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Newbie rock crawler build questions

littleboss

Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2020
Member Number
2477
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12
I have been running RZR's since 2012 and I like rockcrawling. Instead of buying another (probably $35-40k Polaris) I am considering buying a rockcrawler chassis and build my own.

I am mechanically inclined and maintain and repair the three SXSs and farm equipment. I have a nicely equipped farm shop with Mig, Stick, plasma, Jet bandsaw, etc but I have no experience with building my own.

I do have bad elbows so I need something that's easy to steer- probably hydraulic steering and would like maybe 40" tires.

Got any ideas on where I can start? If I bought a chassis or chassis weld it myself kit and pieced the rest out what do you think it would cost? I am not too keen on buying somebody else's rig. Anytime I buy used I get screwed.

Thanks
 
Bebop said:
Buy a know good used rig and learn from buggy ownership for the next 2/3 years. Then build your own.

Building a buggy with no experience of the game is not the way to go IMO.
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^^^^^^
THis..
A from scratch buggy will put you in that 35-40K range anyways, a known good used buggy is a better idea, and you figure out what you like and don't like, and what works for you, you may decide building is or is not right for you, but blindly building a buggy off of what you think is best may not work out and could cost you more in the long run.

P.S.
I'm running beat to shit Toyotas So I could be full of shit:lmao::lmao::lmao:
 
I built my first buggy. Next one was built by someone else. It wasnt mine. That was a big deal for me. idk why. The best advice i can give you is find someone near you who is competent at building them and learn from them. There are millions of questions and issues you will run into, having a quick source of knowledge to bounce ideas off will pay off. IMO the most important parts of a buggy are proper suspension design and driveline function, keep that in mind.
 
I agree with the buy vs build thread and bunk 's comment about how important geometry is. There are so many things you can screw up and you won't really save much money. Comparing a SxS to a quality rock crawler is apples & oranges.
Some quick rough numbers to consider buy vs build
chassis $5k
Axles with lockers, shocks, brackets,etc $10k
motor $2.5k
Trans $1k
t-case $3k
There's $20k and you still need seats, harness's, steering, wiring, radiators, lights, gauges........................

I have a buddy who just finished a Goatbuilt buggy, who has built other rigs and raced for years. No skins or anything and I think he is north of $30k
His is the one with the white hood. JohnnyJ
IMG_6217.jpg
 
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Thanks for the responses. I would not build the chassis, I would buy it from Wide Open Design or the IBEX 2-Seat Complete Kit.

My '16 Polaris cost me $30k before I started adding stuff to it. I figure a new 72" Polaris will set me back around 40k when I am done so I am not against spending 40-50k

Also wasn't looking to necessarily save money but just have a project. About finished up my old tractor so time for something else..
 
I'm into my buggy build for $60k . . . and still counting. This is a ground up build with basically new everything.

Like others already suggested, you can save a lot and get a head start buying a running rig and then customizing to your needs or buying an in-progress project that somebody is giving up on.
 
I haven't built a buggy yet, but I am hoping to get started on one in the next year or so. Now that I've got that disclaimer out of the way, here's my advice.

Starting from scratch and not reusing any parts from a previous build, I would say you're looking at $25-30K MINIMUM. Buying used parts, doing all the work yourself, and saving money in the right areas, you might be able to put something together that isn't a complete turd in the low $20Ks. You can easily spend $50K+ with high-end parts (crate engine, tranny, axles, etc.).

Buying a used rig to help you get a better feel for what you want and how you want to build a rig from the ground up has merit; just don't go too cheap. A used rig that isn't a pile is going to cost you at least $20K. I understand your reluctance to buy used, I feel the same way. It is hard to find a used rig that is set up almost exactly the way you want. I also got burned before buying a used rig before as I was spending more time working on it and un-fucking it than actually enjoying it (although I knew it was a pile going in :laughing:).

