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Meet my new little friend, Haas super mini mill

Bacho

Yellow Skull
Joined
May 26, 2020
Member Number
1536
Messages
377
Loc
Greenville SC
Been on the hunt about three years now for a CNC mill. I have come across several close candidates, but the door on my shop is a major constraint. Which is in another thread.

The other day I came across an auction listing for this 2004 super mini mill at a community college. They sold it as a parts machine only and will not answer any other questions about its condition. The super mini mill had not exactly been on my radar, but some quick research showed that the same as the mini mill but a three phase only machine. I also found a thread were guys talked about getting it through a door that was a short as mine.

When the auction day finally came around. I told my wife I had a $2500 max bid on it. But you know how auctions go. I got outbid and had to run the guy up. I wound up winning it for $3600 bid which was $4200 out the door. My wife, a certain day or her disappointment in me sticking to my numbers. :lmao:

The college was in Southern Georgia just about five hours away. I called them the next morning and verified they would assist me with a forklift and was on my way. It rained the entire trip down but as luck would have it, the sun came out when I got there. Loading it was dry and relatively painless.

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While I was on site, I started asking around as to what exactly was wrong with this machine. The maintenance guy came over, opened up the back panel and pointed at the vector drive box. It looked really big and expensive, but on the way out of the parking lot I googled it and found a rebuilt service for about $1200 I immediately started feeling a lot better about the entire thing.

Driving home was almost uneventful I managed to avoid rain. 100 miles away from home the transfer case on the truck sounded like it was eating itself. I could tell by the sound that was the chain slapping around inside of it. Pulled over and yanked the front drive shaft. You have to love torx fasteners, one of them was stripped, and required being chiseled off. With the shaft removed the t case sounded happy again. Another project for another day.

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Once I got to the shop, this mini mill didn’t start looking very little at all. It occurred to me that I never had considered how wide the machine was fitting through the door. The door was 6 feet wide. As it sat the machine was about eight or 9 inches too wide. I remove the back door of the machine loosened and move the arm, holding the control box over as well as removing the back plate of the control box. Got it to where we had 1 inch room to spare total on the sides and about half an inch on the top. From reading online, I was advised to remove the Z servo motor. This turned out to be unnecessary and rather pointless. As there was plenty of sheet metal higher than that motor.

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I called in some help for extra eyes and we were able to get it shoved inside after about an hour of screwing around with it. Once inside, put it back together and got it powered up. And was seemingly able to quickly confirm the fault that the college had said.

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The Haas website has a pretty good trouble shooting guide on the subject. A friend and I will run through all of that and confirm the box first. He feels pretty confident that we have a pretty good chance of fixing the box ourselves if it comes down to it.

Overall very pleased with the purchase and pretty excited to get it working and learning how to use it.
 
Nice! Did you get any tooling with it?

When we got our new VF9, I had the take the control panel off to get it through the 10' roll up door. Good times.
 
Unfortunately, it didn’t include any tooling. That’s gonna be a painful trip to Travers to get started.

My friend spent the afternoon troubleshooting on it. By the way, it does have a 9700 hours and 6500 tool changes.
 
Power on time or spindle time?

9700 hours of power on time ain't shit for a machine 19 years old. That's 4.5 years in a 40 hour a week shop.
 
That’s power on time.

In my friends troubleshooting he was able to accomplish everything on the guide, except for measuring the active voltage from the DC bus to the vector motor Drive terminals. It popped the 115V CB immediately when performing that. He’s researching why that’s happening now. There’s nothing wrong with the vector drive from a visual inspection.
 
Unfortunately, it didn’t include any tooling. That’s gonna be a painful trip to Travers to get started.

My friend spent the afternoon troubleshooting on it. By the way, it does have a 9700 hours and 6500 tool changes.


40 taper? Stay way from the import stuff, but that's pretty much the most common taper and there's a shit ton of tooling out there fairly cheap. Also, watch the auctions down your way and around Charlotte. I see 20 to 30 to 40 tool holder packages going for a few hundred bucks all the time. And don't cheap out on pull studs.


I got a couple crates of holders when I bought the Fadal, but I'm still on the lookout for more.
 
Meh, I bought a bunch of holders off Amazon. They are not bad. The ER collets on the other hand are pretty poor quality.
 
