Project: Midnight Panic

Do you have link to your dad's project?

On the trannys, how long is a "shorty" C6? I've seen some real short C4 trannys. Looking at my C6, it seems like I could shorten it quite a bit by getting rid of the governor. (I think that's what it's called) Back when I was thinking about it, seems like I needed a custom shaft. Kind of "over my head", so I kept it stock.

I don't think any of dads stuff is on the internet,
Actually I'm not sure the internet is big enough for all his projects, 😆

See the above post about the shorty tail shaft,

What tail shaft do you have now?
 
You are on another dude. Wow.

Beautiful work, I'm speechless !

Thanks for sharing.
 
I don't think any of dads stuff is on the internet,
Actually I'm not sure the internet is big enough for all his projects, 😆

See the above post about the shorty tail shaft,

What tail shaft do you have now?

You aught to take few pics of his stuff. We all want to see them. My dad had a lot of projects, (not all automotive, but still cool) I wish I had recorded them.

I re-read your posts a few times and I'm catching up. This is going to sound stupid because I have successfully rebuilt a few auto trannys, but I've never really understood them all that well. I have a four wheel drive C6. I won't be changing it now. But maybe my next project. I could probably handle cutting a shaft and machining up a adapter.
 
That transmission trickery is absolutely awesome. I bet very few people can claim they built a 2000 hp capable transmission in their home shop with a mix n match of stock parts "I had laying around". :laughing:




Sooo badass :smokin::smokin::smokin::smokin:
 
That transmission trickery is absolutely awesome. I bet very few people can claim they built a 2000 hp capable transmission in their home shop with a mix n match of stock parts "I had laying around". :laughing:




Sooo badass :smokin::smokin::smokin::smokin:

Without a doubt!
 
Are you using manual or CNC for your machine work?

When you drill out the separator plates what's your process/toolpath? Just take a dimensional drawing and then plan all your moves from hole to hole or something more advanced?

Also how'd you hold that clutch pack pressure plate for final machining down to height?
 
That transmission trickery is absolutely awesome. I bet very few people can claim they built a 2000 hp capable transmission in their home shop with a mix n match of stock parts "I had laying around". 🤣

Well, we have to get through the proving stage first, 😆
 
Are you using manual or CNC for your machine work?

When you drill out the separator plates what's your process/toolpath? Just take a dimensional drawing and then plan all your moves from hole to hole or something more advanced?

Also how'd you hold that clutch pack pressure plate for final machining down to height?

All manual machines, I started with a USED steel TCI separator plate, it had very few oil passage holes, of those there were only 3 I did not want in my plate, those 3 were marked, next I took the Broader plate & laid it over the TCI & transferred what I wanted from that plate with a sharpie, (not precision, just reference) I did the same with a stock plate over the TCI, once I had all the holes I wanted the TCI was setup & drilled, I did not rely on the sharpie marks, the TCI plate being used had all the fluid paths transferred through harmonics, or vibration, heck maybe even corrosion, either way they could be seen clearly, I used that tracking & referenced the other two (Broader & stock) plates front & back to actually locate the holes, most of the sharpie marks would have been just fine, a few of the others actually fit the fluid bath better than the aftermarket plates, & there's 2 that could have moved .030" one direction, but they more than adequate, when drilling the new holes in the TCI plate I used the Broader plate as a reference for the drill size, (there were only a couple holes that varied from the stock plate, & those different sized holes made sense to me)

With the TCI plate drilled, I could lay it over each half of the VB & make sure I hit the mark as far as fluid passages go, Once confirmed I didn't mess it up, the new separator plates were simply stacked with the TCI on top & used as a template, the most time consuming part there was using a dowel pin the same diameter as each drill to locate on the hole as accurately as possible, Some original TCI holes that needed to be a different size went like so, "use one size dowel to locate on the hole, switch to center drill to spot the hole, then finish with a drill bit to the new diameter"

I started with the mounting holes first, then the bolt holes that hold the two halves of the VB together, moved on to the oil passage holes, followed by the different passages that were actually slots rather than holes, & finished with the larger pickup & pressure feed holes,

No magic, no fancy tools, not even really crafty. I will tell you I probably have 8 hours in building these three plates,

If I ever had intentions of making more than these 3, I would set up on the mill, find two points to square up on, then start locating on each hole, use the DRO (digital read out) to write down each hole (X & Y axis) from a know point, transfer that data in to plasmacam, then I could export it as a DXF file, from there I would Email it to the waterjet guy & could have them cut buy the dozens,

The pressure plates were easy, they were done in the late, the two that only needed a step went flat against the jaws, used a dial indicator to makes sure it was with a thou or so, then cut the step down to where I wanted it,

The plate that I had cut the whole face down got the same, it was just setup with a spacer between the plate & jaws first,
 
Sheesh this thread just keeps getting better! I'm actually going to be sad when you finish it...i bet you won't be though:lmao:


This one definitely about the build, not about getting it done, it will be fun when finished, but I am really enjoying all the different aspects of making it come together.
 
