Oreo, the Tremor Ford should have built

[Gbkeith]

You forgot the part about eating a bowl of dicks and fucking a blender

Drink some bleach, suck start a shotgun, gonna take a crane for about tree fiddy.

 

[Levigarrett76]

The middle school girls at the mall must be all over you spittin that game

 

[Barkbeetle]

Two questions.

1. Why not go 3 link?

2. Planning any steering upgrades?

1. Done right, a 3 link would require removing the complete passenger side axle weldment and putting the link in line with the axle, or close. I only have 9” of travel and I don’t need the free articulation of a 3 link. If I go crazy on this truck in the future with 14” coil overs, I won’t rule it out for that situation because it might need it.

2. Stock for now but I definitely don’t like the adjuster sleeves. If someone makes a 7075 aluminum setup for use on a Ford truck, I’ll probably upgrade for peace of mind. In my limited search, everything was this axle for a Jeep.

For the Carli question, the front coils are from them and the shocks are Carli tuned. Some of their stuff is worth buying and some is not. The Radius arms are not. Ford uses 100ksi steel to make a lightweight strong part for the intended purpose. Carli makes a very heavy 36ksi steel arm that does the same thing. Neither will articulate more than 3-4 inches. Look at any Carli truck in a poser shot and all the flex is in the back. I won’t buy radius arms from any company because it’s throwing money down the drain.

Purple and orange Santa showed up

l’m going to try the Mickey Thompson Baja Boss A/T. They check the boxes I’m looking for and the look great! I’m also a big fan of the bead grip technology and they are the only wheels I run now. I’ve had good success with them for several years now.

 

[rattle_snake]

...... I only have 9” of travel and I don’t need the free articulation of a 3 link.
..... Neither will articulate more than 3-4 inches. Look at any Carli truck in a poser shot and all the flex is in the back.

I would assume the articulation limit is the bushings on the axle.
9" of flex should be doable with radius arms. I get 10 out of mine with poly bushings (and a sway bar).

 

[Beat95yj]

Synergy now makes heat treated chromo steering for the superduty. It’s not aluminum but it’s plenty strong.
Oh, and it’s for a super duty axle in a super duty

 

[Barkbeetle]

I would assume the articulation limit is the bushings on the axle.
9" of flex should be doable with radius arms. I get 10 out of mine with poly bushings (and a sway bar).

I forgot to mention that the angle of the radius arms matters a lot. The early broncos and trucks are angled toward the center. My friends early Bronco has more than 12” at each corner with extended radius arms. The Superduty’s are parallel and that is bad for flex. When they are angled, there is a virtual pivot point at the intersection of the arms and the entire assembly can be visualized as a triangle with the pivot at the point where the arms would intersect if they were long enoug. When the are parallel, there is no virtual pivot point resulting in the bushings alone providing the flex.

I ran my 2017 Superduty with no sway bar and the truck still had negligible body roll on the mountain roads I drive daily. The linked setup on my 2022 has moderate body roll with the sway bar installed. If I took it off, it would roll too much for a DD.

 

[fl0w3n]

1. Done right, a 3 link would require removing the complete passenger side axle weldment and putting the link in line with the axle, or close. I only have 9” of travel and I don’t need the free articulation of a 3 link. If I go crazy on this truck in the future with 14” coil overs, I won’t rule it out for that situation because it might need it.

2. Stock for now but I definitely don’t like the adjuster sleeves. If someone makes a 7075 aluminum setup for use on a Ford truck, I’ll probably upgrade for peace of mind. In my limited search, everything was this axle for a Jeep.

For the Carli question, the front coils are from them and the shocks are Carli tuned. Some of their stuff is worth buying and some is not. The Radius arms are not. Ford uses 100ksi steel to make a lightweight strong part for the intended purpose. Carli makes a very heavy 36ksi steel arm that does the same thing. Neither will articulate more than 3-4 inches. Look at any Carli truck in a poser shot and all the flex is in the back. I won’t buy radius arms from any company because it’s throwing money down the drain.

Purple and orange Santa showed up

l’m going to try the Mickey Thompson Baja Boss A/T. They check the boxes I’m looking for and the look great! I’m also a big fan of the bead grip technology and they are the only wheels I run now. I’ve had good success with them for several years now.

