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Internet Argument - Brandishing a Weapon

Stuck said:
Is the beach open to the public? If its not your personal property, and anyone has the right to be there, control your dog.
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So everyone in here has a perfectly trained dog that listens to their every command instantly? :rolleyes:​​​​​​
 
I had a big-ass Rottweiler that scared the shit out of people that didn't know him. He never bit anyone, never even tried, but he did charge a UPS driver that was across the street making a delivery. I was in the garage and he was out there with me just sleeping on the floor, my buddy pulled up and he woke and headed out to get some rubbies from Dana, but then changed his mind when the UPS guy showed up. I'm calling him back and usually he would obey, but this time it was "nope, there's someone new to pet me". The UPS guy saw him at the last minute and held up his clipboard at arms length, :laughing:, like that was going to stop this rabid Germanic wolf, and my dog just sat down in front of him and gave him the 1000 yard stare. I had to walk across the street and grab him by the collar and apologize to the driver that I'm pretty sure shit his pants. No more hanging out in the garage off leash after that.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
So everyone in here has a perfectly trained dog that listens to their every command instantly? :rolleyes:​​​​​​
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No. I have four dogs. Two will lick you to death even if you were beating them one of which is very well voice trained. One is a mutt who is very protective of my kids the other is a retired Mal also very well trained but is also a very protective retired Mal. None of them are ever in public without being on a leash. Control your dog and you wont have a problem.
 
Quick dog stories.

1. Me. Family has 30 acres of woods. I'm walking along in said woods alone. Out of nowhere 2 dogs come quartering toward me heading to my right. Medium pit and ankle biter. Pit changes path and heads straight for me. I draw steel. Dog stops 5 feet from me, looks at me for a second, turns and follows other dog wherever.

2. Buddy of mine spends a lot of time in the woods hunting and fishing. Said he's hunting state land one day and is set upon by a pack of wild dogs. Shoots a couple and the pack runs. Very humble type of guy.

3. Guy I used to work with. Says he's at a friend's garage bullshiting. Friends Neighbors pit attacks him and he shoots it dead. Months later, guy I used to work with swings by my place to drop off a tool. I answer door with my pit at my side and he sprints back to his truck before I can tell him not to worry. Guy used to brag about being a reserve cop.

I know, cool starry bra.
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Stuck said:
No. I have four dogs. Two will lick you to death one of which is very well voice trained. One is a mutt who is very protective of my kids the other is a retired Mal also very well trained but is also a very protective retired Mal. None of them are ever in public without being on a leash.
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So you take one of the lickers to the beach, he's going crazy, wants to run. You look around, don't see anyone, fuck it, let him off. He's running around, in hog heaven. A couple comes out of nowhere and he's like "yay, new friends" bolts towards them. Then dude pulls a gun because he was showing his teeth. :laughing:​​​

Now, if I had a protective/aggressive dog, I'd probably not ever put it in that position. I'm just trying to make the counter point. Dog owner may not have been a pos like the op led on. Heck it probably wasn't even a pit bull:flipoff2:
 
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YotaAtieToo said:
So everyone in here has a perfectly trained dog that listens to their every command instantly? :rolleyes:​​​​​​
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I came very close to committing to killing a guy's dog in front of him and his wife one time (no guns involved, but pure self-defense). This was on his property, but I was there (invited) in a service capacity, and it turns out the owner (bored uber-rich guy) was fucking with me. I was literally <4 seconds from engaging the charging 120+lb beast, and had figured out exactly what I was going to do (or try to do).

The dog was innocent, and well behaved (I found out afterward) - he stopped his charge immediately upon command. If I'd had to kill or even just fight that dog, I would've wanted to beat the owner senseless on general principle. If your dog isn't "perfectly trained", contain him/her as a threat - that's 100% on you.
 
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ExWrench said:
I came very close to committing to killing a guy's dog one time (no guns involved). This was on his property, but I was there (invited) in a service capacity, and it turns out the owner (bored uber-rich guy) was fucking with me. I was literally <4 seconds from engaging the charging 120+lb beast, and had figured out exactly what I was going to do (or try to do).

