Intra-Afghanistan talks in Qatar set for Sept 12th

[realsquash]

How do you tell a taliban guy from a non taliban guy? Are they extra brown?

Don't care, just shoot. Or leave.

 

[bigun]

The only way to defeat them is to go door to door and shoot them. Short of that we need to get out of there.

Have you not studied how gorilla warfare works. Kill one another takes his place, they blend in with the population because they are the population. The friendly guy you know during the day maybe the same guy setting a trap to kill you at night.

Don't care, just shoot. Or leave.

Now that is an even stupider comment, guess what bongo it is their country we were the invaders

 

[realsquash]

Have you not studied how gorilla warfare works. Kill one another takes his place, they blend in with the population because they are the population. The friendly guy you know during the day maybe the same guy setting a trap to kill you at night.



Now that is an even stupider comment, guess what bongo it is their country we were the invaders

Not if you just kill them all. Their culture is what has created this problem. They need to be conquered, not slapped around until we leave. Sorry to be harsh, but it's an all-or-none thing and you know it. Eventually we will have the United States of Arabia and we can all take vacations there.

 

[bigun]

Not if you just kill them all. Their culture is what has created this problem. They need to be conquered, not slapped around until we leave. Sorry to be harsh, but it's an all-or-none thing and you know it. Eventually we will have the United States of Arabia and we can all take vacations there.

Gengus Khan is the only one who is said to have concoure Afghanistan and he did it by leaving a mountain of skulls behind. I don't know about you but I wopuldn't want my country responsible for something like that

 

[realsquash]

Uh, Pakistan and the US created this problem. If you follow the bread crumbs the Pakistani intelligence services are directly responsible for the radicalization and rise of the taliban, using money and equipment we sent them to fight the Soviets with. Seriously, Pakistan was tasked with taking refugees, training them, and sending them back over the border to kill some commies. They chose to select boys, added a healthy dose of radicalization which the taliban took to an extreme because they were children undergoing indoctrination, and sent their own personal Pashtun army across the mountains again. Followed quickly by losing any and all control over them, and realizing that they fucked up royally when they lost control of sections of their own border regions to the taliban.

I understand all the nuance and complicated history. But it means fuck all right now. We can't game our way out of extreme Islam. Leave them alone or kill them all, take their land, and don't give it back. Colonize.

Gengus Khan is the only one who is said to have concoure Afghanistan and he did it by leaving a mountain of skulls behind. I don't know about you but I wopuldn't want my country responsible for something like that

Exactly correct. At some point we have to acknowledge that our past meddling was not fruitful and either completely remove ourselves from the area/situation, or go the other direction and just wipe them out. If they keep to themselves I guess we can leave them alone, but if they pull another 9/11 it's time to kill them all. China would love to get in on that, too.

 

[Provience]

No military can defeat an insurgency made up of people who will put up with a 10:1 death ratio and have the support of the locals.

To deafest something like that you need to literally colonize the place to the point where the people you're fighting and the people who support them are a subjugated minority and your people run the show. The first world nations simply don't do that stuff anymore because they can't justify it at home.

you can't fight half a war, we've been proving that for nearly 100 years

 

[Provience]

will the AFG Government be able to re-take the cities? that is the biggest question. the immediate "wins" were always going to the taliban. what kind of pushback can they get and what kind of slog can they muster

 

[49willys_mogon]

Uh, Pakistan and the US created this problem. If you follow the bread crumbs the Pakistani intelligence services are directly responsible for the radicalization and rise of the taliban, using money and equipment we sent them to fight the Soviets with. Seriously, Pakistan was tasked with taking refugees, training them, and sending them back over the border to kill some commies. They chose to select boys, added a healthy dose of radicalization which the taliban took to an extreme because they were children undergoing indoctrination, and sent their own personal Pashtun army across the mountains again. Followed quickly by losing any and all control over them, and realizing that they fucked up royally when they lost control of sections of their own border regions to the taliban.

My neighbor was in the Navy and a few of his buddies were Seals. They described all the cross training we gave Afghan forces. When engaging Taliban at night it was difficult to differentiate who the enemy was as it was almost a mirror image of our guys.

 

[bigun]

 

[Aisin]

Well I think it’s safe to say that Biden won’t be getting a Nobel peace prize for any of this.

He will. Look at his homie Obongo.

 

[mobil1syn]

good thing we gave them a pile of cash for gender equality because of the rona

 

[ExWrench]

good thing we gave them a pile of cash for gender equality because of the rona

#Joetato_priorities

 

[gt1guy]

The Afghan people stopped evolving about 5000 years ago. They are unteachable. They will never change. It's almost a mistake to think of them as human.

