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NFW Ecobox donor cases

Absorption means fuck all if the heat is showing up faster than it's being dissipated to something external (the air). All it does is buy you a little more time before you have a problem.

Aluminum is pretty shitty insulation but it's still not zero so thinner aluminum between the oil and the outside will result in more heat making it outside.
 
arse_sidewards said:
Absorption means fuck all if the heat is showing up faster than it's being dissipated to something external (the air). All it does is buy you a little more time before you have a problem.

Aluminum is pretty shitty insulation but it's still not zero so thinner aluminum between the oil and the outside will result in more heat making it outside.
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This was my thought as well.

I've wondered before if you could find an electric motor heat sink big enough for an ecobox :laughing:
 

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The case is your heat sink. Which would you rather use....1/4"x2" AL flat bar or 1"x2" AL flat bar? I think you guys are worrying about this too much. Just run it and check/change the oil when you think it needs it.
 
I still think cutting a 2000 dollar case and making a reservoir/sump is the best bet. But I don't have the balls to do it. :lmao:
 
06h3 said:
All good! It wasn’t me it’s DMANbluesfreak but I posted about what he did
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Yep, that was me! Sorry for the delay replying.
fl0w3n said:
I don't see how "sharing" the fluid between either the trans or the second tcase helps without a pump. I seriously doubt that just by dumb sheer luck the fluid levels are going to balance out exactly as you want, and I'd wager it would put either both units at risk

Regarding the "issues" with the EcoBox, how many actual confirmed cases are we talking about here? I feel like this is just becoming internet legend, lots of heresay and lots of discussion on how to fix a problem it doesn't seem that anyone in this thread has actually had.

The only thing that gives credibility to it is NWF discussing it. When I called it was just a suggestion to put a pump on it if I were to drive long distances and to avoid frequent oil changes. It didn't sound like a necessity, but the alternative was frequent oil changes.

Maybe some of the UA alumni would know, but how often are the UA guys changing fluid in the ORD Magnums?
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fl0w3n said:
Sorry that wasn't worded clearly. What I recall from my phone conversation was that adding the pump and cooler, if you're someone who drives road miles, will allow you to extend time between fluid changes - the pump and cooler adds capacity so less need or risk of toasting the 0.75 qt or whatever.

Without the pump and cooler (adding capacity) it was my understanding you could still run on road but you would need to change fluid much more frequently to be safe. And running on road was clarified as basically non-trailered rigs. I'll be trailering my rig, and even running between end of trail back to the parking spot for a couple hours should be fine I was told.

The pump and cooler sounds pretty basic, the case already has all the provisions for it - threading two fittings in and plumbing/wiring a pump and plumbing a cooler. It's not like if the pump were to fail you're dead in the water like with a fuel pump. If the pump fails and you're for some reason on a cross country trip, just change the fluid a couple times :confused: If the pump fails and you're on a wheeling trip, just keep going, it doesn't sound catastrophic.

If sharing fluid was an easier solution I imagine NWF / ORD / Etc would have figured it out and be doing it.
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Doubleud said:
It seems like sharing ATF with the trans is the obvious way to go. All this adding external pumps and coolers is just overcomplicating things for no reason. The only downside to sharing fluid is the possibility of hurting the trans if the eco box sheds metal into the fluid.

On an uphill climb you do have trans fluid running back into the box but if your fluid level is correct thats a non issue, also the eco box adds volume to the trans case to account for he expansiin of the extra fluid.

On a downhill slope the fluid runs back to the trans but since the box is pressure fed its still getting plenty of lube.
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I've got over 40k miles on my EcoBox setup that has seen numerous 1000+ mile road trips under an 8000lb rig, one of which was over 1000 miles in one day and another of which was 2400 miles with ~7klbs in tow behind it when I moved from Chicago to CA.

Some more details on my setup - I have my trans cooler return line Tee'd to split fluid between the transmission and EcoBox. HOWEVER, Chris Bowman recommended I add an orifice so that most of the fluid goes back into the trans, as the return line on my 80E feeds cool fluid on top of the geartrain. Might not be necessary on all applications, but I'm running a .050" orifice on the Ecobox side. My calculations suggest that 95% of the fluid goes back to the trans, but the fluid in the Ecobox is replenished roughly every 10-20 minutes at highway speeds. I've never head overheating issues. EDIT: I removed the input seal on the Ecobox and it flows back into the transmission tailhousing. For the 4L80E, at least, there is a port in which fluid can flow back into the transmission pan from the tailhousing.

As for fluid flowing into the Ecobox on climbs- it does happen due to the port mentioned above. I have my trans overfilled by 1-2qts (after the additional capacity of the Ecobox) to make sure I don't starve the pump and lose drive when it does (I know from experience).

I don't think you need to worry about running a doubler on the road if you don't have this setup, but I was told by Stephen Watson that they typically change Magnum fluid every 6-8k miles (roughly every 2 oil changes). I think the Magnum has a bit more capacity than the Ecobox, but not sure.
 
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If you’re tee’d into the return, and that feeds the ecobox, where’s the supply from the ecobox going?
 
Ah yeah I didn't specify that. I removed the input seal on the Ecobox and it flows back into the transmission tailhousing. The 80E has a return port to put fluid back into the pan from this point (I assume it's the same casting for both 4wd and 2wd transmissions).
 
DMANbluesfreak said:
Yep, that was me! Sorry for the delay replying.





I've got over 40k miles on my EcoBox setup that has seen numerous 1000+ mile road trips under an 8000lb rig, one of which was over 1000 miles in one day and another of which was 2400 miles with ~7klbs in tow behind it when I moved from Chicago to CA.

