that he has to backtrack and pretend it's all been trolling. But we know the truth. We know you're a fucking moron.
 
Sounds rad... Below pic is 1hr into the trip during a summer thunderstorm on lake michigan
048ee0b6f7e7a6700afaf84e1d0630ea--jetski-skiing.jpg
 
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