Project White Bread: WOD CJ/YJ Chassis Build

[TX_Jeep]

One thing I don't quite grasp.

That cross bar between the engine mounts doesn't look to be removable. Wouldn't it make working on the bottom of the engine a pain ?

It's not removeable. Could probably fit a tube flange on each side if needed. Other than removing the pan, what else would you be doing from the bottom? Engine has to come out from the top.

 

[Bebop]

It's not removeable. Could probably fit a tube flange on each side if needed. Other than removing the pan, what else would you be doing from the bottom? Engine has to come out from the top.

Removing the pan to change a broken one (happens, even with a span skid), to check bearings, oil pump ?

Not saying you're doing that every day, that cross bar just seemed like overkill and a big access hindrance.

 

[TX_Jeep]

How did you tune the shift points for both high and low range ? I had this issue recently.

Good question. Holley doesn't have provisions for low range and a separate shift strategy. It works fine but does shift early in low range. The 1-2 shift point was raised in the software to make it shift later. Could go a little higher now that its been on a few trips. Its always an option to drop the shifter to 1st to have it hold 1st gear and get compression braking. In hindsight, I think it would be better with a RMVB for my use.

 

[Bebop]

Good question. Holley doesn't have provisions for low range and a separate shift strategy. It works fine but does shift early in low range. The 1-2 shift point was raised in the software to make it shift later. Could go a little higher now that its been on a few trips. Its always an option to drop the shifter to 1st to have it hold 1st gear and get compression braking. In hindsight, I think it would be better with a RMVB for my use.

Ok.
I think you can get around it with a custom table and a high / low input. I have to set it up, just haven't had time to mess with it yet.

 

[TX_Jeep]

Removing the pan to change a broken one (happens, even with a span skid), to check bearings, oil pump ?

Not saying you're doing that every day, that cross bar just seemed like overkill and a big access hindrance.

Would be a bad day doing any of those. I think you can change the oil pump without removing the pan and just the timing cover, maybe? Probably a PITA to get to the pickup tube bolt. Worst case scenario you sawzall it out of your way if you have to do it in the field. It will still be supported from the primary mounts.

Other examples:

 

[Bebop]

I know how WOD does it.
I had to do an oil change in one of them and it was a massive pain in the rear.
I wanted to see if you had a reason to copy them other than "that's what they do" :)

 

[TX_Jeep]

Ok.
I think you can get around it with a custom table and a high / low input. I have to set it up, just haven't had time to mess with it yet.

I have a range switch on the Atlas and would be interested to see what you come up with when you get time.

 

[TX_Jeep]

I know how WOD does it.
I had to do an oil change in one of them and it was a massive pain in the rear.
I wanted to see if you had a reason to copy them other than "that's what they do" :)

Monkey see monkey do on some of it. Definitely don't want to snap a motor mount/tube off the chassis. The drain plug is on the drivers side of the pan I used. Still have to use a funnel to get the oil stream past the skid plate but not that bad to change the oil on mine. Not sure what pan they typically use.

 

[TX_Jeep]

Had to cut a sizeable hole in the tub floor to clear the T-case and driveshaft. Drivers floorboard was trash anyway. Was not real comfortable with this since I really haven't done any sheet metal work. Now way around it.

I'm sure the sheet metal guys will laugh at this but its covered up and clears the seat frame structure I built previously. Figured the bedliner would cover up some of the hackery. I used a flexible shifter boot to close up the opening for the shifters.

ECU and Switch Pro mount.

Boxed in and welded the fender caps on. Can also see the mount I made for the CJ tailgate latch and cable. The cable connects just under the latch.

 

[TX_Jeep]

This is the Holley fuel cell pump module I purchased. It's the "returnless" pump. It replaces the 12 bolt fuel cap that's on many different fuel cells. The return port is capped on top and has an internal regulator (white round part) on the discharge side of the pump. I previously purchased a hydromat sock from Holley on one of their holiday sales. It connects to an AN fitting. I had to adapt the pump (from Holley) using this pump ORB adapter then used some hardline to get the pickup to the center of the tank.

I had a fuel delivery issue on the first shakedown run. This setup did not work. Don’t get me wrong, I want to run an internal pump for the benefits it provides. I believe there were two issues. The regulator would fluctuate AND i would start to loose fuel pressure when if the Jeep was leaning at an angle to the passenger side. I don't think the adapter fitting on the bottom of the fuel pump sealed very well and would loose suction. Don't recommend the internal regulator, pump adapter, and hardline. Maybe i got a bad one but don't trust the internal regulator either. Should have purchased the return style pump.

