DMG
Red Skull Member
- Joined
- May 20, 2020
- Member Number
- 495
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- 2,235
That could be a pleasant all around driver/wheeler with close to 300 hp, low CoG and 33x10.50s
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Light vs. Heavy weight wheeling rigs
- Thread starter IowaOffRoad
- Start date
DMG
Red Skull Member
- Joined
- May 20, 2020
- Member Number
- 495
- Messages
- 2,235
Heavy: You break and no one has a rig that can pull you out of the woods.
Light: Sounds fun if the rest of the drivetrain is up to it.
Treefrog
Book Wheeler
Why not a 241 from a Rubicon? In the hunt for light, why not dana 44s from a JK? Not a cheap, but lighter and more clearance
Heavy vs lightweight....I think if all things are equal lighter does better but it’s never equal.
I have seen bigger, heavier rigs, out do lighter rigs because of better drivers, better suspension geometry, better weight placement (which I think is just as important on where you put it compared to what the overall weight is)
I think weight also depends on what your doing. Sometimes weight helps, sometimes it hurts.
I also believe people throw numbers out there on rig weight but people who have never actually weighed them always underestimate how fast the weight adds up.
My rig is heavy, I have added bigger tires and some other things so I need to reweigh it but I was around 6500 lbs. I have heavy factory heated seats, lots of sound dampening crap. It all adds up....and 1 ton axles are not light but they have strength.
If you want light and strength, get out your checkbook. Brake kits to save 100 lbs can cost 1000 bucks and that’s for a still, very heavy D60 if you want spidertrax axles your in the 10,000+ range....so you normally pick strong and heavy, or lighter and weaker....
I have seen bigger, heavier rigs, out do lighter rigs because of better drivers, better suspension geometry, better weight placement (which I think is just as important on where you put it compared to what the overall weight is)
I think weight also depends on what your doing. Sometimes weight helps, sometimes it hurts.
I also believe people throw numbers out there on rig weight but people who have never actually weighed them always underestimate how fast the weight adds up.
My rig is heavy, I have added bigger tires and some other things so I need to reweigh it but I was around 6500 lbs. I have heavy factory heated seats, lots of sound dampening crap. It all adds up....and 1 ton axles are not light but they have strength.
If you want light and strength, get out your checkbook. Brake kits to save 100 lbs can cost 1000 bucks and that’s for a still, very heavy D60 if you want spidertrax axles your in the 10,000+ range....so you normally pick strong and heavy, or lighter and weaker....
That's what I am running, tire and wheel are 56#.35x10 utv tires if you're light enough
YotaAtieToo
Thick skull
241 is a good case, but with a 2.7:1 crawl box, 4:1 is probably unnecessary.
I already have a Sami on all zuk stuff and 32s for an ultra light. I'll take the wieght penalty on a trail rig that gets driven and has to carry the whole family, for the D60s, the low r&p also helps take stress off driveshafts and tcase/s.
It's hard to make a rig super light rig, but then throw a family of 5 and all their gear in.
Also, like the Toyota cases, I have the D60s. If I ended up with a driver drop tcase, I'd also think about putting my outters on a fab9 housing. Not just a bit of wieght savings, but makes front suspension 100x's easier.
TRINDU
PBB Orphan
You're on a different wavelength of what constitutes a wheeler. No wrong or right but different objectives.
Exactly. None of all this armor shit jeep fags like. Boat side it for some sliders. Simple shorty bumpers and a RC9 or cut down m8000. I'd have a blast with something like that, and it would keep up with all these 'built' JK/JL on 37s.
A 4:1 t case instead of AA box might be enough with an auto. An atlas is always nice. But not warranted and money best spent somewhere else.
44 JK axles would also work, anything but the junk 30/35 it came with. 5.13+ and let that turbo 4 sing.
Now off to search for 2.4 wranglers.
TRINDU
PBB Orphan
Details?
YotaAtieToo
Thick skull
I'll always pick doubler, I use stock low range way to much.
A pair of JK D44s that someone else already poured money into slapped under a TJ would be a great wheeler on 35s or slightly bigger. Wilson wheeled a basically stock LJ with a slight lift and 37s for a few years with really good luck. Iirc the weak point was the stock link mounts.
For what it's worth, I'd rather truss/sleeve some Jk axles vs old school D44s. No matter what you do to them, you're still stuck with tiny U joints or rcv's smaller than a Toyota birf. At least the Jk stuff can run 1350 or similar sized rvc's.
Treefrog
Book Wheeler
Don't even need to build them. If they can hold up under 5000 lb JKUs on 37s they will last under something with 150 HP and 3500 lb.
I just got done putting a pair under my LJ. 35s. Should hold up fine. Just a truss up front. Stock control arms too.
BFG KM3? 35x10.5x15 on a 15x7 Ford Alcoa forged wheel.
Since this rig is going to be light, I put the rims in the mill and took off a couple more pounds.
YotaAtieToo
Thick skull
Uh, no. Maybe in Florida
Who said they're holding up to JK's on 37s stock?
Chromo axles, lower gears and some HD ball joints is where I would start.
YotaAtieToo
Thick skull
Nice! I've always tho those would be the ultimate Sami wheel. I almost had a set in trade for some mt2 15x10s I was selling. But the guy couldn't figure out tires.BFG KM3? 35x10.5x15 on a 15x7 Ford Alcoa forged wheel.