Carli has pretty openly stated they build the radius arms because they sell and are bling, not necessarily because it’s an upgrade, so no surprise there. I talked to WFO Trevor a couple years back and he said they were considering more blingy radius arms for the same reason.

I was just asking to see if there was a specific weakness you saw as a reason to not just make it plug and play. Not knocking.

 

[fl0w3n]

I forgot to mention that the angle of the radius arms matters a lot. The early broncos and trucks are angled toward the center. My friends early Bronco has more than 12” at each corner with extended radius arms. The Superduty’s are parallel and that is bad for flex. When they are angled, there is a virtual pivot point at the intersection of the arms and the entire assembly can be visualized as a triangle with the pivot at the point where the arms would intersect if they were long enoug. When the are parallel, there is no virtual pivot point resulting in the bushings alone providing the flex.

I ran my 2017 Superduty with no sway bar and the truck still had negligible body roll on the mountain roads I drive daily. The linked setup on my 2022 has moderate body roll with the sway bar installed. If I took it off, it would roll too much for a DD.

I’ve been considering pulling my sway bar on my 21, I think that just convinced me.

 

[Barkbeetle]

I’ve been considering pulling my sway bar on my 21, I think that just convinced me.

You should try it. If you don’t like it, bolt it back on. While body roll pin the corners was about the same, small bump compliance and overall ride was much better.

 

[Barkbeetle]

With the front suspension put together, I moved to the back. The plan was to use the ultra soft PMF Deaver springs and compliment them with their long travel air bag kit. Here is how that went.

Stock F350 spring and shackle versus the 4.5” “lift” Deaver with the long travel shackle. A massive difference in spring rate and arc. I stood the Deaver up and measured 16” to the floor. That should translate to 15-16“ of wheel travel someday.

First, the Deaver center pins need to go. I learned a long time ago that their full thread butter bolts are junk. I was doing maintenance on my 07 Tundra that had them and when I pulled the pins they looked like a saw blade because they were so chewed up. Those also had 16” of travel and every time I articulated the suspension it put a bunch of stress between the leaves and the pin. Even with high grade bolts, I consider these a wear item and I watch them closely. I am very fortunate I didn’t break them on the trail.

With that fixed I proceeded with the installation. I put the springs in with the shackle in the last hole and mounted them. Dropping the truck on the ground and giving it a good bounce I immediately saw a problem. My truck was trying to be a rabbit! It was sitting 2” off of fully extended 13” travel shocks! According to the PMF rep, I should have been sitting 1” higher than the front with these. It is more like 6” higher and it clearly won’t work.

Clearly, I needed to take this setup down and start modifying. I pulled the leaf springs apart and removed a bunch of leaves. I took out the 5th, 7th, and everything below the second set of clamps and got the truck down to a reasonable height of 1” rake.

While I was not happy that I had to modify the springs, I was mildly amused that the springs easily clear the exhaust. Ford moved things around and there is plent of clearance to the tail pipe so I won’t need to mess with that.

With a spring setup that might work, I proceeded to install the airbag brackets. I immediately ran into alignment problems. The bags would not line up left/right or front/back. After several hours of head scratching, measuring and using my friend’s construction laser, I made the best of the situation. I extended the slots in the frame bracket (the middle hole is the original length) and drilled new holes in the spring pad mounts. This is what that looked like off the truck.

With the brackets modified, I had to add 6 degree shims and the shortest leaf to the top of the spring pack for the spring pad bag mounts to sit level with the frame mounts at ride height. I could not get a really good front to back alignment.

I got the truck on the ground and I installed the tires. I and pressurized the bags to 40 psi (specs are up to 90psi) and immediately saw a problem. I only had 3/8” clearance to the tires! I checked the frame side and it was only 3/8” as well. This is what that looks like.

PMF made no mention of wheel offset requirements, other than saying they won’t work on a dually. They have some work to do. I did some measuring and math to see where the actual tires and wheels would put things. The stock wheels are +40mm (1.57”) offset and my Methods are +18mm (0.7”). The stock tires have a 11.25” section width and the Mickeys have a 13” section width. The offset difference is 0.87” and the Mickeys are 0.875” wider per side, which puts the Mickeys in the same location as the stock tires with respect to the airbags. Clearly, this isn’t going to work as soon as I flex this out. I called PMF back and provided these picture. I am waiting to hear back on how they are going to address this.