Picture of the internal regulator. Not even sure you can get a replacement. It would be kind of a pain to pull the pump to change also.

Swapped to a hydromat that connects/snaps directly to the bottom of the pump. Switch to an C5 style filter/regulator and ran a return line back to the tank from the frame rail. I've had zero issues with fuel delivery since. I carry a spare filter regulator and pump.

C5 corvette style filter/regulator with built in AN fittings to eliminate the adapters.

 

[Bebop]

I have a range switch on the Atlas and would be interested to see what you come up with when you get time.

No problem, I'll tinker with it when I get some downtime or after I get cars out of the shop.

Monkey see monkey do on some of it. Definitely don't want to snap a motor mount/tube off the chassis. The drain plug is on the drivers side of the pan I used. Still have to use a funnel to get the oil stream past the skid plate but not that bad to change the oil on mine. Not sure what pan they typically use.

They use a Mast pan, with a left side drain plug.

I'm sure the sheet metal guys will laugh at this but its covered up and clears the seat frame structure I built previously. Figured the bedliner would cover up some of the hackery.

Guy complains about not being able to do tin work.
Proceeds to post pic of excellent tin work.

Good job, looks bitchin

This is the Holley fuel cell pump module I purchased. It's the "returnless" pump. It replaces the 12 bolt fuel cap that's on many different fuel cells. The return port is capped on top and has an internal regulator (white round part) on the discharge side of the pump. I previously purchased a hydromat sock from Holley on one of their holiday sales. It connects to an AN fitting. I had to adapt the pump (from Holley) using this pump ORB adapter then used some hardline to get the pickup to the center of the tank.

I had a fuel delivery issue on the first shakedown run. This setup did not work. Don’t get me wrong, I want to run an internal pump for the benefits it provides. I believe there were two issues. The regulator would fluctuate AND i would start to loose fuel pressure when if the Jeep was leaning at an angle to the passenger side. I don't think the adapter fitting on the bottom of the fuel pump sealed very well and would loose suction. Don't recommend the internal regulator, pump adapter, and hardline. Maybe i got a bad one but don't trust the internal regulator either. Should have purchased the return style pump.

Picture of the internal regulator. Not even sure you can get a replacement. It would be kind of a pain to pull the pump to change also.

Interesting feedback, you're the first person I know using this pump/regulator. I had high hopes but this kinda sucks.

Holley sells the regulator separately:

Holley EFI 12-160 Holley EFI Replacement Regulator Kit

Retrofit Regulator Kit. Replace or install a regulator in your Holley Retrofit Fuel Pump Module

www.holley.com

Swapped to a hydromat that connects/snaps directly to the bottom of the pump. Switch to an C5 style filter/regulator and ran a return line back to the tank from the frame rail. I've had zero issues with fuel delivery since. I carry a spare filter regulator and pump.

I run the exact same style of setup in my buggy. Super happy with it !

C5 corvette style filter/regulator with built in AN fittings to eliminate the adapters.

This one I'm curious about. Where did you find the filter with built in AN fittings ?
I used adapters on mine.

 

[TX_Jeep]

HOLLEY EFI GM STYLE FILTER/ REGULATOR -6AN

Cheaper through Holley but Speedway carries it also.

Speedway Deluxe AN6 GM LS Swap Fuel Filter/Regulator, 58 PSI

 

[Bebop]

HOLLEY EFI GM STYLE FILTER/ REGULATOR -6AN

Cheaper through Holley but Speedway carries it also.

Speedway Deluxe AN6 GM LS Swap Fuel Filter/Regulator, 58 PSI

That's cool !

Thanks !

 

[TX_Jeep]

Decided to mount the Holley 6.86" Pro Dash on the column. I wanted to keep the CJ flat dash open and clean. Can't say enough good things about this piece. Easy user interface and lots of features. Also comes with a GPS unit that will give you speed, odometer, elevation, and heading. Very customizable screens for viewing I/O from basic to give it all to me.

Even though I have the Switch Pro, you quickly run out of buttons when controlling all the accessories. Picked up this turn signal switch kit from Racewire Solutions. Purchased the prewired fuse/relay/flasher box as well. It's on the punch list to install but should be pretty straight forward. Seems like a nice setup. I plan on running an antique tag on the rig for short runs on the street.