They've had freedom handed to them and yet, they choose to be brutally ruled. Western values need not apply.

We need to get the rest of our folks out of that shithole. Watch what goes on there from space and when they get stupid, carpet bomb the place with MOAB's.

 

[Thefishguy77]

After lengthy siege, Lashkar Gah is taken by the Taliban | FDD's Long War Journal

Frankly I’m impressed with the taliban. They kept up an effective insurgency against the most technologically advanced military in the world, and have quickly and effectively taken control of the country yet again. Showing yet again that although the us military might be extremely effective against a near peer force, we don’t posses the ability to defeat a bunch of properly motivate farmers.

We aren’t allowed to do what is needed to kick the farmers asses. ROE and all that fun stuff.

 

[GonPostal]

In an area that has not really seen much beside religious feudal fighting for hundreds of years, this outcome is really no surprise. The Soviet Union couldn't tame the area in the 80's and got their asses kicked. The lure of Big Mac's, IPhone's and Nikes from the US fell on deaf ears.....

 

[Thefishguy77]

How’d that work in ‘nam when we were burning down villages to try to win the “hearts and minds” of the Vietnamese?

Because I’m pretty sure that just pissed them off worse and convinced more former farmers to support our opposition. Much as it did when the British were trying to fight an insurgency here.

The only answer for that god forsaken shit hole known as the Middle East is to wreck all the shit of whoever is in power and let them fight each other along tribal lines like they have been doing for centuries. And continue doing that anytime one group gains too much power. If they are busy fighting each other they can’t fight us. The one thing you don’t want to do is give them a reason to unite against a common enemy.

The taliban are hard men. They’ve spent their entire lives sleeping on the cold, hard ground, eating in a week what an average American eats in a day, working with their hands, traveling over harsh terrain, and fighting. The horrible conditions American servicemen had to endure while serving there is just every day life to these people. You’re never going to win a war against that type of man, the best you can do is distract them from us.

I firmly believe the average Afghan doesn’t give a fuck who’s in charge of the country. They’d just like the explosions and gunfire to stop so they can go back to subsistence living without worrying about helicopters appearing on the horizon, stepping on land mines while tending their goats, or being summarily executed because they might have possibly talked to an American.

Operation rolling thunder ring a bell. Bomb the shit out of them. Wait and ask them if they give up yet (time to regroup). Then bomb the shit out of the and repeat. Hell the only reason we really had anything more than advisors over there is some elected politicians got pin ed down in a fire fight between the north and the south. When pale face round eyes showed up to bail them out. Suddenly we need to send marines over there now!
Our boy Donny Rumsfeld was involved in every war we had from VN to AFG. Are you surprised that the results are mostly the same? Same war mongers running it usually equal same results...

 

[Ransil]

we trained them for 20 years they either want to fight or not, screw em they will figure it out, if they need help call the UN

 

[arse_sidewards]

In an area that has not really seen much beside religious feudal fighting for hundreds of years, this outcome is really no surprise. The Soviet Union couldn't tame the area in the 80's and got their asses kicked. The lure of Big Mac's, IPhone's and Nikes from the US fell on deaf ears.....

The soviet union fucked up a perfectly good developing country by backing a commie coup, and then the fucked it up more by trying to prop it up when it went south in the late 70s.

Afghanistan in the 40s through early 70s was basically just a poorer Iran (what Iran was at that time).

Both those places could be like Jordan is today if it weren't for religious extremists and commies.

 

[gt1guy]

The soviet union fucked up a perfectly good developing country by backing a commie coup, and then the fucked it up more by trying to prop it up when it went south in the late 70s.

Afghanistan in the 40s through early 70s was basically just a poorer Iran (what Iran was at that time).

Both those places could be like Jordan is today if it weren't for religious extremists and commies.

Afghanistan was never a developing country. They have no desire to "develop". They are 100% happy living the way they do. The problems arise when we try to attach western values on them, they don't share those values. Religion runs every aspect of their lives and that's how they want it.

Our problem is thinking they would want to be like us if they just had the chance. That's on us, the Afghans don't feel the same.

 

[Provience]

Afghanistan was never a developing country. They have no desire to "develop". They are 100% happy living the way they do. The problems arise when we try to attach western values on them, they don't share those values. Religion runs every aspect of their lives and that's how they want it.