 

[Barkbeetle]

Since the bags are not going to work, I removed them and and started to work on a home brew solution so I can still go on my trip at the end of the month. The bags have internal bump stops but with the bags and stock lift blocks removed, I needed some bump stop strike plates. Instead of dropping the bump stops with brackets, I went a different route and made some new weld on pads for the axle that keep the stock locations.

I looked at the stock springs and got an idea. The stock springs are twice as thick as the Deavers so I decided to make a mini “overload” set from a pair of the stock leaves. They have a mild arch and my first test was with them mounted upside down for the minimum effect. I will also mention that I was not planning on this approach so I also had to fabricate a pair of u-bolt spring plates since I was no longer using the huge airbag ones.

After installing all this, I immediately noticed that droop travel was substantially higher because the giant airbag plates were not flattening as much of the spring which limited travel. This setup will easily deliver 15” of travel with the right shock setup. While I was checking this out I also realized that the offset shock setup creates a 1” difference in travel from the left to the right. I knew about the difference because of the way leaf springs move but I did not anticipate how large the difference would be. With the shock behind the axle, you get 13” of travel. With it in front, you get 14” of travel with these 13” travel shocks.

I loaded all the 37’s and wheels into the bed to provide a 650lb load and this is what that looked like.

I went for a test drive and it road really soft, like a 70s Cadillac. I went down a local dirt road and flexed it out to see how everything looked.

The first thing I did is stuff the tailpipe into the dirt. Time for the sawsall!

Upon inspection, there are a few issues. The bump pads are very close to the spring plates and the overloads are not fully engaged, even when I am on the bumps.

Time to take it all part again and more work for the chop saw!

You may also notice that the shocks seem upside down compared to the way they come from Fox. In the normal orientation the forward shock gets sand blasted and the shock shaft gets pitted, which causes the seals to get destroyed. Once that happens, they leak and don’t work correctly. This orientation protects the shaft but the reservoir fitting is somewhat exposed. I plan on making a guard to clamp around the shock for protection but the whole thing is an experiment.

 

[Barkbeetle]

After driving it for a few days with all this riding in the bed, I decided to flip my mini overload pack and I trimmed the u-bolt spring plates for better clearance. I think I will have good clearance now but if not, I will go back to the factory U-bolt setup because that has lots of clearance. The spring flip was perfect and it struck the right balance of firmness versus compliance. The upside down setup would have been a little dangerous on the highway because it was so soft. I didn’t mention the axle shims yet. I had to put 4 degree shims in to restore the proper pinion angle. Even the stock lift blocks have a couple degrees. With the springs mounted directly to the axle, it needed more.

I got the wheels and tires put together and what a difference! Just like the Gladiator, this truck should come stock on 37s!

+18mm offset for no poke!

 

[Levigarrett76]

Hows the axle wrap with those?

 

[Beat95yj]

I would flip the shocks and run plastic guards on the rodend. Very similar to the raptor. I’m pretty sure you can buy them separate from Fox. Ask AccuTune or Poly Performance.

 

[Barkbeetle]

Hows the axle wrap with those?

Don’t know yet but, other Deavers I’ve had in the past were fine. Getting rid of the lift block is key. Spring under is even better. Linked is the best.

I would flip the shocks and run plastic guards on the rodend. Very similar to the raptor. I’m pretty sure you can buy them separate from Fox. Ask AccuTune or Poly Performance.

I have two votes to flip the shocks, yours and my best friend. I am hesitant of the durability of the fitting so I’ll probably go back. Raptor guards are for 2.5” or 3” shocks but with some creativity, they could probably work. I’ll look into it.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I get what you're saying about the supplied center pins being made of something slightly harder than cheese.

But really, if you're u bolts are tight, they shouldn't be seeing any load. Which is easier said than done with typical ubolts stretch.

The kit not working is so frustrating, that type of stuff boils my blood. I don't get how companies can sell kits that don't work and stay in business.