:smokin:

what are the travels? Or did I miss them
TRAVELSS.A.EMETRIC
X Axis16.0 in406 mm
Y Axis12.0 in305 mm
Z Axis10.0 in254 mm
Spindle Nose to Table (~ max)14.0 in356 mm
Spindle Nose to Table (~ min)4.0 in102 mm


Cool little machines. Basically about the travels of a knee mill with a little extra Z...and a full enclosure.

Current models come with a 10k spindle and 15k option. :eek: That'll blow most converted knee mills away. Optional 4th/5th axis too. :smokin:
 
TRAVELSS.A.EMETRIC
X Axis16.0 in406 mm
Y Axis12.0 in305 mm
Z Axis10.0 in254 mm
Spindle Nose to Table (~ max)14.0 in356 mm
Spindle Nose to Table (~ min)4.0 in102 mm


Cool little machines. Basically about the travels of a knee mill with a little extra Z...and a full enclosure.

Current models come with a 10k spindle and 15k option. :eek: That'll blow most converted knee mills away. Optional 4th/5th axis too. :smokin:
:grinpimp:
I have been looking for an excuse to buy one, I will be paying attention to your upcoming adventure
 
Climbing around on top of the machine, I noticed that the spindle fan was unplugged. Which, from my reading could of caused the fault. We tested the fan, and it works fine plugged it in no dice. Oh well. I think it’s at the point I just send Vector Drive off for rebuild.

It is flagging overvoltage in the advanced diagnostics. I haven’t been able to come up with anything on Google as to what this means.
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Did you check you incoming voltage and hook it up the the correct tap on the transformer?
 
Did you check you incoming voltage and hook it up the the correct tap on the transformer?

All voltages measured were good.

The haas troubleshooting guide for alarm 123 seem to imply we should get another alarm with that. We followed that guide anyway found no faults. In all of my online research it seems these vector drives are a common issue.

 
I called a repair vendor that I had seen reccomended on a cnc board. He said if my voltages were all good, then the typical damage was the voltage sensing and it would flag an over voltage. I then mentioned the over voltage bit displayed which seemed to confirm that. He said heating the boards up with a heat gun may get the machine running but would error again as soon as it cooled down. Only having a torch on hand, I decided I better not try it. :laughing:

His price was less than the “rebuild” kits I saw online and he seems to be quite thorough in his rebuild process. he also offered a 6 month warranty. I mailed the drive out yesterday, really looking forward to giving this a try.
 
I received the vector drive back from rebuild and installed it. Pressed the Reset buttonon the alarm, it made a thunk and the screen died. Talk about a let down. I found the 115v breaker in the back tripped. I noted there was a new alarm flashed on the screen for a split second before it died, so I reset the breaker and tried it again recording the screen in slow mo. It displayed alarm 175 for a short. Reading online it could have been about anything so I starting unplugging things from the board. I noticed the Z axis brake connector looked funny, the school had spliced in here to release the axis brake. I determined that plug was in backwards. Flipped it around and success! Now time to learn how to use this machine.
 
Good deal you got there. Pretty good machines. We have a mini as well as a couple vf 1's. They are pretty nice machines, not the most accurate you will find, but still decent. In total, we run 6 haas machines and they are fairly reliable and easy to operate. Our oldest machine is a 2000 vf5 50 taper and could be the first one ever converted to a cbn grinder. :smokin:
 
The tool changer on the machine was visibly bent. No obvious reason why. I disassembled it this afternoon and straightened it out in the press. It’s quite a bit more flimsy, then what it appears at a glance. Some cracks developed in it in the process. I’m guessing this is some sort of cast aluminum part. We’ll have to see how it goes. Anyways, it appears to function fine right now.

I have a starter pack of tooling in my shopping cart. Really makes you cringe but I kind of just want to do this right to begin with.

I’d love a specific coolant recommendation. There’s too many choices when I try to shop online.


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Check the limit switches on the tool changer. If they get sticky and stay on, the head will come down and smack the carousel.
 
It came from a school, right? It's been crashed. :laughing:



Check the limit switches on the tool changer. If they get sticky and stay on, the head will come down and smack the carousel.

The first time I powered up my Fadal I managed crash the tool changer in to the spindle like 3 times in a row. Somehow I had a tool in a pocket in the carousel that it didn't think was there so it wasn't lifting the spindle up, instead, just driving straight in to drop in the tool that it though was in the spindle itself. Got stuck in a fucking loop and did it again when I reset it. :lmao:
 
I can see that happening. The carousels really really pretty flimsy. I’m guessing that’s probably design to give away in that situation.