Other than the drum integrity, is there any concern to using a 3 clutch drum machined for another snap ring? My builder didn't want to use re-worked drums and claimed a clutch or steel could get caught in the old ring groove. It took awhile to find suitable drums and pieces to build a 5 clutch'er.
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I don't have an issue running a re-cut 3 clutch direct drum up to say 1000 hp. maybe a bit more, I have read the factory 5 clutch drum is made out of better material, but I do not know if there is any truth to that,
as far as a steel getting hung up in the old groove, on the direct drum, if done properly, the thick pressure plate covers up the old groove so that's usually not an issue, The forward drum in your pic looks like a 3 or 4 clutch that has been modified for more, I've never seen the material hogged out between the two groves before, that's kind of odd, is there even enough material there for the pressure plate to spline to?
The direct drum looks like a nice long spline 3 clutch that will now fit 5, that should do you a good job,
 
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Not a lot to update this week, I can tell you I'm tired of transmissions,
I decided last weekend to order a couple sets of Chromo pressure plates for the forward & direct drums, the stock ones are some kind of powdered or cast metal, & while they do not flex, they can break, & usually in multiple pieces, I decided it's worth waiting for the piece of mind, unfortunately they did not show up this week.
I did sit down & assemble all the valve body parts I tinkered with last weekend, so now I have three reverse pattern, & 1 forward pattern VB to use,

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This whole time building the transmission, I have been working on a second one right next to it, the second one is actually for the buggy & the only thing I needed for it was the valve body, so it got one of the new home made units then buttoned up,

To keep busy while hoping my pressure plates would show up I decided to modify a couple trans filter adapters I had, in the Bigfoot transmission I noticed they had moved the pickup to towards the front of the transmission, which is actually towards the rear of the truck in a rear engine rig, I thought that was a good idea, plus I had filter adapters that needed modified for deeper pans than they were originally built for, so two birds, one stone,

Total modification included moving the pick-up tube, plus making it an inch longer, I'm sure it's over kill, but I added a support tube in the mix as well,

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X2

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Maybe the pressure plates will show up this week while I'm at work, & I can button this dang transmission up next weekend,
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I did spend a little time with hood mounting, but not enough to post up about this time around, maybe have some updates on that next time as well.
 
Finally! the transmission is done, (with the exception of the torque converter, I have one for it, just needs sent in for "cut & clean")


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With the transmission off the bench & stored til needed, I moved on to mounting the hood,
Since receiving the fiberglass hood it has just kind of been setting in place,
For mounting the rear of the hood, a simple bracket was drawn up & cut out,


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The part of the mount where the hood pin actually attaches had a little machine work done, & was threaded so the pin itself threads directly into the mount,
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Both sides were tacked together & test fit, then completely welded out,
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As you can see, the rear mount bolts to a factory pattern in the cab where the original inner fender/hood hinges bolted on,
The front was even more simple, a couple tube clamps which fit the cross tube that holds the rest of the front end up, & a pair of 7075 aluminum stand-offs, one end machined to fit the threaded holes in the tube clamp, & the other drilled/tapped for the hood pin to thread into,
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With these parts in place I was able to mark & drill the hood for the pins,
As with most hood pin kits this one came with small screws to hold the plates to the fiberglass, I've never really liked this, even on even on light build drag race vehicles,
So another scrap of 7075 was whittled on in the mill & lathe for a bit,
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This was turned into a matching set of plates for the bottom side of the hood, only the ones I built are threaded, that way each pin plate sandwiches the hood with 10-32 screws.
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Another reason for the lower plates, & the reason for the machine work on the rear hood pin mounts was to use a fairly stiff spring between the pin mount & hood, this should keep the hood pretty snug, allow the pin to go through the hood in a slightly angled surface, & in the event of a crash even if the hood is destroyed, the actual mounting might survive & be reused,