I would highly recommend what I have been doing for the last year and riding/sitting in as many buggies as you can and going on runs with buggy guys to get a feel for what works and features that are important to you. There are so many little things I never would have considered had I not been riding in and watching other buggies. The other benefit is that you will make connections with people you can ask for help and advice from when you are planning or in the middle of your build.

Also, you need to figure out the style of buggy you want to build. For instance, are you wanting to build a cone-dodger/trail breaker style buggy, an Ultra4-style buggy, a bouncer, a family trail rig, etc. This will dictate the cost, parts, and chassis you want to go with.
 
Does hendrix still make FTOY chassis? Might be a good route for first time buggy building..
 
Mattygwheeler said:
Does hendrix still make FTOY chassis? Might be a good route for first time buggy building..
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Eh, with the cost of Toyota parts at or over domestic shit, it doesn't make much sense.

The idea of them was to:
a) turn an existing, working, rig into a buggy

B) compete in a spec class.

You can pick up a donor 5.3 for cheap, 05+ SD axles cheap, the connecting bits aren't too far off really.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
You can pick up a donor 5.3 for cheap, 05+ SD axles cheap, the connecting bits aren't too far off really.
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If you've put a buggy together you'll realize quickly that the cost of the engine and the donor axles are nothing in comparison to the rest.

Tires and wheels are 3+k$ alone. Chromo shafts, R&Ps, lockers, steering kit, coilovers with springs, seats and harnesses and bam you're at 10k.
And you're very far from being done.
 
Bebop said:
If you've put a buggy together you'll realize quickly that the cost of the engine and the donor axles are nothing in comparison to the rest.

Tires and wheels are 3+k$ alone. Chromo shafts, R&Ps, lockers, steering kit, coilovers with springs, seats and harnesses and bam you're at 10k.
And you're very far from being done.
Click to expand...

That was kinda my point, why use Toyota stuff, when a lot of the other stuff will be the same price.
 
Bebop said:
If you've put a buggy together you'll realize quickly that the cost of the engine and the donor axles are nothing in comparison to the rest.

Tires and wheels are 3+k$ alone. Chromo shafts, R&Ps, lockers, steering kit, coilovers with springs, seats and harnesses and bam you're at 10k.
And you're very far from being done.
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I agree, the finding donor drivetrain parts is the cheap and easy part of a crawler build.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
That was kinda my point, why use Toyota stuff, when a lot of the other stuff will be the same price.
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Oh I wasn't disagreeing with you at all.
Was trying to add to the argument actually.

I just rebuilt my first set of yota axles. Blown away by how much the parts cost. Not cheap at all.
 
Bebop said:
Oh I wasn't disagreeing with you at all.
Was trying to add to the argument actually.

I just rebuilt my first set of yota axles. Blown away by how much the parts cost. Not cheap at all.
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When you could pickup a good donor truck for $2500 or less, tcase for $100 and useable front axles for $250, they were great. Paying $7500 for a pos, $600 for a worn out bent axle, and $300 for a tcase, it doesn't make sense.

At least if you start with a pos 5.3, it will be mostly set up for a built one down the road.
 
I like the looks of TMR's chassis for something more race ready.
ca.tmrcustoms.com

TMR Customs DIY Tube Chassis Kit

CNC laser cut & notched from 2” x .120”W DOM tubingIncludes full set of blueprints and step by step assembly manualAll individual tubes are laser etched with part numbers for easy assembly Drivetrain designed around common GM LS Gen III/IV truck motors (4.8L, 5.3L, 6.0L, 6.2L), GM Truck...
ca.tmrcustoms.com ca.tmrcustoms.com

And i like Fabn801's Blade chassis for more of a WEROCK type crawler
www.fabn801.com

The Blade — Fabn801

The XL Rock Lizard shares the same overall dimensions with the Standard Rock Lizard but has been reinforced with 1.75” D.O.M. tubing all around. If you’re one who likes to get really precarious (A.K.A. rolls often), or has a bigger build without the extra height, this is the chassis for you.
www.fabn801.com www.fabn801.com
 
Where do you live and where do you wheel? What kind of terrain? What rigs do your friends have? What's your realistic budget?