Some more details on my setup - I have my trans cooler return line Tee'd to split fluid between the transmission and EcoBox. HOWEVER, Chris Bowman recommended I add an orifice so that most of the fluid goes back into the trans, as the return line on my 80E feeds cool fluid on top of the geartrain. Might not be necessary on all applications, but I'm running a .050" orifice on the Ecobox side. My calculations suggest that 95% of the fluid goes back to the trans, but the fluid in the Ecobox is replenished roughly every 10-20 minutes at highway speeds. I've never head overheating issues. EDIT: I removed the input seal on the Ecobox and it flows back into the transmission tailhousing. For the 4L80E, at least, there is a port in which fluid can flow back into the transmission pan from the tailhousing.

As for fluid flowing into the Ecobox on climbs- it does happen due to the port mentioned above. I have my trans overfilled by 1-2qts (after the additional capacity of the Ecobox) to make sure I don't starve the pump and lose drive when it does (I know from experience).

I don't think you need to worry about running a doubler on the road if you don't have this setup, but I was told by Stephen Watson that they typically change Magnum fluid every 6-8k miles (roughly every 2 oil changes). I think the Magnum has a bit more capacity than the Ecobox, but not sure.
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Good bit of info there from ORD which is basically the same idea that NWF has told everyone not running a cooler.

Kris at NWF now says to run 750 mL of oil in the newer ecoboxes with the scalloping inside.
 
DesertCJ said:
The case is your heat sink. Which would you rather use....1/4"x2" AL flat bar or 1"x2" AL flat bar? I think you guys are worrying about this too much. Just run it and check/change the oil when you think it needs it.
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I'm not sure how to explain it, but you're thinking about it totally wrong. You don't want the case to absorb heat, you want it to expell heat.

The heat sink adds surface area to help expell heat.

Maybe you should develop some trans coolers that are just a block of 3x3 aluminum with a 1/2 hole bored through it :homer::flipoff2:
 
YotaAtieToo said:
I'm not sure how to explain it, but you're thinking about it totally wrong. You don't want the case to absorb heat, you want it to expell heat.

The heat sink adds surface area to help expell heat.

Maybe you should develop some trans coolers😆 that are just a block of 3x3 aluminum with a 1/2 hole bored through it :homer::flipoff2:
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Maybe I'll just run my eco box and not give a shit. You're thinking about this all wrong:lmao:

You're heat sinks (stock case vs billet case)both have similar surface areas. The billet case has significantly more mass.
 
DesertCJ said:
Maybe I'll just run my eco box and not give a shit. You're thinking about this all wrong:lmao:

You're heat sinks (stock case vs billet case)both have similar surface areas. The billet case has significantly more mass.
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Yes, and I'm saying the thicker housing will hold the heat in more.

Weather or not it's enough to really matter is another debate, but I think your reasoning is backwards.
 
DMANbluesfreak said:
I've got over 40k miles on my EcoBox setup that has seen numerous 1000+ mile road trips under an 8000lb rig, one of which was over 1000 miles in one day and another of which was 2400 miles with ~7klbs in tow behind it when I moved from Chicago to CA.
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What tire size, gear ratio and cruising speed?

And did you have problems before teeing into the return?
 
DesertCJ said:
Maybe I'll just run my eco box and not give a shit. You're thinking about this all wrong:lmao:

You're heat sinks (stock case vs billet case)both have similar surface areas. The billet case has significantly more mass.
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You're the one who's thinking about it wrong. The case just transmits heat from the fluid to the air. All more mass is going to do is smooth over peak loads (not really applicable in this situation).
 
arse_sidewards said:
You're the one who's thinking about it wrong. The case just transmits heat from the fluid to the air. All more mass is going to do is smooth over peak loads (not really applicable in this situation).
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The statement was made that "I bet the stock case will shed heat better". I said that I doubt it. I'm not arguing that one is better than the other, more that the difference would be inconsequential for a problem that may not even be a problem.

Neither case will get hotter than the oil inside so it's a moot point. Run whatever...I don't think you're rig is going to explode.
 
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fl0w3n said:
Where's the "beating a dead horse" smiley
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Welp, I can't find it. But here's a gif I found long ago:

dead-horse.gif
 
arse_sidewards said:
What tire size, gear ratio and cruising speed?

And did you have problems before teeing into the return?
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40", 5.13s, 75mph without trailer. As fast as I can reasonably sustain with trailer (65-70 on flat, slower but LOTS of throttle in the mountains). Stock 5.3L and 4L80E.

Will Scarlet said:
Welp, I can't find it. But here's a gif I found long ago:

dead-horse.gif
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:lmao:
 
DesertCJ said:
The statement was made that "I bet the stock case will shed heat better". I said that I doubt it. I'm not arguing that one is better than the other, more that the difference would be inconsequential for a problem that may not even be a problem.

Neither case will get hotter than the oil inside so it's a moot point. Run whatever...I don't think you're rig is going to explode.
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Sure sounded like you were arguing the ecobox would be better :laughing::flipoff2:
 
The main issue is the lack of pressure fed oiling to the pocket bearing. The shaft isnt drilled and there is no pump. Could the windage be used in a way to solve the problem? Maybe, like a crank scraper in an engine. I think the solution is to run the oil level low, with a large external reservior and pump, and a single oil squirter pointed at the pocket bearing. Oiling the pocket will oil the planetary. This setup would be close to how the unit is oiled in a stock application. It really doesnt need a lot of oil to be happy, just more then none.
 
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