Internet Argument - Brandishing a Weapon

[woods]

So I've gone and done it. Started an argument with a mod on another site. Everyone is siding with them, because moderator. But who knows, maybe I am in the wrong.

Discussing pulling a weapon on an aggressive person or animal.

All started with the scenario I was in. Was on the beach with my then girlfriend, now wife, in the mountains. Beach was vacant minus one person and an unleashed pitbull. Pitbull came running to us, bearing teeth and snarling. Owner didn't do much. I drew my weapon and pointed it at the snarling dog that was standing a few feet in front of us. Owner came running, calling the dog, and leashed it. They left without saying anything. Holstered my weapon and went on with our day.

The argument is that any time you draw your weapon, you instantly fire. No matter what. "If you didn't need to fire, you didn't need to draw your weapon."

My argument is that once a weapon is brandished, the dynamics change. In my situation, the dog owner leashed the animal and that was that. I'm being told I should have fired the moment the firearm left my holster. Now, if the dog owner had not cared, the dog lunged at either of us, yes I would have put it down.

Now put in a situation where if an individual was acting like they were going to do harm to you. You draw your weapon, and they instantly back down and comply. Like a road rage situation. I feel as though if they comply, back down, there isn't a need to fire. But I'm being told that's not the case. The moment you draw a weapon, you fire no matter what. I don't agree with that, but perhaps I have the wrong idea.

Discuss.

 

[michael.gonzalez]

So I take it you felt your life was in danger? Lol

 

[bbagwell]

If you draw your weapon and the person backs away you are still supposed to shoot them? You are right, you can pull a weapon and a situation can de-escalate. Pull your weapon and you have to fire is the dumbest thing I have heard today.

 

[Romogo]

It's all escalation of force. Drawing your weapon is an escalation of force. If that causes the situation to deescalate, why escalate again?

 

[woods]

So I take it you felt your life was in danger? Lol

A pitbull will seriously fuck you up.

 

[michael.gonzalez]

A pitbull will seriously fuck you up.

Well no shit sherlock.

 

[woods]

If you draw your weapon and the person backs away you are still supposed to shoot them? You are right, you can pull a weapon and a situation can de-escalate. Pull your weapon and you have to fire is the dumbest thing I have heard today.

You're the first person of, like, ten that has agreed with me. I was getting to the point that perhaps I had it wrong? I just can't see firing right away if the situation doesn't warrant it. Prepared to fire, yes. Fire no matter what? No.

 

[woods]

Well no shit sherlock.

I thought you were laughing at the fact that it was silly for me to think that my life was in danger with an aggressive pitbull.

 

[Thumping]

Well no shit sherlock.

Well he was replying to a shit for brains....shrug.

 

[TrikeKid]

I don't agree with the if you draw, you MUST fire, life is not as black and white as that. I have "brandished" a weapon if the definition of brandish was have it visible and not shooting anyone. I can't think of any situation where you'd be able to defend shooting someone while they were being compliant.

My folks live way out in the sticks, end of a dead end road but the driveway is clearly a driveway and is marked no trespassing. Twice that I can recall when I lived there I caught someone driving through the gate and past the house and up behind my dad's shop. Not knowing who they were or what they were after I grabbed a gun before I walked out the door. Never ended up shooting anyone, but being that I had a shotgun in my hands they were well aware that I was armed and they got the fuck back off the property in a hurry.

 

[arse_sidewards]

It's all escalation of force. Drawing your weapon is an escalation of force. If that causes the situation to deescalate, why escalate again?

Agree here.

 

[michael.gonzalez]

I thought you were laughing at the fact that it was silly for me to think that my life was in danger with an aggressive pitbull.

Show me on the doll where he hurt you.

Sounds like he didn't so much as touch you but I guess you felt your life was threatened enough to brandish your weapon hence this whole thread.

Control your fear next time maybe?

Makes me wonder what other "aggressive" situations would make you pull your gun from your holster because you felt your life was in danger.

 

[[memphis]]

I agree a weapon can deescalate a situation. You took a level 2-3 situation to level 15. I do not think an unholstered = discharge required.

It’s kind of like pistol whipping a baby for crying

 

[KarlVP]

According to Massad Ayoob, there are millions of situations per year where simply having or brandishing a weapon has de-escalated a situation.

 

[woods]

Makes me wonder what other "aggressive" situations would make you pull your gun from your holster because you felt your life was in danger.

Well, this is one:

(off leash)

Don't see how that's a 2-3 situation, but to each their own.

 

[MuntCuffin]

Would have done the same. Fuck shitty dog owners.

 

[michael.gonzalez]

Definitely not a Level 15. Lol. Was he gnawing on your arm or femur?