Our problem is thinking they would want to be like us if they just had the chance. That's on us, the Afghans don't feel the same.

generally agree, their "developing" was their communist regime sure, it gave rise to a more united taliban against the communists who were encouraging less religious dogma, but they weren't free or liberal or any sort of thing before then.

 

[bigun]

Afghanistan was never a developing country. They have no desire to "develop". They are 100% happy living the way they do. The problems arise when we try to attach western values on them, they don't share those values. Religion runs every aspect of their lives and that's how they want it.

Our problem is thinking they would want to be like us if they just had the chance. That's on us, the Afghans don't feel the same.

Now if our politicians and state department weenies could just understand that we are the only country that believes the way we do and quit trying to make others agree with us.

In the movie Good Morning Viet Nam Robin Williams character is shocked to find out a young boy he thought was a friend was actually a member of the Viet Cong

 

[bigun]

Taliban Enter Afghan Capital as US Diplomats Evacuate by Chopper

Taliban insurgents entered Afghanistan's capital Kabul on Sunday, an interior ministry official said, as the United States evacuated diplomats from its embassy by helicopter. The senior official told Reuters the Taliban were coming in "from all sides" but gave no further...

www.newsmax.com

Taliban insurgents entered Afghanistan's capital Kabul on Sunday, an interior ministry official said, as the United States evacuated diplomats from its embassy by helicopter.
The senior official told Reuters the Taliban were coming in "from all sides" but gave no further details.

There were no reports of fighting. Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid said in a statement that the group was in talks with the government for a peaceful surrender of Kabul.

The entry into the capital caps a lightning advance by the Islamist militants, who were ousted 20 years ago by the United States after the Sept. 11 attacks. The collapse of the Afghan government defense has stunned diplomats - just last week, a U.S. intelligence estimate said Kabul could hold out for at least three months.


"Taliban fighters are to be on standby on all entrances of Kabul until a peaceful and satisfactory transfer of power is agreed," the statement said.

A tweet from the Afghan Presidential palace account said firing had been heard at a number of points around Kabul but that security forces, in coordination with international partners, had control of the city.

There was no immediate word on the situation from President Ashraf Ghani. A palace official said he was in emergency talks with U.S. peace envoy Zalmay Khalilzad and top NATO officials.

Many of Kabul's streets were choked by cars and people either trying to rush home or reach the airport, residents said.

"Some people have left their keys in the car and have started walking to the airport," one resident told Reuters by phone. Another said: "People are all going home in fear of fighting."

U.S. officials said diplomats were being ferried by helicopter to the airport from its embassy in the fortified Wazir Akbar Khan district. More American troops were being sent to help in the evacuations after the Taliban's lightning advances brought the Islamist group to Kabul in a matter of days.

"Core" U.S. team members were working from the Kabul airport, a U.S. official said, while a NATO official said several EU staff had moved to a safer, undisclosed location in the capital.


Earlier on Sunday, the insurgents captured the eastern city of Jalalabad without a fight, giving them control of one of the main highways into landlocked Afghanistan. They also took over the nearby Torkham border post with Pakistan, leaving Kabul airport the only way out of Afghanistan that is still in government hands.

The capture of Jalalabad followed the Taliban's seizure of the northern city of Mazar-i-Sharif late on Saturday, also with little fighting.

"There are no clashes taking place right now in Jalalabad because the governor has surrendered to the Taliban," a Jalalabad-based Afghan official told Reuters. "Allowing passage to the Taliban was the only way to save civilian lives."

A video clip distributed by the Taliban showed people cheering and shout Allahu Akbar - God is greatest - as a convoy of pickup trucks entered the city with fighters brandishing machine guns and the white Taliban flag.

After U.S.-led forces withdrew the bulk of the their remaining troops in the last month, the Taliban campaign accelerated as the Afghan military's defenses appeared to collapse.

President Joe Biden on Saturday authorized the deployment of 5,000 U.S. troops to help evacuate citizens and ensure an "orderly and safe" drawdown of military personnel. A U.S. defense official said that included 1,000 newly approved troops from the 82nd Airborne Division.

Taliban fighters entered Mazar-i-Sharif virtually unopposed as security forces escaped up the highway to Uzbekistan, about 80 km (50 miles) to the north, provincial officials said. Unverified video on social media showed Afghan army vehicles and men in uniforms crowding the iron bridge between the Afghan town of Hairatan and Uzbekistan.

Two influential militia leaders supporting the government - Atta Mohammad Noor and Abdul Rashid Dostum - also fled Afghan militia leaders Atta Noor, Dostum escape 'conspiracy'. Noor said on social media that the Taliban had been handed control of Balkh province, where Mazar-i-Sharif is located, due to a "conspiracy."

