Pinion depth tool

[abrogate]

I’m in the market for a pinion depth tool. I’ve seen cheap options like the one Proform offers and then the expensive type that use the pucks and cross bar.

The two axle I have right now that I am going to be doing gears on are a Bronco 44 and 9”. My buggy has a KP D60 and a 14b. I also have a FJ40 project that will get gears/lockers possibly next year, but it seems like the expensive options don’t include bearing pucks for Toyota’s. I’ve never set up a Toyota R&P, but I have seen the Toyota SST specifically for 40 series third members.

Are the cheap ones a PITA and not worth the hassle?

Any recommendations? I’ve been eyeballing the T&D Machine option.

 

[wrath]

I have the Proform one and a couple Ratech ones.

I have used the Proform twice to make sure I was in the ballpark when I wasn't happy with the pattern. I suppose it could be a faster way than lifting the carrier in and out repeatedly but it's not a bad job with a case spreader if you don't have the arms of a 12 year old girl.

Usually I just compare the numbers on the pinion of the gears I took out and the shims that were on it... then compare the pinion numbers on the gears I'm putting in... and shim appropriately.

 

[total newb]

 

[abrogate]

I expected this type of response.

 

[wrath]

To be honest, I never bother with a pinion depth tool until I have declared myself unfit to set up gears. Then I do it as a sanity check. So far it's always been a gear problem and not a me problem... but eventually I'll go full ******.

If I didn't use a case spreader, I'd probably use a pinion depth gauge every time. But when you can literally plop the carrier in there without fighting it... the setup of the pinion depth tool seems like a PITA.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Zip tie 1,2,3, blocks together and then shove nuts and washers in the remaining space and then mic those.

 

[1oddtech]

You all measure depth? I just compared the numbers on the end of the pinion and added or subtracted to set my initial pattern.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Apologies if this is ignorant, but why measure Pinion depth? Pinion bearing preload needs to be measured, then the Pinion depth and ring gear position are dictated by the pattern right?

I feel dumb not knowing what this tool achieves, considering I've set up a few d60 fronts, a few 14b rears, and a few Toyota 9.5" diffs, lol.

 

[total newb]

Apologies if this is ignorant, but why measure Pinion depth? Pinion bearing preload needs to be measured, then the Pinion depth and ring gear position are dictated by the pattern right?

I feel dumb not knowing what this tool achieves, considering I've set up a few d60 fronts, a few 14b rears, and a few Toyota 9.5" diffs, lol.

Cheat code to getting the pinion to spec depth.

Never mind that every gear set, brg and housing are different.

If you have an empty housing (no existing stack) it makes it go a lot faster.


Ive done about 2000 diffs, but only a handful were naked builds where i had no existing stack.

 

[abrogate]

It seems that the consensus is that it is most don’t use a pinion depth tool, whether professionally or shade tree. I too have done a few gear sets without a pinion depth tool. I get it.

My question remains: for those who have used and/or do use a pinion depth tool, do you have any insight to offer? Which tool is it? How do you like it? Is it worth the money? Do you wish you have had a different type and why? Thanks wrath for your input.

 

[Byro]

I have the Yukon kit. Got it for cheap off the Summit Racing scratch and dent (the perks of living 10 minutes from one of their stores) I’ve used it 3-4 times. It works great, but now I’ve become proficient with gear setup that it now takes me more time to set the tool up, measure, then make 2-3 pinion adjustments than it does to just setup with the factory shim, read pattern and make 2-3 pinion adjustments. It now sits in my tool box and collects dust.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Pinion depth tool is a tool for commercial settings where someone with minimum training needs to be able to crank them out accurately.

 

[Sluggy]

It's 10:45pm and it's too late to call my buddy and ask questions.

So bump on this for people who've used the t&d kit with 123 blocks. I picked up a "naked" front d60 housing that had no carrier, bearings or ring and pinion. I'm trying to set this up with the least amount of trial and error. Borrowed this tool from my buddy and it's my first time doing it this way.

So I zero the dial gauge with this spacer.

Set the block to the 2" height and add the small spacer.

So I'm showing .088 on the dial

 

[Alexis700]

I just start with the shims that were in the housing and go from there.

No need for a depth tool imo. Instead of messing with that tool I would throw .015" of shim in it and check pattern. Adjust pinion depth from there.

I made setup bearings for Dana 60s, die grinder a inner pinion bearing and carrier bearings. Takes 10 minutes to check pattern and change shims for another check.

