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Plumber Tech: whole house water filter

72blazer

72blazer

Marion Cobretti
Joined
May 20, 2020
Member Number
474
Messages
711
Loc
The Real South Texas
TL; DR-recommend an efficient but inexpensive inline outdoor whole house water filter.


Built our house 2019 with a Genesis water softener running into a tankless propane water heater. We are on city water. I have no complaints regarding the WS or WH. However, we’ve struggled with a recurring problem since we built the house. Every 3-4 months, we will begin to notice our hot side water pressure will dramatically drop as well as poor heating of the water.

After the first 6 months in the house, I kept calling the plumber who eventually came out to check it out. His workers ended up pulling the filter in the WH and giving it a good cleaning. Another 6 months later, repeat process. Once again about 2 months we slowly start to notice the problem creeping up again. A couple of days before Snowmagedon hit and morning after the WS had regenerated, I went in to shower...pressure was ridiculously low and water was ice cold. I said fuck that.

At this point, I called the plumber with no answer. I decided I’d pull the WH filter out and clean it myself. Once I did that, I noticed a lot of copper color like sediment in the filter but thought no way this could be the problem as it was a thin film coating the filter. Cleaned out the filter, reinstalled everything, and voila...pressure was coming out like a fire hydrant and we were able to take our first hot showers again in months.

I called my plumber again that evening and let him know the situation so I inquired about a whole house water filter connected into the main of the house. He said he’d get back to, 2 weeks later nothing. I also called another mutual friend since he does WS and WHWF as a side business. He told me he’d get me going ASAP...that was 2 weeks ago.

Fast forward to today and no updates or contact. I’m guessing no one wants to work. So I’m ok doing it myself. I have some basic plumbing experience and I could always ask my dad for help too.

What I’m looking for is suggestions on a whole house water filter I can plumb into the 3/4” copper main that runs into our house. Interior of the house is PEX. The water main going into the house is plumber clear across the house through the attic to our utility room about 70’ away. This is the reason I’d like to plumb at the copper main. Only other thing I could think of is plumbing right before the water softener but looks to be a PITA.

ive found WHWF ranging from $40-2600. Don’t wanna kill the wallet but I would like some good extra filtration so I’m here asking the almighty IBB for help. Suggestions? Is sub $500 doable? I can only read so many Home Depot reviews. :flipoff2:
 
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Yep, it's doable, get 2 standard 4 x 20 cartridge housings, cut the house inlet put in a tee with a valve on the two outlet legs, plumb in the housings to one outlet leg, put another valve on the outlet of the last housing. Run a line back to the first cut from the outlet filter valve and put in another tee and reconnect the from the other valve from the original cut and the rest of your shit. Now you have filtration and a bypass. You can run whatever you want in the housings. If you want more pressure, run the two housings in parallel, if you want down to 1 micron, run them in series and do 2 stage so you don't plug so fast.

You should be in all that for less than $300 if you self install.

I would also put in a drain leg on the filters with a valve so you can change cartridges without getting soaked. Also a pressure gauge on each side of the filters will tell you when it needs to be changed.

https://www.filtersfast.com/Pentek-...MIzcaFkdeF7wIVeP_jBx3taQfREAQYASABEgIwc_D_BwE

Note mounting brackets and cartridges are separate. Go ahead and get the wrench also. Spin them on hand tight, but it takes the wrench to loosen them.
 
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Getting everything you need to DIY a setup is like $100. Filtering the whole house is a waste of filter media. The overwhelming majority of home water usage comes from toilets, showers, laundry and garden. Those don't need to be filtered. If you're lucky your house is plumbed in such a way that a filter upstream of the kitchen sink will also cover the dishwasher and ice maker (if applicable).

I wouldn't fuck around adding extra valves and elbows and shit. Just make sure that you have clearance to easily and conveniently put a 5-gal bucket underneath the filter for when you change it.
 
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arse_sidewards said:
Getting everything you need to DIY a setup is like $100. Filtering the whole house is a waste of filter media. The overwhelming majority of home water usage comes from toilets, showers, laundry and garden. Those don't need to be filtered. If you're lucky your house is plumbed in such a way that a filter upstream of the kitchen sink will also cover the dishwasher and ice maker (if applicable).

I wouldn't fuck around adding extra valves and elbows and shit. Just make sure that you have clearance to easily and conveniently put a 5-gal bucket underneath the filter for when you change it.
Click to expand...

No it's not a waste. Did you even read his problem? His water heater is plugging up. I rarely ever drink hot water.
 