Pro Dash bracket/mount was from Motion Raceworks. Might have been able to make something myself, but weighed the time vs $ equation. It does have adjustment in the mount to get the angle you want.

 

[TX_Jeep]

This was a good spot to stop and view the progress. It provided motivation to keep pushing the project along. I'd call it roughly 70% complete. Still a long way to go but much of the heavy lifting was out of the way. The back seat is in. I made a mount that bolted into the factory locations in the rear tub area. More to come on this. I wanted the rear cargo area modular in a sense. I wanted a way to easily pull the rear seat in favor of a cooler/fridge and toolbox configuration. Also, I have small kiddos that are in car seats that need a way to strap in when they ride along.

Rear view.

 

[TX_Jeep]

Cooling system. This is another area where I had issues after the first couple of runs. The system was running warmer than what I would like and didn't feel it was keeping up. Switched the 50/50 coolant mix to straight distilled water and water wetter with a slight improvement. Changed thermostat to 180 degree with holes drilled in it which prolonged the warmer temps. Granted it was July/August in Texas with 100+ degree days, BUT it would get warm/hot and had a hard time recovering. It was fine at idle and on ranch roads (195*) but would climb when pushing the rig. It hit 231 degrees on one occasion, no boil over. Reading up on LS cooling systems showed this is within the normal range and some factory fan settings don't come on until 236 or so. Just too hot for my liking and you could feel the radiant heat coming off everything. Passenger floorboard was toasty as well.

I went with a Griffin Combo(CU-58241-XLS) unit with shroud and dual 10" compact Spal fans. Radiator is 27.5 x 15.5 dual pass crossflow without a trans cooler. Inlet/Outlet are matched to the water pump at 1.25" upper and 1.5" lower on the passenger side with steam port fitting. I believe WOD pairs this unit with their front radiator rigs but uses the variant with AN hose connections. It fits between the frame rails and matches the shortened grill height. It is small compared to other setups I've seen but I didn't have much real estate to go larger in any dimension.

Here is the fan the radiator came with. A very slim Spal 10" brushed fan.

I felt the slim Spal fans just weren't pulling enough air through the radiator. They seemed to loose a little power when heat soaked also. Most of my searches resulted in Spal brushless fans being referenced in late model factory applications (Chevy Volt, Corvette, Camaro) and how well they worked. Lots of good info out there on swapping and controlling these with via a PWM signal. I ordered a fan/shroud combo from a Chevy Volt off Car-Part hoping it would fit the radiator. The Volt unit comes with dual 12" Spal brushless fans. I hacked up the plastic shroud and it fit, kinda. I test wired it and ramped the fans up/down via the Holley Terminator X PWM signal it can generate. Start very slow without a big amp draw, worked as advertised, and impressive air movement.

Ultimately I ordered two new 10" Spal brushless fans from Kartek, the bolt on version for a cleaner and slightly lower profile fit. They fit the shroud great with just a few new holes drilled. Buy twice and cry 3 times right?

I did have to move the radiator forward about 2 inches to accommodate the deep dish fans. Luckily I had room between the grill and radiator, just had to rework the mount.

Here is a screenshot of the PWM table to control the Spal fans. One item to note is the store bought fans require a reverse duty cycle scheme as comparted to an OEM GM Spal fan. So 85% duty cycle is 15% fan speed. I chose to turn them on at minimum speed when cold just so I can confirm they're working. Max temp I've seen since the swap was 199 degrees (93 Degree ambient) and the fan had ~10% speed left. These things move some air, no high amp spike at startup, and are quiet. Don't hear them running at normal temps. Rig runs 180-185 at idle and ranch roads.

Went with a clamp style mount to secure the radiator vs aluminum pucks welded to the sides and tabs. Hopefully this chassis has minimal twist but didn't want to risk cracking a radiator with it bolted direct. AND didn't want to blow a hole it the radiator with my novice AC tig welding skills.

Hoses are silicone pieces from Pegasus Auto Racing. They have a huge selection. Top 1.25" hose is two pieces (45 & 90) trimmed and joined with a coupler and Gates PowerGrip heat shrink clamp.

 

[Bebop]

Very cool !

I run the exact same radiator on my buggy. I shoehorned 2 12" paddle fans on it.

No problem keeping it cool under mild to medium loads, it just goes up when I beat on it.

I experimented with some C6 PWM control modules for PWM with good success.

