Original Rover V8 engine swapping

[IowaOffRoad]

I've had thoughts of pulling a Rover V8 from the junkyard for years, converting the engine management to TBI/MPI GM (or even a carb) as a lightweight engine swap option in a light rig (Toyota or similar). There are more than a few of these in the junkyards around here and I like light and different.

How dumb is this idea? What are the biggest roadblocks to a swap like this? What would be the best hardware to start with? How reliable is the longblock? What are the most common failure points and what can be done to erase them? Is there any way to do this on a budget or are all the Rovor-specific parts a person might need uber-expensive or unobtainable. The engines that show up in the junkyards are usually the 4.0/4.6 versions. Has anyone in Rovorland done something similar?

No current plans, but more information would certainly help with the decision-making. Before 'sirch newb', I posted here because I trust the comments here slightly more than random google searches

 

[Gatorgrizz27]

The 4.0/4.6’s in junkyard Disco 2’s are there because of fucked engines.

 

[IowaOffRoad]

The 4.0/4.6’s in junkyard Disco 2’s are there because of fucked engines.

I’m curious, fucked how? Spun bearings, broken crank/rod, burned/broke piston/valve, blown/cracked head(s)? There’s still some on the road driving, what’s the failure mode?

 

[Gatorgrizz27]

They enjoy blowing head gaskets and overheating primarily, which often cracks the blocks.

Theres also a myriad of other problems.

The last word on Land Rover liner failures - I hope!

Thoughts and advice on caring for Rolls-Royce, Land Rover, and other fine European automobiles from John Elder Robison, owner of JE Robison Service.

robisonservice.blogspot.com

 

[Dougal]

I’m curious, fucked how? Spun bearings, broken crank/rod, burned/broke piston/valve, blown/cracked head(s)? There’s still some on the road driving, what’s the failure mode?

Mostly slipped liners. Which if you're planning to do an engine rebuild isn't the end of the world.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

If you want a small cheap light V8, look at the cadillac 60* V8s.

Aluminum block!............. Iron heads..

 

[Donk]

They're not exactly lightweight either ~370-440lbs depending on installed equipment.....

 

[YotaAtieToo]

They're not exactly lightweight either ~370-440lbs depending on installed equipment.....

Which is aluminum LS or GM 4.3 territory.

Quick Google says the 'lac 60* V8s are "around 300 lbs" I think if I had to have a V8 and wanted something light and a little odd, they aren't bad. There is a weird niche following for them, but not enough that they have any value.

GM 60* means you can use about any trans you would ever want to run. 700r4, 904, asin aw4, ax15/r15x, I think even some granny low 4 speeds and of course the stock transaxle if you want a V8 transaxle buggy

 

[Donk]

Which is aluminum LS or GM 4.3 territory.

I also should have added the (EFI) 4.0 is rated to 190hp/236ftlbs and the 4.6 220hp/300ftlbs so the power to weight ratio isn't particularly brilliant. Tuning potential kinda sucks due to restrictive heads and pushrods that turn into wet noodles above 4k.

Bare minimum for a reliable build would be to replace the stock tapered liners with top hat liners which is pretty standard procedure over here and typically costs £60-£100 per cylinder. Getting any real power out of them requires either a blower or big valve heads. For reference TVR managed to get 340hp/350ftlbs out of their 5.0L version.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Doesn't sound remotely worth it

 

[Donk]

Doesn't sound remotely worth it

Stateside? Hell no!
Over here? It's still cheaper to pick up an imported stock LS than try build a Rover V8 that matches it. They're something I've looked into in the past for a project and ended up discounting them. The only reason I could see for using one would be if you were building an MGB-GT or some other small classic British sports car and wanted to stick with a pre EFI British V8. A modern turbo 4 banger would be a much better choice for a lightweight sub 300hp build and you guys get some good junkyard options over there.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Stateside? Hell no!
Over here? It's still cheaper to pick up an imported stock LS than try build a Rover V8 that matches it. They're something I've looked into in the past for a project and ended up discounting them. The only reason I could see for using one would be if you were building an MGB-GT or some other small classic British sports car and wanted to stick with a pre EFI British V8. A modern turbo 4 banger would be a much better choice for a lightweight sub 300hp build and you guys get some good junkyard options over there.

If they were lighter, it would make more sense. There is something cool about a 300 lb V8, even if it's not a powerhouse.

This isn't light or powerful

It's super boring, but the gm 4.3 is probably the answer. Or go Buick 3800. There is a 3.4 version with aluminum heads that is supposed to be pretty light.

V6s do just sound gay though

 

[IowaOffRoad]

Y'all have convinced me this is a dumb idea. Maybe not arti dumb, but certainly sounds better on paper than in reality.

Please someone do this and post build thread here so we can all see how dumb it is

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Y'all have convinced me this is a dumb idea. Maybe not arti dumb, but certainly sounds better on paper than in reality.

Please someone do this and post build thread here so we can all see how dumb it is

Did you look at the cadillac 60 * V8s for shits and giggles?

 

[IowaOffRoad]

Did you look at the cadillac 60 * V8s for shits and giggles?

Cadillac High Technology engine - Wikipedia

Yes I have. Unfortunately there’s more late model rovor v8s left around here than 84-95 caddys. I think if you gathered up 4-5 of these engines they’d be fun to play with.

 

[Donk]

Y'all have convinced me this is a dumb idea. Maybe not arti dumb, but certainly sounds better on paper than in reality.