I installed a 4.5 x 20' whole house filter when I bought the place. Water is from a well and is very good, except for some sediment. Run a carbon filter and change it out every 12 months.
It may be worthwhile to get a water analysis and taylor your filter to whatever is causing the buildup.
I didn't get a tankless water heater because I was worried about it scaling up with all ath calcium in the water here.
 
arse_sidewards said:
Getting everything you need to DIY a setup is like $100. Filtering the whole house is a waste of filter media. The overwhelming majority of home water usage comes from toilets, showers, laundry and garden. Those don't need to be filtered. If you're lucky your house is plumbed in such a way that a filter upstream of the kitchen sink will also cover the dishwasher and ice maker (if applicable).

I wouldn't fuck around adding extra valves and elbows and shit. Just make sure that you have clearance to easily and conveniently put a 5-gal bucket underneath the filter for when you change it.
Click to expand...

Yeah the problem is the water is running through the WS then through the water heater and plugging up the filter there. So at this point I can only imagine what the city water is doing to my WS.
 
aron82 said:
I installed a 4.5 x 20' whole house filter when I bought the place. Water is from a well and is very good, except for some sediment. Run a carbon filter and change it out every 12 months.
It may be worthwhile to get a water analysis and taylor your filter to whatever is causing the buildup.
I didn't get a tankless water heater because I was worried about it scaling up with all ath calcium in the water here.
Click to expand...

That’s beginning to be more of a concern now seeing the WH filter...scaling issues.
 
junkytj said:
Yep, it's doable, get 2 standard 4 x 20 cartridge housings, cut the house inlet put in a tee with a valve on the two outlet legs, plumb in the housings to one outlet leg, put another valve on the outlet of the last housing. Run a line back to the first cut from the outlet filter valve and put in another tee and reconnect the from the other valve from the original cut and the rest of your shit. Now you have filtration and a bypass. You can run whatever you want in the housings. If you want more pressure, run the two housings in parallel, if you want down to 1 micron, run them in series and do 2 stage so you don't plug so fast.

You should be in all that for less than $300 if you self install.

I would also put in a drain leg on the filters with a valve so you can change cartridges without getting soaked. Also a pressure gauge on each side of the filters will tell you when it needs to be changed.

https://www.filtersfast.com/Pentek-...MIzcaFkdeF7wIVeP_jBx3taQfREAQYASABEgIwc_D_BwE

Note mounting brackets and cartridges are separate. Go ahead and get the wrench also. Spin them on hand tight, but it takes the wrench to loosen them.
Click to expand...

Kinda got it. A visual would help. But I think I’m getting it.
 
72blazer said:
Yeah the problem is the water is running through the WS then through the water heater and plugging up the filter there. So at this point I can only imagine what the city water is doing to my WS.
Click to expand...

FWIW, your water softener may be reacting (or allowing a reaction to continue) that is causing the slime and filtration will do fuck all.
 
72blazer said:
Kinda got it. A visual would help. But I think I’m getting it.
Click to expand...

I can take a pic of mine tonight and label it, but you are just breaking the line, and adding a loop and reentering the same line. Everything else is just to make maintenance easier.
 
Splib said:
This is just a comment, I wish I could offer constructive information. Why the fuck is CITY water shitty and gumming up his junk ? WTF ?
Click to expand...

Because TX and OK both neighbor me, most of both states have trouble finding good source water. Then you have to put anticorrosion shit in there because the engineers at Flint fucked up. That anti corrosion shit reacts based until it runs out of shit to react. When you re-introduce a bunch of alkalinity to the water and give it some place to collect, it will slime shit up. In short, shitty source water and shitty regs.
 
72blazer said:
That’s beginning to be more of a concern now seeing the WH filter...scaling issues.
Click to expand...

I'm on a well and my water is super clean, but hard. So hard it clogs up coffee makers, shower heads, etc.. I didn't want to go with a salt or potassium based system, so I ordered this, it's highly rated and I can tie it right into my soft water loop. It'll be here tomorrow and I'll install it this weekend. Don't know how long it will take to make a difference, but I'll clean all the shower heads with CLR in an ultrasonic cleaner and see if they stay clean longer.

As far as your manifold goes, if you have one it should be near the water heater or in some sort of dedicated closet. If you don't know if you have one, you probably dont'.
images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQEgyu1qdUb1sXDdaz7IgZ8WzmtImottNCMyg&usqp=CAU.jpg
 
Splib said:
This is just a comment, I wish I could offer constructive information. Why the fuck is CITY water shitty and gumming up his junk ? WTF ?
Click to expand...