 

[mobil1syn]

I have two votes to flip the shocks, yours and my best friend. I am hesitant of the durability of the fitting so I’ll probably go back. Raptor guards are for 2.5” or 3” shocks but with some creativity, they could probably work. I’ll look into it.

i bet a moto fork guard would do the trick on those 2.0s.

also for bags check out full travel bags. buddy showed them to me a few weeks back. they use a shorter bag and removable section so the back only contacts when you need them.

 

[fl0w3n]

You should try it. If you don’t like it, bolt it back on. While body roll pin the corners was about the same, small bump compliance and overall ride was much better.

Pulled it, don’t know why I waited this long. Like you said, small bump compliance is improved and hitting driveways or rocks on the trail don’t risk knocking me out anymore from head snapping.

With that said… what’s your plan for skid plates? My gas tank skid did its job but only once. I’m scared of my plastic oil pan and low hanging oil filter.

 

[Barkbeetle]

Pulled it, don’t know why I waited this long. Like you said, small bump compliance is improved and hitting driveways or rocks on the trail don’t risk knocking me out anymore from head snapping.

With that said… what’s your plan for skid plates? My gas tank skid did its job but only once. I’m scared of my plastic oil pan and low hanging oil filter.

I’m glad you like it. I was worried about two things:
1. The plastic tranny pan
2. Shitheads steal my catalytic converters

Adressing 2. was the first addition to my truck and a google search for a cat guard led to the 1/4” aluminum skid plates I have from Talon’s Garage. It took a little work to fit right and I had to cut some of the massive plate off to clear the radius arm bolts and the front driveshaft at full droop with the slightly longer travel I have over stock (9” versus 7”). Much easier that a scratch build though.

 

[Barkbeetle]

I can‘t call this the Tremor Ford should have built without the Tremor air dam and winch. I love how tidy this mini 12,000 lb winch sits inside the factory bumper without any spacers and minimal effort. The Gladiator says hello to all the Jeep fans too.

 

[Barkbeetle]

With the outside shaping up, I turned my attention to the bed. I like things organized, including at higher speeds. This means stuff has to be strapped down. Stock beds are severely lacking tie down points so I built some bed organizers with lots of tie downs and places for gear.

The empty bed with the formed bed map that is very “tacky”. Stuff doesn’t slide much at all, I’m impressed.

Everything fits great and I love having an 8’ bed again. I don’t think I can go back to a short bed. On a typical 4 door 5’ bed truck, the shovel alone is longer than the bed! You won’t find me using a farm jack, I hate them because they are dangerous. I have had too many sketchy situations with one. I carry an ARB X-jack and a Hummer scissor jack. Both are simple, reliable and safe.

 

[fl0w3n]

I’m glad you like it. I was worried about two things:
1. The plastic tranny pan
2. Shitheads steal my catalytic converters

Adressing 2. was the first addition to my truck and a google search for a cat guard led to the 1/4” aluminum skid plates I have from Talon’s Garage. It took a little work to fit right and I had to cut some of the massive plate off to clear the radius arm bolts and the front driveshaft at full droop with the slightly longer travel I have over stock (9” versus 7”). Much easier that a scratch build though.

I came across those from Talons Garage in my searches, but wondered if they were up for the task. What do you think since you’ve got them in hand? Is it a multiple use product or will it need replacement after a real contact or two?
I’m on a slow release budget for the tremor so I barely will have budget to do just a Carli leveling kit with the back country shocks. 37s or 38s will come later after I wear down the stock tires.

Loving the way your truck is turning out. I love the idea of a single cab, but realistically couldn’t swing not having a crew cab.

 

[Barkbeetle]

I came across those from Talons Garage in my searches, but wondered if they were up for the task. What do you think since you’ve got them in hand? Is it a multiple use product or will it need replacement after a real contact or two?
I’m on a slow release budget for the tremor so I barely will have budget to do just a Carli leveling kit with the back country shocks. 37s or 38s will come later after I wear down the stock tires.

Loving the way your truck is turning out. I love the idea of a single cab, but realistically couldn’t swing not having a crew cab.

They are a lot better than nothing and they are 1/4” thick. They are not full rock crawling, slide over boulders construction and neither are any of the stock skid plates. For my purposes with the truck they will be fine, They stop rocks/branches/etc thrown by the front wheels from hitting the plastic transmission pan, they mostly keep grass away from the cats, and they will help the truck slide through mud, snow and dirt ruts. I’ll throw a jack under the middle just to see what they start to do with a concentrated load. Being aluminum they would get sticky on the rocks anyway.