 

[Crashhawk]

Here's something I've wondered about for a while, what good does showing a gun to a dog do? Does the dog recognize and fear a firearm? Would a stick be just as effective?

I understand that in your situation it was a "just incase" thing, and it seemed to have the desired effect on the owner.

 

[woods]

Here's something I've wondered about for a while, what good does showing a gun to a dog do? Does the dog recognize and fear a firearm? Would a stick be just as effective?

I understand that in your situation it was a "just incase" thing, and it seemed to have the desired effect on the owner.

This was my intent. To show the owner I wasn't fucking around.

 

[45acp]

Here's something I've wondered about for a while, what good does showing a gun to a dog do? Does the dog recognize and fear a firearm? Would a stick be just as effective?

I understand that in your situation it was a "just incase" thing, and it seemed to have the desired effect on the owner.

It doesn't do anything. You pull the gun certain you're about to kill the dog, then are pleasantly surprised when the owner is able to get it under control with vocal commands. The dog doesn't know what the gun is nor does it care.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

They're taking the "don't pull it unless you plan to fire" rule way too seriously. I hate black and white rules like this because there is always exceptions.

You probably could have handled the situation a little differently, yelled for the guy to get his dog. but, I wasn't there, so who am I to judge your decision, the end result was as ideal, so whatever.

pulling a gun in a road rage situation is pretty dumb. for 1 99% of road rage is just people acting tough because they're in their protective bubble of their car. You never know what someone else is capable of, flashing your gun just to flex nuts could result in them pulling one and actually firing, or running you off the road. most road rage can be avoided by simply slowing down or pulling over.

I think the rule is don't pull a gun of you aren't prepared to fire. As in, don't just pull it out assuming it's going to de-escalate the situation because the other guy might take it as an excuse to pull his and fire. Which brings up a good point, what if the dog owner had pulled the a gun?

 

[M92PV4U]

Definitely not a Level 15. Lol. Was he gnawing on your arm or femur?

So wait until the aggressive dog latches on to you to defend yourself?
Obviously the op was scared of the dog which he doesn't know and is acting aggressive towards him. It's real for the op not the dog owner he didn't give a fuck until he saw the guy, dog owner is a dumbass that got the rude awakening to what happens to aggressive dogs.

 

[michael.gonzalez]

Obviously the op was scared of the dog

Yes

 

[Crashhawk]

This was my intent. To show the owner I wasn't fucking around.

Sounds Like it worked.

I love dogs and hate shitty owners. I'd have probably done the same thing in the situation as you described it. I got chewed up pretty bad by a chow when I was about 13, just decided to snap and try and eat me while a cousin and I were playing in his yard. It'd break my heart to shoot a dog for just doing what dogs do, but I ain't about to be a chew toy.

 

[DWT]

Here's something I've wondered about for a while, what good does showing a gun to a dog do? Does the dog recognize and fear a firearm? Would a stick be just as effective?

I understand that in your situation it was a "just incase" thing, and it seemed to have the desired effect on the owner.

The desired effect was had with the owner for sure. If the dog decided to follow through with it's threat it's a whole lot easier and quicker to pull the trigger than unholster the weapon and then fire.

 

[Crashhawk]

Definitely not a Level 15. Lol. Was he gnawing on your arm or femur?

Do you feel like you could effectively draw and discharge your weapon while a large breed dog chews on your arm? At what point in an attack do you feel justified to pull?

 

[ExWrench]

Directly on topic:

Drawing / displaying a weapon when presented with perceived threat of death or grave bodily injury is entirely justified.
You do not need to sustain injury (or death) before you may defend yourself.

Not using that presented weapon if the threat diminishes or disappears is also justified and often appropriate.
Presenting the means by which to defend yourself does not obligate you to inflict injury unless necessary.


Off-topic but relevant within this thread:

michael.gobblesbalz is a certifiable full-on dipshit, and the entire list of suspects for his paternal chromosome contributor should be ashamed and perhaps sterilized

 

[Lawless]

Any time you draw your weapon you instantly fire, hmmmm wouldn't that make every police shooting justifiable? How could they ever have a bad shoot, after all they drew their weapon so they HAD to fire it. I wonder if the mod on the other site would agree with that one.

 

[Etyler2]

Whoever said draw, brandish, and FIRE no matter what is a fucking idiot.

 

[Deuce 40s]

Control your fear next time maybe?

This is your solution? All the bull shit you spew in this thread and this is what you end up with. Controlling your fear has fuck all to do with a dog attack.

If a dog is a true threat, and it sounds like it was in this case, pull the gun and let the dog or the owner decide what you do with it. Fear drops dramatically when you have a gun between you and an attacking dog.