I guess I technically have coil-over hood pins,
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For the most part the hood is on, I do think I will add a center support at the fire wall, & a Dzus faster at each rear corner right above the fender to help the glass hood fit the body lines a touch better, I am currently using magnets to pull everything in flush,

Over all the fit on this particular hood is pretty good for fiberglass, If this was more of a street rig, or something less likely to get wrecked I would have used a less obvious hood mounting system, but hood pins will do the job for sure.
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I finished up the hood & while it was to early to quit for the day, It was to late to get started on some big project,

I have had a small pile of plas cut parts for 5 point harness mounts in my bead blast cabinet for months now, & since the TIG was drug out for hood mounts, this was the perfect time to finish cleaning them up & get them welded together,
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Working on the harness mounts inside the cab reminded me of another small project I wanted to tinker with,
Finishing up the brake pedal, & since there was already a mess of chips on the lathe & mill, this was the perfect time to add to that pile,
A little lathe work followed by a couple setups on the mill, & I had a bolt on foot pad for the brake pedal,
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by the time I finished the brake pedal it was 3:00am, I figured that was enough for that day.
 
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Hood fits much better than any similar trucks I've seen. Probably fits better than some restored trucks. What is the tube between the pedals? Doesn't look very easy to use them like that. Are the pedals going to stick out some more when finished?
 
The next day it was back to working on the front end,
I really like how clean the late 70's Fords look from the factory, & I'm trying to keep as much of it as possible. With the fenders, grill/shell, & now hood mounted, it just seemed like the time to figure out a bumper. more than once I've been asked if I was doing one out of tube, or plate, but this thing really has to have a stock one to look right IMO.

After a couple of hours with a measuring stick, a stock bumper jigged up on the fab table, the PlasmaCam program, & my daily driver 78 bronco as a reference to place everything correctly, I had a pattern to take to dads & cut everything out of 1/4" plate.
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I set up & TIG welded everything I could on the bench before actually welding anything to the chassis,
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Then before pulling the grill/shell off the front clip I mocked the mounts up in place to double check fit,
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With everything looking like it would work, the grill/shell was pulled off the truck, but one thing I needed to do before welding the mounts on was cap the end of the main chassis tubes,
A couple slugs were turned on the lathe & tapped into place,
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Since the front of the truck is to far away to reach with the TIG, I just used the wire feed to burn them in, (they get ground flush with the end of the tube anyway)
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Once welded both slugs were ground down flush,
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Then the bumper mounting brackets were setup & welded in place.
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Obviously with the amount of fender trimming I have done so far there was no way a stock bumper would fit without issue,
But a little work with a zip disk took care of it,
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All of the trimming is the bare minimum of what I think it will need, once I start flexing it around I'm sure everything will need a little more work,

I'm still in the air on weather I should flex/fit with the sway bars hooked up, or disconnected, The rock crawler/buggy builder part of me wants to disconnect them, then make sure everything clears no matter what. The 70's Ford fan in me knows that with 26" of shock used in a truck this low & in full articulation is going to result in chopping up way more body than I want,
Mechanically & structurally everything should clear fine either way, so for now I am leaning towards leaving the sway bars hooked up, & making sure the tires clear the sheet metal with a little room to spare, If there is ever a time that I NEED more flex the rear sway bar is easy to disconnect & remove, allowing the rear axle more movement, the bed skins are also pretty easy to take off, this would eliminate any sheet metal damage from the rear tires,
In the case of a sway bar failure, odds are pretty good a little fender damage will be the least of my concerns,


That pretty much wraps up this days off, I still have a handful of little things I'd like to do, but I'm getting to the point I need to get the real engine together & bolted in so I can get going on accessory drive stuff, then move on to wiring & plumbing,

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What is the tube between the pedals? Doesn't look very easy to use them like that. Are the pedals going to stick out some more when finished?

That tube is actually the rear leg of the front shock hoop, getting in & out it's noticeable, but sitting in the seat the tube is not in the way at all, this truck has always been intend as a two footer, (when driving my buggy competitively I always two foot it, which is weird, I can't stand two footing a daily driver unless it has a clutch)
If I ever find a 'want' to be able to use the brakes with my right foot there are provisions to attach a pedal to the arm that goes to the master cylinder which is on the same side of the tube as the throttle pedal.

The pedals will not stick out any farther, & so far during initial testing (sitting in the truck making loud engine sounds) that tube is actually pretty convenient for finding the pedal & might even help keep my foot on the pedal,
 
Hood pin brackets and bumper brackets are nicer than anything I've ever built........ Every piece you build is a work of art!