The dog was innocent, and well behaved (I found out afterward) - he stopped his charge immediately upon command. If I'd had to kill or even just fight that dog, I would've wanted to beat the owner senseless on general principle. If your dog isn't "perfectly trained", contain him/her as a threat - that's 100% on you.
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Yes, i get that. My point is that a large majority of dogs aren't a threat. Just because you're afraid of dogs, doesn't mean you can shoot them all. :flipoff2:

Like I originally said, I wasn't there, so I can't judge too hard, but there is always more than one angle.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Yes, i get that. My point is that a large majority of dogs aren't a threat. Just because you're afraid of dogs, doesn't mean you can shoot them all. :flipoff2:

Like I originally said, I wasn't there, so I can't judge too hard, but there is always more than one angle.
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A "large majority of dogs" is not all dogs, unknown dogs are unknown dogs, and I'm not afraid of any dogs that don't pose an imminent threat.
The dog I (unfortunately) fully envisioned killing posed an imminent threat - thankfully, that changed.

I get parts of your devil's-advocate points, but you are the responsible party in the dog-owner relationship. Be worthy of your dogs.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
So you take one of the lickers to the beach, he's going crazy, wants to run. You look around, don't see anyone, fuck it, let him off. He's running around, in hog heaven. A couple comes out of nowhere and he's like "yay, new friends" bolts towards them. Then dude pulls a gun because he was showing his teeth. :laughing:​​​

Now, if I had a protective/aggressive dog, I'd probably not ever put it in that position. I'm just trying to make the counter point. Dog owner may not have been a pos like the op led on. Heck it probably wasn't even a pit bull:flipoff2:
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How many times do I have to say it? If they are in public, they are on a fucking leash.
 
ExWrench said:
I came very close to committing to killing a guy's dog in front of him and his wife one time (no guns involved, but pure self-defense). This was on his property, but I was there (invited) in a service capacity, and it turns out the owner (bored uber-rich guy) was fucking with me. I was literally <4 seconds from engaging the charging 120+lb beast, and had figured out exactly what I was going to do (or try to do).

The dog was innocent, and well behaved (I found out afterward) - he stopped his charge immediately upon command. If I'd had to kill or even just fight that dog, I would've wanted to beat the owner senseless on general principle. If your dog isn't "perfectly trained", contain him/her as a threat - that's 100% on you.
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I used to hang out with a dude that had a striking dummy with it's throat ripped out, he'd taught his dogs that and was SUPER proud of it, and how well they listened. He'd do that same kind of shit, have his dog charge at people that had never been over and then call them off at the last second, the dogs knew it was a game but the people didn't. I always wondered what would happen if someone had booted that dog in the nose before he said stop, would they listen or react based on getting hit? Shitty situation to put the dog and another person in.
 
Not that my opinion matters, but when it comes to ever pulling a gun, the moment I pull a gun out, it is to fire it. I don’t pull it out to scare someone. But just because I pull it, I don’t start firing. But if I’m not perfectly content shooting in that moment, then the gun doesn’t need to come out. Good example, I have been walking in the woods and heard what I thought was a hog. My gun was out and I was prepared to shoot. But I didn’t start shooting because my gun was out. With all of that said, never had to pull a gun on anyone yet.
 
dave_dj1 said:
No they won't , just ask anyone who owns one, they are just misunderstood.......LOL
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They have a higher potential to cause harm if they bite but the vast majority of them do not bite.


Most "pitbull" attacks aren't even by the breed. I giggled when I hear idiots talk about their bad ass 90 lb pitbull. The american pitbull tops out about 60 lbs. :homer:
 
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DWT said:
They have a higher potential to cause harm if they bite but the vast majority of them do not bite.


Most "pitbull" attacks aren't even by the breed. I giggled when I hear idiots talk about their bad ass 90 lb pitbull. The american pitbull tops out about 60 lbs. :homer:
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What about Hulk?
 
Yep, so this is what I'm still being told this morning:

"The even more simple answer, if you pull a gun and don't use it, you weren't yet at the point where it is appropriate to pull the gun."

What's weird is 90% of the folks on this site would fit in rather well here. There's one mod and a handful of Libs that have joined forces to make one super Lib on the topic. No one wants to speak up because the mod loves handing out bans. :homer:

Iunno. I've moved on.
 
2big bronco said:
What about Hulk?
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He is a mix of a american bulldog and american pit bull.


It's odd how they breed sometimes. My male is the product of an american bulldog and a pitbull/black lab mix. He is just shy of 100 lbs, his father is a papered and rather pure american bulldog that is under 80 lbs. My dog is from my male and my wife's pitbull/pointer mix and she is right at 70 lbs but she has a brother that is over 110 lbs. Fawking males just keep getting bigger. :laughing:

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woods said:
Yep, so this is what I'm still being told this morning:

"The even more simple answer, if you pull a gun and don't use it, you weren't yet at the point where it is appropriate to pull the gun."