Since this rig is going to be light, I put the rims in the mill and took off a couple more pounds.
Wilson
Newb
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2020
- Member Number
- 3068
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- 678
What year?BFG KM3? 35x10.5x15 on a 15x7 Ford Alcoa forged wheel.
Since this rig is going to be light, I put the rims in the mill and took off a couple more pounds.
YotaAtieToo
Thick skull
TRINDU
PBB Orphan
Those 90s ford alcoas are great (don't know what junk is in the pic you posted). I've seen plenty ate up though, like the 00s GM wheels.
Toreadorranger
Atomic Test Lab Rat
Doesn't look like they sell the 10.5s any more, just the 11" UTV tires.BFG KM3? 35x10.5x15 on a 15x7 Ford Alcoa forged wheel.
Since this rig is going to be light, I put the rims in the mill and took off a couple more pounds.
Treefrog
Book Wheeler
Where did I say that the ones holding up on JKs were stock? If you have half the HP and a lot less weight than a JK, stock would be fine, gearing aside.Uh, no. Maybe in Florida
Who said they're holding up to JK's on 37s stock?
Chromo axles, lower gears and some HD ball joints is where I would start.
Wheeled with 2 guys that ran 37s on rubi axles just fine. Even outside of flat and rock-less Florida
. One was upgraded as you said, both were trussed and gusseted too. Another 2 with Rubicon Gladiators on 37s and completely stock axles. They hold up fine here despite our best attempts, and one has done Moab.Yes, the 11" wide UTV tires. They are more like 9.5" wide though.
holdmypocket
nil
How much does a trussed and gusseted JK Dana 44 weigh compared to a 05+ Dana 60? And while we're at it, cost?
TRINDU
PBB Orphan
YotaAtieToo
Thick skull
Where did I say that the ones holding up on JKs were stock? If you have half the HP and a lot less weight than a JK, stock would be fine, gearing aside.
Wheeled with 2 guys that ran 37s on rubi axles just fine. Even outside of flat and rock-less Florida
In you own post?
Thats cool that some people make them work stock. I usually wheel with guys breaking chomo stuff, so stock axle shafts aren't even a consideration.
Also, age and how many times it has been bound and twisted are a big factor. Sure, 1 wheeling trip may be fine, but after 5-8 hard trips, stuff will start breaking.
YotaAtieToo
Thick skull
How much for a set of non bling take offs? Throw shipping labels directly on them?Just for that I will machine every one I can find.
Pallets of them.....
I'd like to try the system 3 xcr350s on my Sami in a 35x10. A few buddies put them on their rzrs and love them. I figured if I did that, I could enter my Sami in the UA
How much for a set of non bling take offs? Throw shipping labels directly on them?
I'd like to try the system 3 xcr350s on my Sami in a 35x10. A few buddies put them on their rzrs and love them. I figured if I did that, I could enter my Sami in the UA
I don't have any non-blingy at the moment but shoot me a pm so I remember.
Could I interest you in a set of RT320's
Treefrog
Book Wheeler
Probably should have worded it much betterIn you own post?
Thats cool that some people make them work stock. I usually wheel with guys breaking chomo stuff, so stock axle shafts aren't even a consideration.
Also, age and how many times it has been bound and twisted are a big factor. Sure, 1 wheeling trip may be fine, but after 5-8 hard trips, stuff will start breaking.
.The only guy we had that broke constantly was a FJ80 on 40s and a 6.0 LS of some sort. All that he had done to the axles was lockers, gearing, and chromoly. Never an issue from any of the lighter guys.
We were usually pretty hesitant to really hammer on them, had to get to class on Monday.
Even when we went hard on stuff, we very rarely have anything bound up, too much sand and dirt on everything to give us enough grip. Most of our destruction comes from an axle hopping.
YotaAtieToo
Thick skull
I don't have any non-blingy at the moment but shoot me a pm so I remember.
Could I interest you in a set of RT320's
Nah, I'd like to try the 350s or a set of stickies.
Probably should have worded it much better
The only guy we had that broke constantly was a FJ80 on 40s and a 6.0 LS of some sort. All that he had done to the axles was lockers, gearing, and chromoly. Never an issue from any of the lighter guys.
We were usually pretty hesitant to really hammer on them, had to get to class on Monday.
Even when we went hard on stuff, we very rarely have anything bound up, too much sand and dirt on everything to give us enough grip. Most of our destruction comes from an axle hopping.
Just depends on driver and terrain. West coast wheeling can be pretty brutal. Most also don't want to be that guy who makes a bunch of people wait while he tip toes through an obstical to avoid scratching something.
Also, like Wilson mentioned, much under 4500 lbs for a 4.0 powered LJ will be about impossible.
Also, how often is everyone wheeling their rig with nothing in it an no passengers?
Toreadorranger
Atomic Test Lab Rat
What are you running them on?
OBS Ford Alcoa's. Look back a few posts for pics.
I tried real hard to keep the unsprung weight down on this build. Between brakes, hubs and rims, I dropped about 30# off a corner. Going to aluminum diffs in the beams saved about 15# an end. Could have saved more with spools, but being steerable won out.