 

[wvracer821]

I was shopping for my Ram this morning. I came across these and thought of your shock situation.

Shock Gravel Deflector

Precision laser cut 304 Stainless gravel deflectors for rear shocks that need to be mounted "body-down," because of packaging constraints. 304 Stainless steel. Fits 2.0" to 3.0" diameter shocks. 1/4" thick foam-rubber cushion on backside of plate to absorb shock.

www.thurenfabrication.com

 

[Barkbeetle]

Back to the suspension. Time for some flex testing.

I was truly impressed by the flex this truck now has. I struggled to get a wheel off the ground In a spot that could get all of my previous trucks to lift a tire and that is with the factory sway bar connnected. The gladiator will lift about 6” here, even with the sway bar disconnected. In all fairness, it would do just as well with an aftermarket suspension system. The Raptor was about the same because the IFS doesn’t articulate and the closest to this truck was my old 2007 Tundra with true long travel. That is the good and now for all the clearance checks. There are a few problems…

I was pretty sure the tire was going to contact the cab side of the fender, just like my 2017 alumiduty, and it does. More on this later.

Turning the other way, the tire contacts the front wheel well where the headlight support frame is. i‘m leaving this one alone for now and both are a good reminder that 37’s are a tough fit on a truck that will actually use the suspension travel. 38s would be significantly worse.

The coil clearance is good and these are +18mm offset wheels. 0mm offset wheels would give more here but they would cause greater fender contact at the front and cab side because of the larger swing radius.

This one surprised me. I expected to see contact between the link yoke and axle mount when flexed out. I was happy to see that it still cleared at full droop.

I was a little surprised how close the shock reservoir hose came to the tire and I don’t like it. If the tire contacts the hose I am pretty sure it could rip it off. I’m going to rotate the fitting a little to see if I can increase the clearance here.

Reservoir clearance is ok but there isn’t much left.

I had already trimmed the skid plate for the front driveshaft but it obviously wasn’t enough when I heard a terrible noise as I drove the truck into the flexed position. Fortunately this is an easy fix. More cutting.

 

[Barkbeetle]

To the back.

Really good stuff and pretty centered in the wheel well when flexed. I can’t complain about looking a little forward in the wheel well at ride height because it might cause issues if it was centered at ride height when flexing out. The +18mm offset helps here by letting the tire tuck inside the fender lip. There is a consequence though…

There is mild contact with the inner fender. I’m leaving this alone for now. I could put small wheel spacers in and get a little more room but there is another problem.

Leaf spring with this much motion have very interesting dynamics and the axle moves a lot under articulation. When the passengers side is stuffed it swings toward the exhaust and clears but smashing the drivers side looks like this.

Not Good, it sounded like fingernails on the chalkboard too.

As flexed out as the rear was, there was more to go. The drooped shock had more than an 1” of travel left and the compressed shock/bump stop also had more travel left. I also measured the bump plate to the foam bump stop and it wasn’t at the full 15-16” mark so I am pretty sure the tire contacting the inner fender plus getting into the higher rate springs is stopping it.

 

[Firstram]

Very nice, and the body still lines up!

 

[Barkbeetle]

Now to the fixes.

The cab side fender before

After removing the plastic piece, cutting, folding, and drilling.

Nice healthy clearance.

More skid plate removal. Look how mad that front u-joint was, it smashed the aluminum pretty good.

The gas tank skid plate before.

After redrilling the hole pattern 1” inboard and cutting off the bump.

Still hitting. Crap! Time for the BFH.

The BFH made some room where the skid plate bump was but the next interference is the gas tank strap.

The combo of the gas tank shield and gas tank strap are hitting the driveshaft and I don’t see an easy fix for this one. The one option seems to be a new driveshaft that is smaller in diameter. The other would be looking into the chassis cab rear mounted fuel tank. The driveshaft option seems easier and cheaper. For my upcoming trip, it’s staying like it is because I don’t have any hardcore stuff planned and I am out of time. I have one week left. This only happens under full flex toward the drivers side.

 

[TiTRD]

What bed mat is that?

Nice build!

 

[Barkbeetle]

What bed mat is that?

Nice build!

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