If you scratch build a buggy on 40s and need enough power for wheelspin (East Coast style wheeling) you're looking at the quintessential "V8/Tonz/Fodeez" build that is easily $50k+ to DIY with new parts like others mentioned. Slower or more technical (West Coast) crawling, you can go lighter and less power if that's your thing.

Buying a chassis kit just gets you the tubes, you're on your own for suspension layout/geometry and drivetrain mounting and wiring and interior and all the other critical parts that make a rig work. Buying a roller gets past some of that but you're paying fab shop labor rates to get there.

As a noob to 4x4s you should probably buy something that's complete and works. Whether that's someone's $20k used garage built buggy, or a $40-50k used buggy from a pro builder, or a new $80-100k buggy from a pro builder, is up to you and your wallet. And if it's used get it inspected by a knowledgeable buggy/4x4 builder so you don't end up with a rig that has retarded suspension geo, or junk parts, or a crap chassis design.
 
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YotaAtieToo said:
When you could pickup a good donor truck for $2500 or less, tcase for $100 and useable front axles for $250, they were great. Paying $7500 for a pos, $600 for a worn out bent axle, and $300 for a tcase, it doesn't make sense.

At least if you start with a pos 5.3, it will be mostly set up for a built one down the road.
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+1
Sheit a set of used tons, an Atlas and the stupid ls/ trans combo is probably a third less than doing ANYTHING Toyota today...
 
Clb said:
+1
Sheit a set of used tons, an Atlas and the stupid ls/ trans combo is probably a third less than doing ANYTHING Toyota today...
Click to expand...

I mean, I'm not sure how prices are where you guys live, but I priced out and bought a fair amount over the last couple years in the PNW...

Yota duals $2200 (including core charge)
Atlas 4sp $3800
Black box + D300 + gears $3000+

BJ D60 front axle $800-1k
KP D60 front axle $1200-1400
14B rear $400-500
Built D60 $2500+
Built 14B $1k+

Stock Yota 8" front axle $700-800
Built Yota 8" front axle $1500ish
Stock Yota 8" rear axle $200ish
Built Yota 8" rear axle $800-1k

Complete 9.5" Yota stuff is worth close to double on the used market though due to scarcity. But for buying new complete diffs it's not much different.

Yeah, the days of cheap Yota parts are gone. But so are the days of cheap domestic parts too. Everything that's good for a wheeler is more expensive now and even junkyards know the value of parts. The only cheap way to get a set of 1 tons around here is to find a rolled/burned gas truck at auction and hope that you can snag it for under $2k. Even then you're bidding against rebuilders who might spend $4k on it in the hope to flip it for $15k.
 
Buy, wheel it for a year. Talk to everybody. Start collecting parts. Wheel more, ask more questions. Crawl under everything. Make a plan from everybody’s else’s mistakes and what worked.
 
I want to believe I have 20-25K into my buggy, but the reality is that it's likely north of that. I built it over a few years, so it didn't hit all at once. As I was finishing it up, there were packages arriving most every day. I'm sure with the finishing bits it'd went over $30K.
 
buy a buggy/ shoot for sub 10K you can get alot for that price who knows you may not like going slow crawling, maybe you need the v8 auto and some speed. like everyone else said you cant build one with out wheeling one to figure out your style and what makes you happy

keep us posted though
 
Yotota said:
I mean, I'm not sure how prices are where you guys live, but I priced out and bought a fair amount over the last couple years in the PNW...

Yota duals $2200 (including core charge)
Atlas 4sp $3800
Black box + D300 + gears $3000+

BJ D60 front axle $800-1k
KP D60 front axle $1200-1400
14B rear $400-500
Built D60 $2500+
Built 14B $1k+

Stock Yota 8" front axle $700-800
Built Yota 8" front axle $1500ish
Stock Yota 8" rear axle $200ish
Built Yota 8" rear axle $800-1k

Complete 9.5" Yota stuff is worth close to double on the used market though due to scarcity. But for buying new complete diffs it's not much different.