POPULARLY ACCEPTED

In a statement late on Saturday, the Taliban said its rapid gains showed it was popularly accepted by the Afghan people and reassured both Afghans and foreigners that they would be safe.

The Islamic Emirate, as the Taliban calls itself, "will, as always, protect their life, property and honor, and create a peaceful and secure environment for its beloved nation," it said, adding that diplomats and aid workers would also face no problems.

Afghans have fled the provinces to enter Kabul in recent days, fearing a return to hardline Islamist rule.

Early on Sunday, refugees from Taliban-controlled provinces were seen unloading belongings from taxis and families stood outside embassy gates, while the city's downtown was packed with people stocking up on supplies.

Hundreds of people slept huddled in tents or in the open in the city, by roadsides or in car parks, a resident said on Saturday night. "You can see the fear in their faces," he said.

Biden said his administration had told Taliban officials in talks in Qatar that any action that put U.S. personnel at risk "will be met with a swift and strong U.S. military response."

He has faced rising domestic criticism as the Taliban have taken city after city far more quickly than predicted. The president has stuck to a plan, initiated by his Republican predecessor, Donald Trump, to end the U.S. military mission in Afghanistan by Aug. 31.

Biden said it is up to the Afghan military to hold its own territory. "An endless American presence in the middle of another country's civil conflict was not acceptable to me," Biden said on Saturday.

Qatar, which has been hosting so-far inconclusive peace talks between the Afghan government and the Taliban, said it had urged the insurgents to cease fire. Ghani has given no sign of responding to a Taliban demand that he resign as a condition for any ceasefire

 

[Provience]

well, to be 100% honest, i'm surprised that kabul surrendered with what sounds like basically no fight. "shots heard around the city" will CERTAINLY be 'retribution killings'.

that's pretty fucking sad. yeah yeah "everybody knew they wouldn't fight" but still...just to roll over completely? damn. talking to a co-worker the other day "basically, the government has been corrupt for 20 years, they need to spend that money wisely right now and fight or continue to be corrupt and die crying from it". sounds like they chose die crying

the next 6 months are going to be interesting

 

[Provience]

also, i'm pretty dang glad that biden is taking what seems to be the appropriate stance here after he bungled the withdrawl timeline earlier in the year.

 

[Kyle]

also, i'm pretty dang glad that biden is taking what seems to be the appropriate stance here after he bungled the withdrawl timeline earlier in the year.

Going back in? What does that accomplish? They still don’t want us there.

put those 3000 troops at our border. That’s what we need.

 

[Provience]

Going back in? What does that accomplish? They still don’t want us there.

put those 3000 troops at our border. That’s what we need.

huh? I haven't heard anything about biden going back in. We ramped up and pulled everybody back to the international airport according to al jazeera and that is currently the only thing the US military controls, after moving everybody from the embassy back. When we Left AFG last month, leaving was moving to the embassy and airport, for this exact thing and to facillitate a mass international evacuation

I'd imagine there are plenty of people stood up and if something does goes sideways at the airport, there will be thousands more people in there within a couple hours, but in general biden is following along with the leave and let be policy.

what he messed with earlier was violating the intra-afghan doha treaty by delaying for a couple months for absolutely zero reason.

 

[bigun]

 

[Provience]

the first 30 seconds of that video are painful as the news anchors try to build sympathy for the retards clinging to wings and shutting down the airport. "facing certain death, but surely staying would be so much worse" - no, it's pretty easy to ensure you get a quick death staying. the taliban aren't communists, they are more willing to give you a public execution than a multi-year torture or prison term. regardless, shoot first and they will continue to shoot back.

 

[Weasel]

Afghanistan was never a developing country. They have no desire to "develop". They are 100% happy living the way they do. The problems arise when we try to attach western values on them, they don't share those values. Religion runs every aspect of their lives and that's how they want it.

Our problem is thinking they would want to be like us if they just had the chance. That's on us, the Afghans don't feel the same.

disagree, but not fully. Pretty sure there are plenty of folks that want a somewhat western life, just get shut out by the extreme. Like most places that have.

Maybe we should just give the Taliban a seat with the understanding that we are going to be doing drone training for the forseeable future. Step out of line and hellfire. War crimes, hellfire. Shooting civilians, hellfire.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Maybe we should just give the Taliban a seat with the understanding that we are going to be doing drone training for the forseeable future. Step out of line and hellfire. War crimes, hellfire. Shooting civilians, hellfire.

Why? It's not our country. It's not our concern unless they're trying to attack us again.