Because its the city and its probably running thru 70 year old pipes on the way to his house.
 
Our water is fucking hard and dusty. I am installing a whole house 50 micron filter in preparation for a water softener going in next week.
 
I was trying to finish before a conference call, but wanted to clarify on the shit cities have to put into the water that may be causing problems because you may not fix your problem with the filter. It won't hurt, but may not help.

Because of Flint leaching lead into the water which became more corrosive, municipal water plants are now required to put a protective chemical in to coat the metal pipes to keep heavy metals from leeching into their water. This chemical oddly enough is some form of aluminum salt. The reaction requires the sacrificial electrons from the metal and some alkalinity. Once the protective slime is in place, no other electrons are available and the reaction stops. Also when there is no more alkalinity available the reaction stops. In areas with shitty water, we often have hard water with no alkalinity, so to get the coating they have to dump the chemical to it so the chemical is not the limiting factor when the electrons and alkalinity are there.

You mentioned the basket is copper. See if they have a plastic version or just put a plastic filter right in front of the water heater and remove the basket. I would try that if it is really a slime and not sediment in the basket.
 
Thanks for the info. Doing some research on those to see if they’ll be adequate in an outdoor application with hot temperatures and humidity but out of direct sunlight. Thinking the best place to plumb is the exterior copper line into the house. I’ll grab some picture of that and where my WS/ WH are located in the closet.
 
junkytj said:
I was trying to finish before a conference call, but wanted to clarify on the shit cities have to put into the water that may be causing problems because you may not fix your problem with the filter. It won't hurt, but may not help.

Because of Flint leaching lead into the water which became more corrosive, municipal water plants are now required to put a protective chemical in to coat the metal pipes to keep heavy metals from leeching into their water. This chemical oddly enough is some form of aluminum salt. The reaction requires the sacrificial electrons from the metal and some alkalinity. Once the protective slime is in place, no other electrons are available and the reaction stops. Also when there is no more alkalinity available the reaction stops. In areas with shitty water, we often have hard water with no alkalinity, so to get the coating they have to dump the chemical to it so the chemical is not the limiting factor when the electrons and alkalinity are there.

You mentioned the basket is copper. See if they have a plastic version or just put a plastic filter right in front of the water heater and remove the basket. I would try that if it is really a slime and not sediment in the basket.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I’ll grab pics tonight but I did not see any type of basket before the WH that I noticed. I’ll double check. The particles in the filter did not feel slimey.
 
junkytj said:
Because TX and OK both neighbor me, most of both states have trouble finding good source water. Then you have to put anticorrosion shit in there because the engineers at Flint fucked up. That anti corrosion shit reacts based until it runs out of shit to react. When you re-introduce a bunch of alkalinity to the water and give it some place to collect, it will slime shit up. In short, shitty source water and shitty regs.
Click to expand...

Well fuckkkkk meeeeeeeeeeeee. "Things you miss about California" :flipoff2: Never in my entire nearly 7 decades on tis planet have I heard of water problems like these. It is hard imagine the .gov failing so miserably :laughing:
 
72blazer said:
TL; DR-recommend an efficient but inexpensive inline outdoor whole house water filter.


Once I did that, I noticed a lot of copper color like sediment in the filter but thought no way this could be the problem as it was a thin film coating the filter.
Click to expand...

72blazer said:
Thanks. I’ll grab pics tonight but I did not see any type of basket before the WH that I noticed. I’ll double check. The particles in the filter did not feel slimey.
Click to expand...

I mistook your description of thin film as slime. If it is sediment, carry on with you filter project.
 
Splib said:
Well fuckkkkk meeeeeeeeeeeee. "Things you miss about California" :flipoff2: Never in my entire nearly 7 decades on tis planet have I heard of water problems like these. It is hard imagine the .gov failing so miserably :laughing:
Click to expand...

It's hard for me to imagine someone stating something they like about California and sarcastically not imagining .gov problems in the same thread, much less the same post. :flipoff2:
 
Well I read up to the "what do i need" bit...
my first though is this...
do you know what softener resign looks Like?
copper color sand.
if you re experiencing this issue from resign fracture clogging the wh throw a y strainer behind the softener, or better yet...
replace the discharge tube in softener.
A whole house filter is just 1 more thing to maintain, the softener should catch all the b.s. And backflush it .
 
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