Yeah, the days of cheap Yota parts are gone. But so are the days of cheap domestic parts too. Everything that's good for a wheeler is more expensive now and even junkyards know the value of parts. The only cheap way to get a set of 1 tons around here is to find a rolled/burned gas truck at auction and hope that you can snag it for under $2k. Even then you're bidding against rebuilders who might spend $4k on it in the hope to f
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lots of differnt ways to build lots of ways to spend money. buy one wheel it. figure out what you like so dont throw stupid money going the wrong direction.
 
chaplinfj60 said:
lots of differnt ways to build lots of ways to spend money. buy one wheel it. figure out what you like so dont throw stupid money going the wrong direction.
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I definitely agree with ya there.

I've seen so many guys build rigs either over time, or even all at once, that ends up with a weird conglomeration of parts that don't really complement the use of the rig. Yota and Jeep guys are especially guilty... Small spring lift then bigger tires that break axles then bigger axles then even bigger tires that break drivetrain then upgrade drivetrain and then more power is needed so an engine swap oh and might as well link it because that's cool... then they are $$$ deep into a truck on a stock frame with a bunch of random parts stuck to it.

Instead, one can figure out what they need as the final form of the rig and build towards that goal. Pick a tire size and wheelbase/width to wheel the terrain you want to wheel, then pick axles to run those tires, then a drivetrain to turn the axles at the speed you need, and figure out what truck/chassis and engine works for that package. And pick suspension that works for that terrain and your budget. With some thought and foresight it's not hard to plan a cohesive truck/buggy.
 
chaplinfj60 said:
buy a buggy/ shoot for sub 10K you can get alot for that price
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A complete buggy for sub $10K? :laughing:

I've seen some fairly capable trail beaters for under $10K that need some work and un-fucking, but nothing that can truly hang with properly-built buggies or that is an actual buggy. Do you have an example of what you would suggest the OP buy in that price range?
 
just this spring a local buddy here got a 4 linked buggy with 6.0, turbo 400 205 and build 14 bolt and 60, we went to Oklahoma to RMR and he beat on this thing like mad and no drama, not saying there is not things to fix but it was a legit great start. i mean legit.

1635508706067.png
 
chaplinfj60 said:
just this spring a local buddy here got a 4 linked buggy with 6.0, turbo 400 205 and build 14 bolt and 60, we went to Oklahoma to RMR and he beat on this thing like mad and no drama, not saying there is not things to fix but it was a legit great start. i mean legit.

1635508706067.png
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Man, that would sell for at least $15k in my neck of the woods. Cool looking rig for sure.
 
he got that for 9 something but the Mofo sold it 4 months later for 15 i believe. irritating as all get out for sure.

the biggest he had was the stall was all wrong , it was like he had a light switch for a turbo 400, get up to 3500 and them it moves. all or nothing, it was rock bouncing uncontrolled to say the least. quite fun to watch though. hahahah
 
chaplinfj60 said:
he got that for 9 something but the Mofo sold it 4 months later for 15 i believe. irritating as all get out for sure.

the biggest he had was the stall was all wrong , it was like he had a light switch for a turbo 400, get up to 3500 and them it moves. all or nothing, it was rock bouncing uncontrolled to say the least. quite fun to watch though. hahahah
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He got a smoking deal if he picked that up for $9K :eek:

Definitely a capable rig, but not really what I'd consider a buggy. With the Toyota cab and exo cage it would be really wide for a lot of the "buggy" trails out west.

There were a couple of decent used buggies for sale on here recently that had what I thought were tempting prices if I weren't building a stupid race truck at the moment :laughing:

This one needed a little work, but for $16K I think it was pretty good deal.
Half Quart (Rock Buggy) for sale/trade $20K

This one was ready to go and was a solid build for $28K. I personally wasn't nuts about the 4 cylinder and Powerglide combo, but I know the rig works.
NM - Rock Buggy
 
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