 

[TX_Jeep]

Very cool !

I run the exact same radiator on my buggy. I shoehorned 2 12" paddle fans on it.

No problem keeping it cool under mild to medium loads, it just goes up when I beat on it.

I experimented with some C6 PWM control modules for PWM with good success.

Interesting. For anyone looking at this setup, I wouldn't waste the dollars on the fans Griffin pairs with the radiator. I have a mild engine and it struggled.

The newer C7 fans have the controller built in. For future tech, the C7 fan is a brushless 14" with 500 watt motor. The Z06 version jumps up to 600W. Sixth gen Camaros get the 850W 19" fan.

 

[Bebop]

Camaros get the 850W 19" fan.

That's what I'm using on my next one.
Big unit.

 

[TX_Jeep]

Tear down for final welding started.

Flipped it upside down for easier welding access and make it simper to build the belly skid. I went with Hardox 450 plate 3/16" thick. Hardox is what I could get locally from my metal supplier when I requested AR plate. It's a single piece with sides that bolt to threaded tabs welded between the chassis rails. I didn't care for the thick aluminum and all the bolts heads that hang down on the WOD builds I've seen. Every rig I've had the skid plate gets hammered and the bolt heads would hang you up and get ground down to nothing. I don't have good in progress pictures of the skid plate but can post some final product shots if anyone is interested. The Hardox cut fine with a plasma. The two side pieces welded fine with typical mig settings.

Built the roof out of 5000 series 0.090 aluminum. 5051 I think? Don't work with aluminum much but seem to drill and shape easy without cracking. Used trick tabs with 1/4" fasteners. The best fitting ones I found were from Ruffstuff Specialties. I tried several. I added two additional tabs in the front corners to get the edge down a little more.

Moved the entire contraption outside for paint. Black Steel-It was used on the chassis. Did a combination of quarts and spray cans. I never could get it to spray out of a gun with good results. Used a gun designed for heavy thick primer but it really wasn't great. The cans are much better, IMO.

This shot puts it in perspective how much tubing is actually in this thing. I added a additional connectors to the front fenders that tie into the shock hoops. Also added a connector from the fender back to the cage to tie it all together. It can be removed at the tube flange at the body and tube connector under the dash. I think this really stiffened the whole assembly up.

 

[TX_Jeep]

That's what I'm using on my next one.
Big unit.

Hell yeah! If that wont keep things cool, nothing will. Beast of a fan. I like the custom fan motor/blade housing. Details?

 

[TX_Jeep]

Figured out it was easier to get to everything with the cage separated. Painting tubing is a PITA.

Used Raptor Liner inside the tub, firewall, and rear wheel wells. Order 8 quarts and used 7. Best DIY bedliner product I’ve used to date.

Used a harbor freight HVLP gun and thinned Rustoleum pro oil based paint. Added a hardener also. Gallon is like $40.

Hit the accessories with some red.

 

[TX_Jeep]

Assembly goes surprisingly quick.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

I really like the way this turned out, great job!

 

[TX_Jeep]

First time out of the shop under its own power. Struts not charged so this is full bump.

Finished dash with a couple red accents.

Gauge layout I use the most.

 

[TX_Jeep]

Photos from the first couple outings.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Gauge layout I use the most.

What is that top left gauge for?

 

[Wisconsinite]

What is that top left gauge for?

Oil pressure?

 

[TX_Jeep]

Oil pressure?

Yep. The red lights up when low. It goes away when you start it and have pressure.

 

[Bebop]

Hell yeah! If that wont keep things cool, nothing will. Beast of a fan. I like the custom fan motor/blade housing. Details?

The factory GM part doesn't come with an easy to rework shroud like the Volt fans. You kinda have to make one. I researched the web and found this Axis fabrication part that was supposed to bolt on. I had to modify quite a bit. If I had to do it again I'd just build one.

If you want to make one, give me a shout I'll try to take some better pics for you.

I just want to add, that i have this exact same issue with my LS. Except it stays right at 230 degrees all the time. No matter what i would do, it stays at this temp, winter and summer.

After extensive reading and thinking, it seems this number can change based on where you are pulling your temps from. I have my sensor on the passenger head near the firewall. If you pull your temps from the thermostat, or the electrical port on the driver side, the number will be lower.

Pass side head port reads 10 degrees over the driver side one. I've tested this on a couple of engines.
And off course the number will change depending on where you pull it from.