:smokin:

I was just going to post the same thing.

But I can't stop looking and reading because I always learn something..............................even if my execution look like a small child did it.
 
Well, I've decided to focus on the engine, as I am going to need it in the chassis pretty soon to work on plumbing & wiring, however, I think it is going to be very similar to the transmission, lots of hours & not a lot of interesting stuff to post, plus, like the transmission I am doing a new engine for the buggy at the same time, both engines I have been gathering or already had parts for a few years now.

This engine will be big block ford based (460) starting with a brand new Ford motorsports A460 block, out of the box they require quite a lot of machine work, the bore is supposed to be ready to hone to size, it's not, there is to much material to hone, & boring the cylinders is pretty tricky since there is very little to work with, (.009 if I remember correctly) also the deck is only rough machined, & not square, Then it is pretty common knowledge in the Ford world that the crankshaft main bores really should be line honed, not to mention stuff like oil mods, honing lifter bores, etc.
I usually do my own engine assembly, but leave this type of machine work to the pros,
One of my very best friends of 20 years or so (Randal) has been doing this type of stuff for as long as I have known him, not only do I trust his machine work & opinion, I almost always pull on his knowledge for parts selection like camshaft, bearing material for the application, or maybe even what head gasket to run if it's a specific build, & I rarely even assemble an engine without having him help/consult while I install & torque bolts,
Even though none of my engine stuff 100% me alone, I'm still not the guy that drops a pile of parts off for machine work & assembly, or whip out the credit card & order an off the shelf engine from someone like Shafiroff, Steve Morris, or Jon Kaase, (this would no doubt speed up the process though)

Also tooling is a point of interest in this build, while neither myself or Randal have many of the machine tools needed for engine work, we have access to some through other good friends, one being Randal's old boss (Steve), Who I have know since I was about 9, Steve has a long history of circle track, & drag racing in his younger days, he came out west about 30 years ago & went to work at the mines, He worked with my dad for a while & this is where I first met him, fast forward several years after his family was pretty much raised & gone, he quite mining, knocked the dust off of his old equipment & opened his own automotive repair shop with a pretty well equipped machine shop, which he has ran & employed people for at least the last 25 years or so,
The next option for tooling is another long time friend (Jason) another local gear head that loves anything with an engine, Jason & I have known each other since 5th grade, He & Randal have also been friends for many years, Knowing Steve isn't going to stay working forever Jason started buying a lot of the same tooling so he would always have machining options later on,

This is kind of a long winded post, some may find interest in it, the rest will scroll to the pics, I'm good with either, but I think it's important to point out what "build an engine" is to me, It's not swapping heads & gapping rings on a junk yard LS so you can run china turbos, it's not researching the closest machine shop that has the latest tooling, & it's also not me hefting a chunk of aluminum on the Bridgeport to see if I can build my own block,
It is, getting together with people I've known most of my life, swapping ideas, learning how things used to be done, or how they're done now, It's working with equipment that has been around longer than me, & is one of the very few parts of any build that I actually enjoy working with other people,

So, now that the back story is out of the way & everyone has been introduce, back to the engine,
As stated I bought a brand new mess of an A460 block, I put it on the stand & started with general cleanup, deburring sharp edges, drilling/blending the oil feed galleys, & measuring for the upcoming machine work,
The first thing that needed done was cut the deck, both to get it flat, & then square with the crank journals, along with the correct height (distance from the crank) There are a couple ways this can be done, Randal & I did it on Steve's Van Norman head surfacing machine, I did not get any pics, but here is a google image of what the machine looks like,
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Basically the block is setup on the machine with the deck to be cut face down on the table, then shimmed based on measurements previously taken to get everything square, the block is locked in & a pass or two was made, taking measurements after each one to makes sure everything is going the right direction, once finished the block was rolled over & the same thing took place on the second surface,

Once both sides were square, & flat, the block was setup in Steve's home made, bore/honing station, there's no google pics of that setup, but it's basically parts of a drill press that has been modified for honing use, but before honing a Van Normal boring bar is used to get the cylinder bores to size,

This is usually where I go work on something else, when Randal sits down to run the bar I just stay out of the way & let him do his thing, He'll bore all 8 holes first, then hone them to final size,
As mentioned, there was only about .009 to work with, & the bores from Ford must have been hogged out in pretty heavy cuts as they were not real strait,
Randal said "this block is going to take a while" And it did, he started working on it around 6:00 pm, the next morning I got up to go to work at 3:30 AM, About 20 min later I got a text "one side is done"
I'm not real sure when he got back around to working on the other side, but by the time I went back on days off the block was all bored/honed, & fit,
Even though Randal doesn't work for Steve anymore he still does enough engine work down there to stay familiar with the tools, & the quality is amazing, he might be a little slower, but the end result will be better than any other boring setup out there.