Please someone do this and post build thread here so we can all see how dumb it is

Don't let us put you off

A junkyard Eaton M90 +TBi or carb with a lightweight intake manifold and only an alternator would probably see you near the bottom of the weight bracket and would be pretty torquey.....

 

[Gwagensteve]

The best thing about the rover V8 is the ZF auto and LT230* that are attached to it. Other than that, they're not especially durable, expensive to tune and are about par with a GM3800 for power and torque.

*but then there's also a 200/300Tdi with a ZF auto and LT230....

 

[Gatorgrizz27]

It doesn’t sound like there’s any particular reason you want a Rover engine, but if you do, look at the Jag AJ V-8’s. They are aluminum, bulletproof, and make good power, though they are around 440 lbs with accessories. Also only run about $1,500 on eBay.

I find it funny that I have a 1995 Range Rover with a 4.2L V8, it makes 200 hp.
The wife drives a 2008 Range Rover with a 4.2L V8, it makes 400 hp (supercharged).

 

[Tech Tim]

The Rover V-8s are not that bad.

They're originally based on the 215 Buick aluminum V-6 from 1960~ish.

Good primer article: https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/buick-215-cu-in-v-8

The early 3.5s and 3.9s had shitty fuel management, but swapping to aftermarket EFI will resolve those issues.

The 4.0s are better with extra ribbing and cross-bolted mains.

The 4.6s really seemed to be problematic. Maybe that extra stroke caused a lot of the issues? I never messed with those at all.

There is a fairly larger high performance following for those engines and you can do quite a bit, but they're no LS.

The wikipedia page is fairly decent with a wide range of info: Rover V8 engine - Wikipedia

 

[Roverhound]

When I rebuilt a 4.6 motor to put in my 2004 D2 I pinned the liners, installed a mild cam and used 4.0 pistons in place of the 4.6.
I used a guy out of Michigan for parts but damned if I remember the name of the shop. Pretty well respected in the Rover community.
As far as what Robinson service wrote, well, he's selling a service and I'll leave it at that.

 

[Tech Tim]

PDF covering pinning the liners:

 

[Chkn]

PDF covering pinning the liners:

That’s a cool read. Don’t need no machine shops 😂

 

[IowaOffRoad]

PDF covering pinning the liners:

This is the kind of hackfab genius I came to IBB for! Fuck it, someone with experiential knowledge needs to put together a low-buck build tip thread on these pinned to the top of the LR section. Between here and the rest of the interwebs this seems to be the numero uno reason not to fuck with these and this seems to be a good budget way to fix it that someone else has proved out.
Only thing I’d change is the addition of copious amounts of sleeve retainer.

 

[Roverhound]

I think pinning liners in engines has been around for a long time. It's not to uncommon in motorcycle engines.
I probably wouldn't choose the RV8 for a non rover project but really the engines are fine for their application.

 

[Roverhound]

Just remembered,

About

D&D Fabrications is the Aluminum V8 Specialists Worldwide. Featuring Buick & Olds 215 CI and Rover 3.5, 3.9, 4.0, 4.2 and 4.6 liter engines.

aluminumv8.com

 

[Tech Tim]

Just remembered,

About

D&D Fabrications is the Aluminum V8 Specialists Worldwide. Featuring Buick & Olds 215 CI and Rover 3.5, 3.9, 4.0, 4.2 and 4.6 liter engines.

aluminumv8.com

Thanks for sharing, I hadn't seen their page yet.



From their about page:

The demise of the "Camaro/Firebird" prompted me to go to American Axle & Mfg. where my similar skills were used to assist in the ultimate production the front suspension for the current Jeep Liberty.....

Now we know who to lay some of the blame on for the F'd up Liberty front suspension....

 

[Projectjunkie]

Going back to what you were seeking in the op, it seems there's a trend in a gm v6 right now, a 3.6 or something, small light cheap 300hp or so.

*found it, I think

BASE PRICE	$28,600 (est)
2016 Chevrolet Camaro RS
ENGINE	3.6L/335-hp*/284-lb-ft* DOHC 24-valve V-6

Looks like $1400-2000 in junkyards, probably 2200 for a pull out with harness

335hp is pretty respectable

 

[Roverhound]

Will Tillery is selling complete 4.6 long blocks for $1000 plus shipping.

4.6 Long blocks

Have several hovering around 100k miles. I am selling these as running motors but I am only guaranteeing they spin freely and are free of cracks/holes. They are perfect for the person looking to strip down and rebuild a 4.6. I have secondary air and non secondary. gems and Bosch. 1k each...

discoweb.org

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Going back to what you were seeking in the op, it seems there's a trend in a gm v6 right now, a 3.6 or something, small light cheap 300hp or so.

*found it, I think

2016 Chevrolet Camaro RS
BASE PRICE	$28,600 (est)
ENGINE	3.6L/335-hp*/284-lb-ft* DOHC 24-valve V-6

Looks like $1400-2000 in junkyards, probably 2200 for a pull out with harness

335hp is pretty respectable

More power than an early 5.3

I'm sure the V8 put out more low end, but still a good perspective. 300hp is plenty for most any rec wheelin.

 

[Poke]

Quest Auto sales in Corning NY is apparently a place where LR guys send junk from around the US for these types of projects.

They might be a source for info and parts. Last time I was in the back I saw 2 getting V8’s finished up.