 

[arse_sidewards]

I made setup bearings for Dana 60s, die grinder a inner pinion bearing and carrier bearings. Takes 10 minutes to check pattern and change shims for another check.

And eventually after enough diffs you wind up with a whole jar of setup bearings that's capable of covering 99% of the **** you work on.

 

[Landslide]

I only see them handy if you got a diff with the guts out of it and no idea where to start. But if you’re rehearing a diff with gear set in it already that has a good pattern, then those tools are useless imo

 

[PAToyota]

I picked up a "naked" front d60 housing that had no carrier, bearings or ring and pinion.

I just start with the shims that were in the housing and go from there. No need for a depth tool imo.

I only see them handy if you got a diff with the guts out of it and no idea where to start.

Ummm... Folks? Read much?

 

[Alexis700]

Ummm... Folks? Read much?

Um, I said in that case just start with .015" of pinion shim and adjust from there. But you selectively quoted the post.

Faster than messing with the depth tool.

 

[Landslide]

I’d say the case spreader tool is the only thing worth having in this discussion. I could see it if you built a lot of diffs with the guts already removed and you didn’t have a starting point.

But, more tools the marrier I think. It’s also whatever works best for you as well.

 

[Sluggy]

This is my first 60 that I'm doing and don't have the old bearings to ream out. Just finished a 70hd a month ago but it had the original 4.10 set to get me in the ballpark on the depth/ rest of the setup.

I don't want to go buy new bearings to just ream for a one time job.

I don't really understand the formula

3.8125 for the carrier race so half of that should be center 1.906
2" using the 123 block
.125 for the piece that sits on top of the 123 bock
.088 on the dial + 3.375 for the long extention

What's the master housing dimension for a front gm kp dana60?

 

[bdkw1]

Ground straight edge, dial calipers and a setup bearing. Easy peasy with stuff I've got laying around.

 

[Alexis700]

I dont know how you would even do a dana axle without setup bearings.

No matter how you measure for pinion depth, 100% chance you are going to have to pull pinion and try different shims. And change carrier shims for backlash everytime you try a new pinion shim stack.

So in order to do the job, you need carrier bearings and a inner pinion bearing that will slide on and off.

I order whatever bearings are on closeout from rockauto for my setup bearings, like $30 to get them for a dana 60.

 

[Sluggy]

Looks like I'll be calling T&D machine tomorrow to see if they can help me on my setup. Hoping they have updated directions and can give me the case measurements/formula.

 

[PAToyota]

It looks like the instructions on their website are the same as the ones you have: https://tdmach.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/instructions_deluxe-pinion-checker-11148-min.pdf

They do have a video:

T&D Machine Products :: Product Instructions and Technical Notes

Video Tutorials, Instructions and Technical Notes for T&D Machine Shaft Mount Rocker Arms, Tools and Products.

tdmach.com

 

[total newb]

This is my first 60 that I'm doing and don't have the old bearings to ream out. Just finished a 70hd a month ago but it had the original 4.10 set to get me in the ballpark on the depth/ rest of the setup.

I don't want to go buy new bearings to just ream for a one time job.

I don't really understand the formula

3.8125 for the carrier race so half of that should be center 1.906
2" using the 123 block
.125 for the piece that sits on top of the 123 bock
.088 on the dial + 3.375 for the long extention

What's the master housing dimension for a front gm kp dana60?

And there ya go folks, thats how worthwhile p depths tools are.



Fwiw, the last time i got asked how to ise one was a goofy **** system that was a modle specific j leg that rested in the brg journal, ended up adding an extra step at the end to get the base line #.
Final measurement 1/2'd, X.5, ÷2

 

[Landslide]

I dont know how you would even do a dana axle without setup bearings.

No matter how you measure for pinion depth, 100% chance you are going to have to pull pinion and try different shims. And change carrier shims for backlash everytime you try a new pinion shim stack.

So in order to do the job, you need carrier bearings and a inner pinion bearing that will slide on and off.

I order whatever bearings are on closeout from rockauto for my setup bearings, like $30 to get them for a dana 60.

Yep, and fawk pressing bearings on and off to setup

 

[Sluggy]

PAToyota thanks for the updated directions, that did help but I still had to call t&d to double check what I was doing.

So the master dimension for a dana 60 is 5" and I was using the wrong plate on the 123 block. I now understand how to use this tool after a quick talk with t&d.

My quick scratch drawing shows that I need a .065 shim to start with depending on any plus or minus that the pinion gear might read.

Hope this helps the next person trying to figure one of these tools out.