Oh, I was also told if I get another A460 block to have it machined somewhere else. 😆

Next up for the block was something we could not do ourselves, & that was line hone the crankshaft main bores, Steve has a line bore setup for doing blocks, but not a hone,
So it got hauled over to another old school small shop a couple towns away where the main bores touched up, After that the block was bagged up & set in the corner for assembly,

Prior to even buying the A460 block I had scored a set of coated Icon forged pistons with coated wrist pins, they were in an engine for a couple dyno pulls before being swapped for a lower compression set,
Also a good deal I came across was a set of 6.900 Groden aluminum rods with 25 passes on them, 6.900 is not as common as the 6.7 or 6.8 that most stroker ford combinations use, but they were perfect for the pistons I had & the crankshaft I wanted to run,
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With those parts in hand, along with a set of rings & bearings I was able to calculate a bob weight, with that I reached out to Performance Crank shaft & ordered a Scat 4340 forged 4.300 stroke crank, balanced to my bob weight & double key ways cut for the blower drive hub.

So 4.5 bore, & 4.3 stroke, means I'll end up with 547 cubic inch,

For the top end I found a set of brand new old stock Blue Thunder "B" heads, un touched, bare castings, while they're not one the latest & greatest "stock configuration" heads like the Kaase P-51 or SR-71 heads, they were pretty good back in their day, & the & the strong exhaust port is probably a little better that the other two in a supercharged application,

Normally I would port the heads myself, then have Randal do the valve job, & set them up with the proper springs & hardware for the cam they'd go with, but this time I decided to send this set out to a guy that I have followed & read post after post he has made in the 460 world,
Charlie Evans out of Kentucky has had his hands on probably every style 460 ford head ever made, & maybe even some that never made it to any kind of production,
I give him a call, & went over what the plan was, then boxed the heads up & shipped them over to him, I got them back ported, a complete valve job, & sheet with the flow numbers he got, He also shipped a set of valves that I would need,

Pretty much all of the machine work I have talked about in this post was done a couple years ago, & has been sitting here, waiting for me to get to it,
 
Now back to current times, (this last days off to be exact)

One of the details I wanted to sort before assembly was the cam drive for the fuel pump, I had 3 different parts that I had collected from 3 different places with 3 different timing covers, & I really didn't care for any of them,

So I took the "drive spud" that I knew was a shelf part, & just built my own adapter using a chunk of 4140 & a few dowel pins for the cam gear to drive against,
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The adapter doubles as the cam bolt washer, basically it's held on by the cam bolt, & the 3 dowel pins take the load to drive the fuel pump,

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Then the part that actually fits the pump shaft simply bolts on,
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With the motor plate & timing cover in place you can start to see how this is supposed to work,
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...
 
In my opinion I think it's pretty important to have the fuel pump & cam lined up as close as possible, using the ID of the pump mount surface, & the OD of the pump drive "spud" I turned a chunk of aluminum bar into a line up tool,


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Simply plug the tool in place before tightening the timing cover down during assembly, then pull it out when your ready to put the pump on,



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Another little project was the crank bolt washer, the end of the crank shaft is only recessed about .040 from the face of the blower drive hub, I wanted a washer that was not going to flex or bend/cone into the front of the crank, possibly reducing clamping force on the blower drive hub,

So I used a piece of hardened chromo axle shaft (2" Ouverson violator shaft) & whipped one up,
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With the timing cover modifications & motor plate, I double checked that the oil pan fit properly, & all the holes lined up.
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Other things I did while messing the the front of the engine, removed the V-belt pulley I had previously build for the blower drive hub to run the alternator, then worked over a serpentine power steering pulley to fit in it's place, lot's of mock-up & fitting different stuff,

Here is the front motor plate, timing cover, blower belt tensioner, mocked-up along with the blower drive hub, serpentine pulley, blower pulley, crank support, & front steering pump,
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I also drug the blower & injection out so I could get a list together of what's needed plumb & install everything,
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Maybe with a little luck I can talk Randal into sitting in front of the fire place while I start putting this thing together over the holidays,
 
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