Given that the machine was stuck when I bought it, I had assumed they bent it trying to get the tools out of it.
 
Apparently that's a common enough problem that there's an aftermarket "segment" replacement for it. If you crash, you just replace a petal or two instead of the whole carousel. :smokin:

Not as pricey as I would have expected either....probably cheaper than a replacement straight from HAAS.

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In 97, we had a brand new machine rip the tool changer off due to this. Haas sent 2 guys down from the factory and replaced everything. They also loaded new software. Supposedly there was a fix for this in the new software, but I have seen them jam since. But none have destroyed anything like that agian.
 
Finally made some chips with the machine.

I got my butt kicked at auctions. I won several vises, but no tooling. Individual stuff seemed very expensive and what was in lots seemed expensive and have a lot of stuff I saw no real need for right now.

I decided to order a “starter kit” from Haas. not the one that they advertise but I used that list to come up with my own starter pack.

I decided my first part should be some soft jaws. Simple enough part so I whipped that up in fusion. Turns out you need the paid version of fusion to generate cam for tooling changing. Oh well, I needed the paid version for the plasma table anyways.

I got my butt kicked trying to set the Z offset from the machine bed. I set all of my tools from the bed with a 1” spacer. I put the 1” value in the tool wear as described in a Haas video on the subject. I used the haimer to measure the distance (5.5060” as pictured below) from the machine bed to my part top And set that as the Z part offset As described in the same videos. When I would load a tool again, the distance from the tool and the part was off 2.25” or so. I scratched my head over that one for a while but still have not found the answer. Several instance of the question online but no answer identified. I tried making a tool offset for the probe without a change in success.

I gave up on that method and set my tools off of the part with the Z of the stock on zero. That worked out fine, but I immediately saw the drawbacks to that method.

It appeared ready to run so I put some coolant in and hit go. Should have tested the coolant system first, turned out it was filthy and the pump stuck. If I ever do this again, the coolant tank gets pressure washed.

I used 5 tools on this part with nothing broken yet 🤞🏻 Had a few hiccups on the way due to the feed rates fusion assigned but those were resolved.
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What drawback did you see from setting Z zero at the top of the part? That is the way I do it, but maybe I'm doing it wrong.
 
Well, I could be wrong here. I don’t think setting it off the top is a wrong way to do it. But for my project as an example, I have two sides to these jaws I’m making, using the same tools. Given that I’m using one vise right now I think I have to re-offset each tool when I switch sides of the part. If I made offsets off the bed like I was trying to do, I would only need to create a new offset for the part each time and the tools would not need offset.

Bothers me about it is that something that is demonstrated on YouTube plenty but I missing something.
 
What drawback did you see from setting Z zero at the top of the part? That is the way I do it, but maybe I'm doing it wrong.
Then you need to remeasure if you run a different part. Or you need to replace a tool and don't have a part with Z zero in the vice.

Always measure off a standard then set your fixture hieght. That way you do not need to remeasure tools. Once they are in the carousel, they are good for everything.

All our mills have standard tools in them in the same pockets. Really cuts down on setup time when you only need to load a couple tools.
 
Touch your last tool to the block. Go in positions/USER and hit origin while in Z to set it to zero. Now go touch off the top of your part. Put that number in the fixture offset.
 
Well, I could be wrong here. I don’t think setting it off the top is a wrong way to do it. But for my project as an example, I have two sides to these jaws I’m making, using the same tools. Given that I’m using one vise right now I think I have to re-offset each tool when I switch sides of the part. If I made offsets off the bed like I was trying to do, I would only need to create a new offset for the part each time and the tools would not need offset.

Bothers me about it is that something that is demonstrated on YouTube plenty but I missing something.

On my Fadal, I use "mass modify" to adjust all my tools to the new offset. I do need to note down what the new offset is, then enter the number in a calculator with a known number to figure out the amount the difference to move everything.

Another way I do it when machining multiple parts in vises for different ops, just pic a point that won't change like the top of the vise or a 123 block on the table, and set all tools to that height, then just do the Z offsets for the different parts in my cad/cam.

I am sure there is better ways to do it... maybe I will try some one day.
 
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