What's weird is 90% of the folks on this site would fit in rather well here. There's one mod and a handful of Libs that have joined forces to make one super Lib on the topic. No one wants to speak up because the mod loves handing out bans. :homer:

Iunno. I've moved on.
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Still takes 1.5 seconds to decide to pull and clear leather, on a good day with training. A lot can happen in that time frame. Put me down as being on the side of- there is no shame in pulling a gun and deciding the threat has passed over getting savaged by a dog before you could get it out. Once the dog is latched on you are much more likely to shoot yourself trying to hit them.
 
woods said:
So I've gone and done it. Started an argument with a mod on another site. Everyone is siding with them, because moderator. But who knows, maybe I am in the wrong.

Discussing pulling a weapon on an aggressive person or animal.

All started with the scenario I was in. Was on the beach with my then girlfriend, now wife, in the mountains. Beach was vacant minus one person and an unleashed pitbull. Pitbull came running to us, bearing teeth and snarling. Owner didn't do much. I drew my weapon and pointed it at the snarling dog that was standing a few feet in front of us. Owner came running, calling the dog, and leashed it. They left without saying anything. Holstered my weapon and went on with our day.

The argument is that any time you draw your weapon, you instantly fire. No matter what. "If you didn't need to fire, you didn't need to draw your weapon."

My argument is that once a weapon is brandished, the dynamics change. In my situation, the dog owner leashed the animal and that was that. I'm being told I should have fired the moment the firearm left my holster. Now, if the dog owner had not cared, the dog lunged at either of us, yes I would have put it down.

Now put in a situation where if an individual was acting like they were going to do harm to you. You draw your weapon, and they instantly back down and comply. Like a road rage situation. I feel as though if they comply, back down, there isn't a need to fire. But I'm being told that's not the case. The moment you draw a weapon, you fire no matter what. I don't agree with that, but perhaps I have the wrong idea.

Discuss.
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Well the people you are arguing with are quite stupid dumbasses. If it were a snarling asshole running at you instead of a dog who stopped in his tracks once you drew your weapon - if you shot him anyway you are now probably under arrest for murder. This is how it works. The goal is not to shoot someone, it's to stop the threat. No threat with deescalation then no shoot. Fuck people are stupid.


Edit - by the metric of the dumbasses on your other forum every cop should shoot every person they ever draw on?
 
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idahojeep said:
Edit - by the metric of the dumbasses on your other forum every cop should shoot every person they ever draw on?
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I specifically brought that up.

"You are not a LEO, they are allowed to draw their weapon as part of their use of force continuum. You are not..."
 
woods said:
The moment you draw a weapon, you fire no matter what.
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That is the dumbest idea ever. I've never even heard of that before. The whole point of shooting is to be effective and smooth, having a gun un-holstered and at the ready is 800 million times better for most people if there is a chance you might fire.

I've been in the dog situation without my gun and it just takes a split second for the dog to make a decision. I'm not going to add that split second on top of drawing and presenting from my holster.

Now I can agree with if you draw you had better be ready to fire, but that's way different then above.
 
Weasel said:
That is the dumbest idea ever. I've never even heard of that before. The whole point of shooting is to be effective and smooth, having a gun un-holstered and at the ready is 800 million times better for most people if there is a chance you might fire.

I've been in the dog situation without my gun and it just takes a split second for the dog to make a decision. I'm not going to add that split second on top of drawing and presenting from my holster.

Now I can agree with if you draw you had better be ready to fire, but that's way different then above.
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I do want to clarify the part that you quoted, wasn't something I said. Its what I'm being told. :)
 
At the ready is good. Whip it out and shoot like some movie gunfighter, not so good. I think you handled situation well.
 
i think they are fucking idiots, if you draw a firearm and the threat deescalates, it worked. it did its job on protecting you. hell Lott has a book out with studies that show how many things get shut down when a firearm is produced. now i think the morons are confusing "never pull a firearm if you are not willing to use it" bunch. if you were willing to use it, your all good.
 
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I see nothing wrong with what you did. I wish I was allowed to carry a side arm when walking around our neighbourhood. We get charged by aggressive dogs far too frequently around here.
 
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